PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[SEFTA]

I just hope they push the envelope here. Thank goodness that casino fell thru.
How about a 900 footer for this transit hub with a hotel and a residential tower

https://www.flickr.com/photos/144862154@N03/shares/5Na7U1

[City Wide]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

I think we could be getting a 600 footer there, fingers crossed

Build a 600 footer, that's crazy talk. After all "there is a need for parking". With that logic 8th & Market is going to be a parking lot for a long time.

I'd love to know what the dollar amount the City values/appraises this lot at, and what the real estate taxes are.

[Boku]

Originally Posted by City Wide

Build a 600 footer, that's crazy talk. After all "there is a need for parking". With that logic 8th & Market is going to be a parking lot for a long time.

I'd love to know what the dollar amount the City values/appraises this lot at, and what the real estate taxes are.

600-foot tall parking garage, it's the best of both worlds!

[Londonee]

600footer? Nah. We need to Tony Robbins this — into a SuperTall. If we ever want that world-class, CHicago Style skyline - then this lot NEEDS to be something dramatic - over 1000ft.

[PHL10]

Originally Posted by City Wide

I'd love to know what the dollar amount the City values/appraises this lot at, and what the real estate taxes are.

According to the OPA, the value is at $18m but scheduled to jump to $36m next year. So the current annual taxes should be about $250,000.

[mcgrath618]

This is literally the most criminally underused space in all of the city. Like seriously, not one, but THREE subways plus who knows how many busses.

[PhilliesPhan]

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

This is literally the most criminally underused space in all of the city. Like seriously, not one, but THREE subways plus who knows how many busses.

Not to mention 12 of the 13 Regional Rail lines (the Cynwyd Line originates at Suburban) running in all directions to differing suburban destinations!

Here's what will likely play out in the coming years: as the property undergoes the new assessment method, it will continually increase in value. This is especially true given the level of investment that the Market East submarket is experiencing, along with everything in the pipeline. Eventually, the margins made from keeping it a parking lot will diminish as property tax payments become higher. What is the best way to generate income on a high-value, well-connected (transit-wise), high square footage lot? Developing the lot to the point where rental income will be enough to generate margins large enough to satisfy investors/owners. If the demand is there and a mix of uses is incorporated, a supertall shouldn't be out of the realm of possibility in order to justify the cost of the land.

[thisisforreal]

Anybody know what's going on right here? There's a core that 5 stories high already.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by thisisforreal

Anybody know what's going on right here? There's a core that 5 stories high already.

Penn Medicine Center for Healthcare Technology... 18 floors, 266 feet. There's a thread for it here:

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=224036

[City Wide]

Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan

Not to mention 12 of the 13 Regional Rail lines (the Cynwyd Line originates at Suburban) running in all directions to differing suburban destinations!

Here's what will likely play out in the coming years: as the property undergoes the new assessment method, it will continually increase in value. This is especially true given the level of investment that the Market East submarket is experiencing, along with everything in the pipeline. Eventually, the margins made from keeping it a parking lot will diminish as property tax payments become higher. What is the best way to generate income on a high-value, well-connected (transit-wise), high square footage lot? Developing the lot to the point where rental income will be enough to generate margins large enough to satisfy investors/owners. If the demand is there and a mix of uses is incorporated, a supertall shouldn't be out of the realm of possibility in order to justify the cost of the land.

What you're saying makes sense, but there's one piece that you left out----is there something/somebody willing to pay $40 min. per sq.ft to fill all the space that any tall building is going to create? Yes taxes will quite likely continue to go up, probably to the point where income from the parking operation doesn't cover them, but making up the difference out of pocket or just putting up a small building (I hope not) would be more cost effective then building 100's of thousands of square feet of unused floor space.

I'm still waiting and hoping to see what might get built on top of whatever the old Gallery is now being called. Since the foundations were constructed in a way to allow future highrise towers to built on top of them, that would mean no complicated and time consuming and costly site work (think back to how long the W site took to actually get to a point where they could start building) which I'm assuming would be a big cost advantage over a building that would be constructed on a unimproved site, such as 8th & Market.

[SEFTA]

I think we all have high hopes for this lot. I'm kind of glad it sat empty now perhaps it will ride the wave of this area's new and rising popularity. The buzz of this area is at least national and I'm hoping it attracts a world class visionary developer that realizes it's importance. It will be the eastern center of Center City. I hope they treat it as such. It does seem that the time is now.

[jjv007]

Couldn't multiple towers fit on the lot rather than just one?

[Mr Saturn64]

Originally Posted by jjv007

Couldn't multiple towers fit on the lot rather than just one?

Probably, but I'd rather one big-— skyscraper than a few.

Originally Posted by SEFTA

I think we all have high hopes for this lot. I'm kind of glad it sat empty now perhaps it will ride the wave of this area's new and rising popularity. The buzz of this area is at least national and I'm hoping it attracts a world class visionary developer that realizes it's importance. It will be the eastern center of Center City. I hope they treat it as such. It does seem that the time is now.

That is the best case solution. While some people's perspectives are different, I'm honestly hoping this will at least be taller than CTC. I don't know how realistic that is, but if we're getting something of that caliber, it's going to be on that lot.

[summersm343]

We're not getting a Supertall at 8th & Market... that's unrealistic. I wouldn't expect it. The next Supertalls in Philadelphia will be around 30th Street Station in the form of Schuylkill Yards and the capping of the Powelton Yards.

However, I would say it's realistic to expect something the size of FMC Tower 8th & Market. I think on the portion of the lot facing Market Street, we could expect a 700-800 footer, and a 500-600 footer. This will be a mix of office, residential, hotel and retail in two towers. On the lot at 8th and Chestnut, we can realistically expect a 300-400 foot residential tower.

[SEFTA]

That's exactly what I'd like to see there.

[Gonzo the Great]

Originally Posted by summersm343

We're not getting a Supertall at 8th & Market... that's unrealistic. I wouldn't expect it. The next Supertalls in Philadelphia will be around 30th Street Station in the form of Schuylkill Yards and the capping of the Powelton Yards.

However, I would say it's realistic to expect something the size of FMC Tower 8th & Market. I think on the portion of the lot facing Market Street, we could expect a 700-800 footer, and a 500-600 footer. This will be a mix of office, residential, hotel and retail in two towers. On the lot at 8th and Chestnut, we can realistically expect a 300-400 foot residential tower.

I'm sorry I can't remember what mid rise department store was located at 8th.&Market before it became the mine boggling waste land glutinous joke that it has been since
the 8o's... ?... 70's... ?... or when ever , but a lot of contributors to this site have made their feelings known ( me being one ) . I think there is more in play here than what
meets the eye .
I fear this great location is going to be held hostage for longer than the next three years , and for a — load more money .
Your expectations , desires , dreams of something in the above 300 ft. range are IMO ,... a bridge too far . If you see the present Market St. East projects ( near PSFS , Loews )
The second tower is topping out at 284' ....... Maybe we should all plan on something around that tall ..... if and when anything gets built there in the next 5/10 years .

I'm just as pissed as anyone else hoping for big beautiful things at this corner ..... but no-one with inside information gives a — about how pissed I am .....

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by Gonzo the Great

I'm sorry I can't remember what mid rise department store was located at 8th.&Market before it became the mine boggling waste land glutinous joke that it has been since
the 8o's... ?... 70's... ?... or when ever , but a lot of contributors to this site have made their feelings known ( me being one ) . I think there is more in play here than what
meets the eye .
I fear this great location is going to be held hostage for longer than the next three years , and for a — load more money .
Your expectations , desires , dreams of something in the above 300 ft. range are IMO ,... a bridge too far . If you see the present Market St. East projects ( near PSFS , Loews )
The second tower is topping out at 284' ....... Maybe we should all plan on something around that tall ..... if and when anything gets built there in the next 5/10 years .

I'm just as pissed as anyone else hoping for big beautiful things at this corner ..... but no-one with inside information gives a — about how pissed I am .....

The residential towers in the East Market development topping out at 284 feet means absolutely nothing. There are plenty of apartment towers built in Philadelphia over the past few years that are indeed in the 300-400 foot range. Those include 2116 Chestnut which is 379 feet tall, the Alexander at 1601 Vine which is 370 feet tall, and Evo which is 430 feet tall. 1919 Market is also 337 feet tall. 3601 Market is 320 feet tall.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by summersm343

The residential towers in the East Market development topping out at 284 feet means absolutely nothing. There are plenty of apartment towers built in Philadelphia over the past few years that are indeed in the 300-400 foot range. Those include 2116 Chestnut which is 379 feet tall, the Alexander at 1601 Vine which is 370 feet tall, and Evo which is 430 feet tall. 1919 Market is also 337 feet tall. 3601 Market is 320 feet tall.

He's likely just referring to East Market. But even so, I think this location is ripe for bigger (and taller) things. There is a tall tower proposed at 13th and Market (albeit not residential), we've got the East Market development, FOP, the revitalization of Chestnut Street, filling in of Washington Square area and Old City further down, etc...the climate is markedly different than it was just a few years ago.

[Gonzo the Great]

Originally Posted by jsbrook

He's likely just referring to East Market. But even so, I think this location is ripe for bigger (and taller) things. There is a tall tower proposed at 13th and Market (albeit not residential), we've got the East Market development, FOP, the revitalization of Chestnut Street, filling in of Washington Square area and Old City further down, etc...the climate is markedly different than it was just a few years ago.

Yep , you are correct sir . My statement ( argument ) was with regard to East Market . In this case , 8th.& Market in particular .... Also , I
wasn't referring to a particular type of high rise , office , condo , retail or whatever . None of summers above mentioned projects are any
where near East Market , let alone 8th, & Market ..... But I'm a forgiving type of soul .......

PS ; Darren Dalton .... 1-3-62 / 8-6-17 R.I.P

[Jawnadelphia]

Rooftop amenities are coming along! One Franklin Tower conversion:




I second Gonzo's reply... RIP Dutch Daulton.