Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by GeeCee

What are they going to do with OMC2 after they finish refurbishing the Mk Is?

hopefully they don't sell it... again. then rent it out... again. then buy it... again. they better keep it.

[Waders]

Looks like the Metrotown station West Stationhouse construction is almost done. I can see it is in the final preparation and clean up mode. I think it will be opened in August before the school year starts.

[red-paladin]

Originally Posted by GeeCee

What are they going to do with OMC2 after they finish refurbishing the Mk Is?

Maybe by then then white MK IIs will need refurbishing.

[cganuelas1995]

There's a white tent up at the Canada Line OMC. What's that all about?

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by Waders

Looks like the Metrotown station West Stationhouse construction is almost done. I can see it is in the final preparation and clean up mode. I think it will be opened in August before the school year starts.

It's opening today at 10am!

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Already sent my e-mail insisting on the importance of grade separation for rail.

Encourage you all to do the same.

I've sent off an e-mail too.

[nname]

2016 Transit Service Review is now available.

Probably the stat that interests people here the most - SkyTrain station entry+exit:



Data from June-Dec 2016; Dec only for Evergreen stations.

[ilikeredheads]

Top 10 routes by annual boardings:
99, 41, 20, 49, 25, 16, 9, 135, 3, 106

Bottom 10:
C84, C87, C49, C89, N15, 608, 242, C48, 606, and 259 taking the biggest L

Most overcrowded routes:
99, 25, 49, 135, 319, 041, 351, 502, 555, 130

[ClaytonA]

Originally Posted by ilikeredheads

Top 10 routes by annual boardings:
99, 41, 20, 49, 25, 16, 9, 135, 3, 106

Bottom 10:
C84, C87, C49, C89, N15, 608, 242, C48, 606, and 259 taking the biggest L

Most overcrowded routes:
99, 25, 49, 135, 319, 041, 351, 502, 555, 130

How are we accommodating current demand never mind growth pressures?

Broadway extension for part of 99 B Line and 25 (massive demand for Broadway all the way to UBC, but has raised service on parallel routes)
41 Ave B Line for 49 and 41
Hastings B-Line for 135 (IIRC during the Olypmics the Hastings dedicated lane had the greatest time savings)

[dothediu]

Originally Posted by nname

2016 Transit Service Review is now available.

Probably the stat that interests people here the most - SkyTrain station entry+exit:



Data from June-Dec 2016; Dec only for Evergreen stations.

That's an interesting graph. I had no idea the Expo Line dwarfs the Millenium line ridership by so much.

I wonder if Lougheed town centre station would be lower this year, since some of those users were transferring from buses before Evergreen Line came in.

[Aroundtheworld]

Originally Posted by dothediu

That's an interesting graph. I had no idea the Expo Line dwarfs the Millenium line ridership by so much.

I wonder if Lougheed town centre station would be lower this year, since some of those users were transferring from buses before Evergreen Line came in.

Thanks for posting this. One thing that pops out is that there has been considerable ridership growth on the Canada Line since the last review. It also seems that bus ridership has contributed heavily to certain stations like 22nd Ave, Scott Road and Coquitlam Central - areas that aren't very built up.

[xd_1771]

Was the 555 already on the top 10 most overcrowded routes list before? I feel this is really significant, it's a good show of how you can get modal shift onto transit by providing a fast, efficient service.

One other thing that might be important to note is the year-over-year growth rate in bus routes. Some news outlets have been raving about the large ridership increases on the 96 B-Line. I can see why they'd take it as a demand-precursor to rapid transit, but in my experience as a daily rider the increase probably also had a lot to do with the introduction of the XDE60s and the King George Blvd XBLs.

The 96 does run on existing corridors and it seems plausible that the switch would have a lot to do with 320/501/321 riders just switching because of the far superior buses, and also riders on the cancelled 590 switching to 96. It is noteworthy that the reported overcrowding on the 96 in the report is still 0% at all times of day.

[ClaytonA]

Average 99 bus trip length is 12.4km versus 13.4km total route length; that says something. Arbutus is 6.1km. Little ridership not going full distance. Millenium Line extension really needs to go the full 13km, not 6.1km. UBC population up ~3500 between 2011 and 2016 per BC census to ~16,000. Broadway extension to UBC can't come soon enough. Big development and population increase coming to the Jericho Lands. https://web.archive.org/web/201707271847...ho-lands-purchase-first-nation-1.3529169

Interestingly the 99 average speed is down even more from 22.2km/h to 20.7km/h and ridership has only slight increases on the 99 (due to capacity constraints). The parallel bus routes 25 and 84 have seen ridership increases of 3000 and 1500 since 2012. Route 84 makes a lot of sense too as the trip time is the same and there's much less overcrowding, just 12min frequency instead of 5min. Phase 1 expansion may add more buses to these two routes. Add these three routes together, 99+84+25=90,000 daily boardings, assuming ridership not sucked onto Broadway Skytrain on 25 and 84 is offset by ridership attracted from 41 and 49. Canada Line ridership doubled when it opened, so 250,000 boardings seems achievable when built right to UBC (compare to the 80,000 George Massey trips today and forecast 85,000 with a toll in 2040). https://web.archive.org/web/201707271840...raffic-Forecasts-Steer-Davies-Gleave.pdf

[ClaytonA]

Also what's the fastest growing mode share? What also has been getting dribs and drabs of investment? Bicycling. Pretty easy to do an average of 20km/h with stop lights, but that average distance of 12.4km is ~40 minutes each way cycling indicates it's a bit on the far side for cycling (sweet spot is 2-7km). This time of year it's really pleasant and great to multi-task by getting some exercise instead of sitting/standing in a bus. Google says 49min on transit versus 59min on bicycle Commercial-Broadway to Wesbrook Mall 13.4km.

[Geof]

Originally Posted by nname

Probably the stat that interests people here the most - SkyTrain station entry+exit

The biggest thing that jumps out from the report is the leap in ridership south of the Fraser: a whopping 10% more boardings, accounting for nearly half of the entire region's year-over-year increase. There is real demand for service down there.

The other item that I found interesting is the weekday per-station hourly entry/exit graphs suggest which stations are in bedroom communities, which are employment centres, and which are relatively balanced. For example, Joyce shows a lot of morning entries and afternoon exits, presumably by commuters heading out to work. Metrotown has a much more balanced pattern, with entries and exits tracking each other through the day.

Various factors might muddy the waters, such as transfer points (e.g. Lougheed), shopping (Metrotown), or temporary or seasonal work (construction workers arriving at Brentwood in the morning). Still, this is probably a decent indicator of where transit-oriented development is and is not creating complete neighbourhoods.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

Was the 555 already on the top 10 most overcrowded routes list before? I feel this is really significant, it's a good show of how you can get modal shift onto transit by providing a fast, efficient service.

One other thing that might be important to note is the year-over-year growth rate in bus routes. Some news outlets have been raving about the large ridership increases on the 96 B-Line. I can see why they'd take it as a demand-precursor to rapid transit, but in my experience as a daily rider the increase probably also had a lot to do with the introduction of the XDE60s and the King George Blvd XBLs.

All those major bus routes, even the future b-lines, can be seen as placeholders for future rapid transit lines. I'm not sure about anyone else, but I can see the Broadway Subway in maybe 2 phases, and as a loop, with the completed Millennium line going from either Lafarge-Lake Douglas or even the future Port Coquitlam terminus (due to the roughed in spur preparation near Coquitlam Central station), all the way along the existing Millennium line, along Broadway, to UBC station, with a few stations along Wesbrook Mall, then down along 41st Avenue, continuing all the way to Joyce-Collingwood station. This could happen in the future, maybe in 3, or even 2, decades.

[Dave2]

Throwback Thursday. Jack Webster rides Skytrain 1986

https://youtu.be/AdSzRQSljnw

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by nname

2016 Transit Service Review is now available.

I am soo geeking out over this

Originally Posted by dothediu

That's an interesting graph. I had no idea the Expo Line dwarfs the Millenium line ridership by so much.

The 2015 info showed that, and the times I rode the Millennium Line (pre-Evergreen) I never had trouble getting a seat, even during rush hour. Expo is sardine city during rush hour and there are times you can't get a seat during mid-day.

Originally Posted by ClaytonA

Average 99 bus trip length is 12.4km versus 13.4km total route length; that says something. Arbutus is 6.1km. Little ridership not going full distance. Millenium Line extension really needs to go the full 13km, not 6.1km. UBC population up ~3500 between 2011 and 2016 per BC census to ~16,000. Broadway extension to UBC can't come soon enough. Big development and population increase coming to the Jericho Lands.

It comes down to 'show me the money'. Building that subway is going to take time and a lot of money. Yes the federal and provincial governments will pay their share but where is the local share going to come from?

Originally Posted by Geof

The biggest thing that jumps out from the report is the leap in ridership south of the Fraser: a whopping 10% more boardings, accounting for nearly half of the entire region's year-over-year increase. There is real demand for service down there.

...and yet the amount of service South of Fraser is much less than what CoV gets.

[nname]

Originally Posted by Sheba

...and yet the amount of service South of Fraser is much less than what CoV gets.

... and the amount of riders is even less compared to CoV. Slightly less than 1/2 of the service, but much less than 1/3 of the ridership. The gap is slowly closing though...

Divide bus ridership by service hour in appendix A to calculate the boarding per hour for each region:

Vancouver	88.6
Burnaby		70.4
Richmond	59.0
North Shore	56.7
South of Fraser	55.7
Northeast Sect	45.5
South Delta	40.0
Ridge Meadows	36.9

Originally Posted by Sheba

The 2015 info showed that, and the times I rode the Millennium Line (pre-Evergreen) I never had trouble getting a seat, even during rush hour. Expo is sardine city during rush hour and there are times you can't get a seat during mid-day.

And so they literally cut the M-Line capacity by half during off-peak, and about 10% during peak hours. Try finding a seat between Brentwood and Commercial-Broadway now...

[xd_1771]

One point of interest for me is that we finally have some numbers for station boardings at Bridgeport Station. While it is 4th among Canada Line stations, the amount of boardings that Bridgeport supplies to the system is a far cry from the suggestion by some individuals (especially those of the anti-SkyTrain type ) that the truncation of SoF bus routes at Bridgeport is where much of the Canada Line's ridership is coming from.

11,000 or so out of the Canada Line's 130,000+ daily boardings means that the vast majority of people aren't coming from the SoF buses - they're coming from other places if not along the line itself. The SoF buses ridership is a drop in the bucket.