Atlantic Canada airport thread

[wave46]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

It's sad to see the 737 go, but I guess we are trading it for increased overall capacity and greater flight frequency. Aswave46 stated, this will reduce connection times at Pearson and generally make WestJet more competitive with Air Canada.

If volumes increase at YQM, I wonder if WestJet or Air Canada will simply add more turboprop flights, or will they bring back some jet service in the future.......

Probably a bit of column A and column B. For the peak time flights AC might go up to a CRJ900, E190 or A319 and Westjet a 737. For the rest of the day, they might go with an additional Q400 run.

I think the availability of slots/gates at Pearson will be the determining factor on how each airlines chooses to tackle any increased demand.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by PEI highway guy

I Also wonder if West jet is redistributing the 737's to larger/ busier routes, but still increasing seat capacity in medium sized airports/ routes such as Moncton.

That's undoubtedly it. They want to keep a similar number of seats on a given route but distribute them throughout the day.

When Westjet Encore launched, it was a good way to maintain service to smaller/midsized airports without completely destroying frequency. Outside of the major cities, Canada's population simply can't support a A320/737 to every destination.

[J81]

This is not an increase in capacity for westjet. Remember there was a daily flight to Hamilton as well as daily to YYZ which went 2X daily in the summer. So today even with 3X Q400 we're still at half the capacity as just a few years ago. Not sure what is behind this reduction as every flight ive been on was full. Airlines just dont like Moncton.

[stephan.richard]

Originally Posted by J81

This is not an increase in capacity for westjet. Remember there was a daily flight to Hamilton as well as daily to YYZ which went 2X daily in the summer. So today even with 3X Q400 we're still at half the capacity as just a few years ago. Not sure what is behind this reduction as every flight ive been on was full. Airlines just dont like Moncton.

.

I agree and thats why i prefer to take my business to Halifax or Bangor for jet service. I find that Moncton we have lost our edge by competing with two marginal airports that are within less than an hour and half from each other.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by J81

This is not an increase in capacity for westjet. Remember there was a daily flight to Hamilton as well as daily to YYZ which went 2X daily in the summer. So today even with 3X Q400 we're still at half the capacity as just a few years ago. Not sure what is behind this reduction as every flight ive been on was full. Airlines just dont like Moncton.

It's not half capacity. The 737-300 seats upwards of about 140, therefore 2x daily to central Canada (Pearson & Munro) would be about 280. The Q400 seats about 90, therefore 3x daily to Pearson is about 270. As such, it's essentially a wash.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by stephan.richard

.

I agree and thats why i prefer to take my business to Halifax or Bangor for jet service. I find that Moncton we have lost our edge by competing with two marginal airports that are within less than an hour and half from each other.

Jets may be faster and sexier, but this shouldn't be the only reason to take your business to Halifax. Usually it's more convenient to use your local airport (unless routing and price is better at the neighbouring competing airport). It takes time and money to drive to Halifax or Bangor. Also, if you place a personal embargo on YQM, you just deflate passenger numbers at the airport and paradoxically decrease the chances of ever getting jet service at YQM back again.......

[q12]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

It's not half capacity. The 737-300 seats upwards of about 140, therefore 2x daily to central Canada (Pearson & Munro) would be about 280. The Q400 seats about 90, therefore 3x daily to Pearson is about 270. As such, it's essentially a wash.

Westjet has a few Boeing 737-600 that seat 113, otherwise its a mix of 737-700 that seat 130 or Boeing 737-800 that seat 168.

Q400 seats 78 not 90. The q400 is a nice aircraft unfortunately there are no business class seats with Air Canada Express on the Q400. It is also slower than jet aircraft. For example Halifax to Ottawa on a CRJ-705 is 1h 40m on a q400 it is 2h 05m.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by q12

Westjet has a few Boeing 737-600 that seat 113, otherwise its a mix of 737-700 that seat 130 or Boeing 737-800 that seat 168.

Q400 seats 78 not 90. The q400 is a nice aircraft unfortunately there are no business class seats with Air Canada Express on the Q400. It is also slower than jet aircraft. For example Halifax to Ottawa on a CRJ-705 is 1h 40m on a q400 it is 2h 05m.

OK - Thanks for that. I didn't look on the WestJet site regarding configurations, I just looked at some generic stuff on the internet. The facts however remain about the same. The shift to Q400 out of Moncton represents a capacity shift and not a capacity reduction. The trade off is more frequent connections vs a slower aircraft. The trip to Toronto will be 25 minutes longer on the Q400 - not a tremendous hardship.

As I've said before, the length of the flight means less to me than the hassle of getting to the airport and the stressfulness of the airport experience. That's why if my terminal destination is Toronto, I will fly Porter 100% of the time. Billy Bishop is a pleasant little airport right in downtown Toronto with a free shuttle service to the financial district. I don't care that Porter has a pit stop in Ottawa along the way. The convenience of Billy Bishop is to great to pass up. Porter has free booze too!!!

[J81]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

It's not half capacity. The 737-300 seats upwards of about 140, therefore 2x daily to central Canada (Pearson & Munro) would be about 280. The Q400 seats about 90, therefore 3x daily to Pearson is about 270. As such, it's essentially a wash.

The q400 seats 78. 737-700 seats 130, 737-800 seats 168. The afternoon flight to YHM was on a -700 and the evening flight to YYZ also a -700. The AM flight to YYZ was an -800 so a total of 428 seats in the summer months. We have 234 now. So yes essentially half!

[q12]

If you want to fly on a jet out of Moncton Air Canada Express has 50 seat CRJ100 service on some flights from Moncton to Montreal and the Moncton to Ottawa route.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by J81

The q400 seats 78. 737-700 seats 130, 737-800 seats 168. The afternoon flight to YHM was on a -700 and the evening flight to YYZ also a -700. The AM flight to YYZ was an -800 so a total of 428 seats in the summer months. We have 234 now. So yes essentially half!

I'm not nearly as much of an airline geek as some people on SSP, so I will defer to my betters WRT this discussion.

I will only make a couple more comment regarding WestJet's capacity on it's Moncton routes before signing off.

- The flight to JC Munro Airport in Hamilton was only ever seasonal (at least in recent years) and was only during the summer months, but yes it used a 737.
- I'm pretty sure that when WestJet instituted it's second daily flight to Pearson last year that it was on a Q400, and not a 737.
- I was always under the assumption that the 737s used by WestJet out of Moncton were amongst the smaller ones in their fleet. I could be wrong on this though.

Given this, I find your estimate of 428 seats daily being replaced by 234 seats daily a little hard to believe. For most of the year, there were only two daily WJ flights out of Moncton (excluding their winter services to Orlando and Cancun), and one of those I believe was on a Q400. As such, I stand by my estimate of about 240 seats daily (most of the year) to Toronto, therefore the move to 3x daily Q400 service year round to Pearson is not much of a change.

[J81]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I'm not nearly as much of an airline geek as some people on SSP, so I will defer to my betters WRT this discussion.

I will only make a couple more comment regarding WestJet's capacity on it's Moncton routes before signing off.

- The flight to JC Munro Airport in Hamilton was only ever seasonal (at least in recent years) and was only during the summer months, but yes it used a 737.
- I'm pretty sure that when WestJet instituted it's second daily flight to Pearson last year that it was on a Q400, and not a 737.
- I was always under the assumption that the 737s used by WestJet out of Moncton were amongst the smaller ones in their fleet.

Given this, I find your estimate of 428 seats daily being replaced by 234 seats daily a little hard to believe. For most of the year, there were only two daily WJ flights out of Moncton (excluding their winter services to Orlando and Cancun), and one of those I believe was on a Q400. As such, I stand by my estimate of about 240 seats daily (most of the year) to Toronto, therefore the move to 3x daily Q400 service year round to Pearson is not much of a change.

Since you already admit you arent an airplane geek and really are just going on assumptions then i suggest you take note of the information provided to you by a self proclaimed avgeek who pays very close attention to what goes on at the moncton airport and has done so for 35 years. The facts i provided are just that! I didnt say they were from last year or even the year before. My point was to illustrate how Westjet has gradually reduced capacity at YQM in recent years compared to years passed. One could probably say the reduction coincided with Westjets entry into YHZ. Before that happened we had Westjet service to gander 3x per week and St johns 4x per week with both of those return flights continuing to YYZ as the second daily trip YQM-YYZ. We also had weekly service to Edmonton along with the original daily trip to YHM which was the original westjet route to moncton from 1998 i believe. There was also saturday service to Ottawa.

But yes last year there was no service to YHM and the 2nd YYZ flight was a Q400. But going back further and looking at westjets existence here there is a glaring reduction in capacity

So my numbers regarding the capacity difference are spot on for the summer season compared to years passed

[MonctonRad]

I remember the Edmonton service (via Hamilton). I used it once.

I don't recall the Newfoundland services, but I will defer to you. How many years were these Newfoundland flights operational?

I do remember that WestJet came to Moncton before Halifax, and there were hopes that Moncton would become their eastern hub (like JC Munro in Hamilton was their initial central Canadian hub). Alas, with time and with WJ becoming increasingly mainstream, there was a drift towards making Pearson and Halifax their eastern hubs instead.

[J81]

http://www.airlinecrew.net/vbulletin/archive/index.php/t-166170.html

Newfoundland services began in 2003 and lasted 2 years i believe. Also in 2003 the Edmonton flight was direct on sundays only and they entered Halifax in late February. The year round service to Hamilton ended in 2010 and became summer seasonal the following year lasting until 2014 i think. Cant find the article i was looking for with the date. In any event i remember going to the airport in 2003 and there being 2 westjet 737s, and a air canada 737 parked at the gates along with CRJs from AC. Everything was jet service.

On top of all this there were also flights to Paris and Hannover germany with Corsair and Condor. Corsair flew their 747s here once a week in the summer. Always fun to watch!

[stephan.richard]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Jets may be faster and sexier, but this shouldn't be the only reason to take your business to Halifax. Usually it's more convenient to use your local airport (unless routing and price is better at the neighbouring competing airport). It takes time and money to drive to Halifax or Bangor. Also, if you place a personal embargo on YQM, you just deflate passenger numbers at the airport and paradoxically decrease the chances of ever getting jet service at YQM back again.......

The reason why I choose Bangor and Halifax over Moncton often times leads to routing when I go to the USA. My preference when i fly is stick with one common carrier than switch. Also li share the same mutual feeling as my aviation fan here that Moncton at one point had plenty of options and great international service and he forgot the weekly Canada 3000 Boeing 757 service to Paris. I hate that our beloved airport has to play second fiddle to Halifax. If we had more affordable options out of Moncton I would choose the airport.

[J81]

Further to this discussion, Westjets long standing sun flight from Moncton to Cancun which ran from October to may this past winter season will not return as a result of the switch to Encore. They will still offer 1 weekly flight to Orlando on Mondays so i guess theres that...

[stephan.richard]

Originally Posted by J81

Further to this discussion, Westjets long standing sun flight from Moncton to Cancun which ran from October to may this past winter season will not return as a result of the switch to Encore. They will still offer 1 weekly flight to Orlando on Mondays so i guess theres that...

That sux that we are loosing that flight and here we go... I hate that Westjet is doing this to Moncton...

[Shift]

Much prefer the 3x Q400 service over the once a day 737.

As someone who flies to Moncton a couple of times a year, I would never take WestJet because of the timing of their 737 flight - which departed Moncton first thing in the morning at 6am. Nice to see they will offer flights at more reasonable times of the day.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by J81

Further to this discussion, Westjets long standing sun flight from Moncton to Cancun which ran from October to may this past winter season will not return as a result of the switch to Encore. They will still offer 1 weekly flight to Orlando on Mondays so i guess theres that...

Too bad.

Here's the full 2017/18 winter sun destination schedule for YQM:

http://cyqm.ca/wp-content/uploads/2016/0...raire-des-vols-vers-le-sud-2017-2018.pdf

Orlando, Florida - Air Transat, Sunwing, WestJet
Varadero, Cuba - Air Transat, Sunwing
Cancun, Mexico - Air Transat, Sunwing
Punta Cana, DR - Air Transat, Sunwing
Puerto Plata, DR - Sunwing
Montego Bay, Jamaica - Sunwing

[monctonwatch]

What's the possibility of them adding extra south flights? I was planning a trip down south over Christmas and was hoping the sunwing Cancun flight would be back but looks like it's a no go, I know in the past flights were announced mid summer and early fall but I'd like to get the ball rolling as soon as possible. The only option at the moment is a connection via Toronto with westjet but I'd like to avoid connections if possible