The Ugly Canada Thread

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

sounds terrible, right? Like saying the wife 'asked for it', because she was being 'lippy'.

Yep. As someone who has been physically assaulted by a former employer I can say with authority there's no excuse. Did I lip him off? Yeah. But that's no excuse. The guy was in his late 40's and I was still in my mid 20's. It was a seasonal job at a golf course. He accused me of faking a sick day which was untrue and continued his trend of being a general asshole. When I called him out on banging the young twenty something chick on our crew and giving her favourable treatment he went berserk. One of his goons held me from behind while the fucker choked me and ripped my shirt. I ended up getting the summers wages after I left when I spoke to the President of the company. That was an experience I'll never forget. If other people hadn't intervened I'm convinced he would have severely injured or even killed me. No joke.

Oh, and he drove a truck.

[240glt]

I watched a kid get shoved against a wall by his supervisor at McDonalds once. I told the supervisor I saw the whole thing and gave the kid a business card and told him to contact me if he needed a witness. The supervisor was screaming at the kid when I left. Shoulda called the cops

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by lio45

I didn't say that at all. However, I'll say that if people wanted to give more attention to defusing potential road rage incidents we'd probably see less of them. There are many ways to interact with an irrational angry nutcase when you happen to encounter one, and they all have very different outcomes.

While I can appreciate the idea of defusing a situation and would have handled my previous confrontation differently in hindsight, something really rubs me raw when I hear arguments blaming the victim. It's part of the broader conservative self accountability narrative that leads to rape victims never pressing charges.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by 240glt

I watched a kid get shoved against a wall by his supervisor at McDonalds once. I told the supervisor I saw the whole thing and gave the kid a business card and told him to contact me if he needed a witness. The supervisor was screaming at the kid when I left. Shoulda called the cops

You should have.

[WhipperSnapper]

What would the cops do? (if they were to actually show up in a reasonable time) You phone the head office.

[rousseau]

Originally Posted by O-tacular

While I can appreciate the idea of defusing a situation and would have handled my previous confrontation differently in hindsight, something really rubs me raw when I hear arguments blaming the victim. It's part of the broader conservative self accountability narrative that leads to rape victims never pressing charges.

I think this kind of rationale goes too far, though. Of course it's the club-carrying troglodyte's fault. But until the day arrives that there are no more idiots driving cars, it's best not to tempt fate.

On the cycling forums I frequent there's pretty much a consensus on this: No matter how much an asshole that car/truck driver is, no matter how close she/he came to killing you, you should do your best to avoid an escalation or a confrontation. Take a photo, memorize the licence plate, and call the cops after, but don't bang on the guy's window or challenge him to a fight. Because in a contest between a half-ton vehicle and a cyclist, it's pretty obvious who will win, regardless of how right you are and how wrong the driver is.

I myself fail to live up to this ideal. It's difficult in the moment, with the adrenaline raging, not to want to lash out at the ignorant or belligerent moron who so cavalierly passed you too closely or cut you off, etc.

The club-wielding low-life is deranged, and he should be convicted of a serious crime and spend time in prison (he won't, but he should). But it would be useful to know exactly what precipitated the confrontation, including how the cyclist handled it. With the notoriety of this case, it could be a "teachable moment." Most of the lesson should focus on driving properly around cyclists, but some of it should be on what cyclists can do to avoid letting a situation get out of control.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

What would the cops do? (if they were to actually show up in a reasonable time) You phone the head office.

Actually that's a good point. Cops treated me like a suspect when I tried to report my boss. They said it was his word vs mine. Only thing that could help on that front would be if you got cellphone video or something.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by rousseau

I think this kind of rationale goes too far, though. Of course it's the club-carrying troglodyte's fault. But until the day arrives that there are no more idiots driving cars, it's best not to tempt fate.

On the cycling forums I frequent there's pretty much a consensus on this: No matter how much an asshole that car/truck driver is, no matter how close she/he came to killing you, you should do your best to avoid an escalation or a confrontation. Take a photo, memorize the licence plate, and call the cops after, but don't bang on the guy's window or challenge him to a fight. Because in a contest between a half-ton vehicle and a cyclist, it's pretty obvious who will win, regardless of how right you are and how wrong the driver is.

I myself fail to live up to this ideal. It's difficult in the moment, with the adrenaline raging, not to want to lash out at the ignorant or belligerent moron who so cavalierly passed you too closely or cut you off, etc.

The club-wielding low-life is deranged, and he should be convicted of a serious crime and spend time in prison (he won't, but he should). But it would be useful to know exactly what precipitated the confrontation, including how the cyclist handled it. With the notoriety of this case, it could be a "teachable moment." Most of the lesson should focus on driving properly around cyclists, but some of it should be on what cyclists can do to avoid letting a situation get out of control.

Oh I'm not defending the rights of a cyclist to be the aggressor. I've seen guys on bikes kick cars and flip the bird to drivers. That's no different from an asshole behind the wheel and just ends up fueling conflict.

There's no doubt if a psycho with a club steps out of a truck you should turn tail and try to get away from them. There's no defending the psycho with the club though by mimizing how guilty they are through suggestions that the beating victim should have done more to escape. I've been in situations like this before and shock can make you freeze. You don't expect it to escalate the way it does and it almost feels like a dream.

[SignalHillHiker]

Going back through some old pictures trying to find a particular one for a friend... I forgot how hideous the modern addition to the Corner Brook City Hall is. That cube on top is half copper, half whatever-silver-metal.

Corner Brook by R C, on Flickr

There's also this tiny industrial Subway:

Corner Brook by R C, on Flickr

[SignalHillHiker]

So, the notorious neighbourhoods in St. John's have largely been a self-fixing problem. As immigrants move here, they naturally end up in these neighbourhoods and tend to elevate them almost immediately. Lawns are mowed, fresh coats of paint put on, families are active on the sidewalks. It's happened in my neighbourhood, and Buckmaster's Circle, and a few others.

But Mundy Pond has been largely resistant to this primarily because so few immigrants are moving there. It's still almost entirely local.



So the elementary school that serves this neighbourhood got a much-needed makeover over the past few years. They wanted to make it colourful and inviting, but they did it on the cheap.

And this is what that poor neighbourhood ended up with:



That said, it does seem to have inspired some sort of get up and go in the neighbourhood.



And some of the old buildings are getting vinyl... which is oddly a step up under these circumstances.

[SignalHillHiker]

And just to compare, a neighbourhood with new immigrants - Buckmaster's Circle, which used to look much like Mundy Pond.







I think it's objectively nicer than many directly adjacent neighbourhoods that were never part of the Central Slum, or public housing, and never had the same reputation.

[O-tacular]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

And some of the old buildings are getting vinyl... which is oddly a step up under these circumstances.

Vinyl is never a step up. Especially from brick.

[SignalHillHiker]

Ugh, see it looks so much better to me. The brick is more interesting, but it's such a poor and exceptionally suburban neighbourhood. The vinyl blends it in better with the rest of generic suburbia and, to my eyes, that registers as an improvement. "Oh, I can walk down this street at night if I had to..." type of internal reaction.

[Architype]

^ That school isn't "colourful" in the sense that they wanted, it looks like gas station kind of colourful; fill 'er up kids and check the oil. I think that the ultimate ugliness winners actually require some effort, a greatly misplaced and often deranged effort, a kind of creative insanity. Lots of the Nfld. stuff is just low key neglect, a kind of minimal utilitarian banal ugliness, or architectural philistinism. Much of the pubic housing you showed here is too neat and orderly to be ugly. I don't think that covering the brick in grey vinyl is an improvement however. That last one on Golf, I think, was a store a long time ago.

[Architype]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

Ugh, see it looks so much better to me. The brick is more interesting, but it's such a poor and exceptionally suburban neighbourhood. The vinyl blends it in better with the rest of generic suburbia and, to my eyes, that registers as an improvement. "Oh, I can walk down this street at night if I had to..." type of internal reaction.

Here's a thing to think about, if you look throughout the world, you find that wood or vinyl siding as we know it is only commonly used in North America, especially North Eastern N.A. If you look at England, Ireland, most of Europe and the rest of the world you don't find it as the default cladding or it is non existent.

[SignalHillHiker]

Originally Posted by Architype

Here's a thing to think about, if you look throughout the world, you find that wood or vinyl siding as we know it is only commonly used in North America, especially North Eastern N.A. If you look at England, Ireland, most of Europe and the rest of the world you don't find it as the default cladding or it is non existent.

Oh, I know. I'm well-traveled, but familiarity... it still registers as an improvement over bizarre, suburban brick duplexes. If there were some trees, and they cleaned up the grounds, I'd prefer the brick. But in the circumstance of that particular neighborhood, the vinyl helps.

[Architype]

I find it kind of funny that the so called "slums" are low density duplexes with paved driveways and green manicured lawns, in a cul de sac.

[SignalHillHiker]

True, though it'd be called the ghetto here. Slums don't exist here anymore, though there are a few surviving slum houses.

IE, this first green one from the left is clearly an unaltered slum house, except for the cladding. It probably (like the others) has no basement or foundation, just plywood on large logs.



Almost without exception, that shape of roof here means it was part of the central slum. If you could find this angle from 100-200 years ago, I imagine the blue and first green house would be there, almost as is but much more run down (literally no windows/holes in walls) if it was from the 1920s-40s.

[lio45]

100 years ago, sure, but 200 years ago? I don't think there's any building in St. John's that's that old.

And I doubt the subfloor would be plywood - that wasn't invented yet. Probably just softwood planks (on dirt, as you say - no foundation).

[SignalHillHiker]

200 years is 1817, though. We have several buildings that old, like Anderson House. And some of the stone downtown buildings adjacent to the former Central Slum survived the Great Fires of 1846 and 1892, so parts of that area likely survived as well. I doubt there's any building from the 1700s there, but that area was certainly developed then.

My neighborhood is what 100 years old looks like in St. John's - that example above is visibly older.

Softwood makes sense. That's what's in my house. I have a foundation, haha, but it is softwood floors.