333 Montreal Rd [Salvation Army] | 10+13m | 3+4f | Approved

[Vanier]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Am I the only one surprised to learn that Paul Heinbecker lives in Vanier? The idea challenges my assumptions...

And, it should challenge assumptions. There are many smart and successful people living in Vanier. We choose to live here, believe it or not as it is a very unique community in Ottawa. My neighbours range from millionaires to paupers. I find them all very interesting and all bring value to the community (with a few notable exceptions). There is something very special about Vanier that I don't feel or sense in other areas of the city. Maybe it is the Franco vibe?

We aren't looking to "gentrify" the community rather, we are looking to have balance. The S.A. proposal tilts this balance.

[rocketphish]

Salvation Army proceeds with Vanier shelter, despite opposition

Lauren Malyk, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: July 11, 2017 | Last Updated: July 11, 2017 9:06 PM EDT

The Salvation Army has decided to proceed with plans to relocate its residence and emergency shelter to Vanier despite stiff opposition from many area residents.

The Salvation Army’s communications director, Glenn van Gulik, said Tuesday night that he is confident the not-for-profit organization’s plan for a 9,600-square-metre multipurpose facility on Montreal Road will be a positive addition to the community.

The proposed $50-million facility, which the Salvation Army already owns, would house the organization’s emergency shelter, day programs, medical facility, addiction services and administrative offices.

As a part of the proposal for the rezoning of 333 Montreal Road, the organization would also purchase and demolish a house on Ste. Anne Avenue to provide a secondary access to the property.

Van Gulik said the organization will continue to talk to community stakeholders and representatives will attend another information session scheduled for Friday evening to hear the community’s concerns first-hand.

On Monday night,Van Gulik said he tried to attend an information meeting organized by city councillor Mathieu Fleury but had to line up with the overflow crowd of hundreds who were turned away from the Richelieu-Vanier community centre because the facility was at capacity.

“Frustration was quite (obvious) about the site selection … and how that transpired,” Van Gulik said.

“They didn’t want this in Vanier.”

He said that while he was lined up outside the community centre, he tried to address residents’ concerns and questions and provide clarity about how the site will function. He said the organization is committed to continue consultations with various community groups.

“A great deal of effort has gone into making sure the challenges our clients are facing are being addressed (at the proposed site). We don’t just want to (move) the challenges to another area,” Van Gulick said.

For the past seven years, the Salvation Army has been looking for a new shelter location to replace its current one on George Street.

Fleury, who represents the ward for both the shelter’s existing location and proposed new location, has been vocal against the move.

“I think the Salvation Army isn’t listening,” Fleury said Tuesday evening.

“I asked them to take a 30-day break on their submission and they were not willing to do that,” Fleury said.

“In my mind it sends the wrong message, we want to work with (the organization).”

In response to the overwhelming community interest on Monday night, Fleury will be hosting another information session on Friday from 5:30 to 7:30 p.m. at the Knights of Columbus on McArthur Avenue.

Van Gulick said the Salvation Army is working to arrange two additional meetings with the Vanier Community Association and the condo owner’s association from the building across the street from the Montreal Road site.

“We would rather have a community consultation, but we’re keeping the door open,” said Lauren Touchant, who is on the board of the community association.

Touchant said the information session on Monday was a chance for the Salvation Army to listen to the community.

“It was important to check the community’s pulse.”

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news...s-with-vainer-shelter-despite-opposition

[kwoldtimer]

I wonder how tough SA will want to be about this? Saying they continue with their plans is one thing - moving quickly to sell the Market property would be something else ...

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

I wonder how tough SA will want to be about this? Saying they continue with their plans is one thing - moving quickly to sell the Market property would be something else ...

They already bought the Vanier site, they appear to be fairly well along in the planning process, they have the support of the mayor, nobody is offering up another location, so I would tend to think it is a go.

[Vanier]

Originally Posted by acottawa

They already bought the Vanier site, they appear to be fairly well along in the planning process, they have the support of the mayor, nobody is offering up another location, so I would tend to think it is a go.

The sale is contingent upon the zoning. The zoning will likely be appealed to the OMB. No sale until that is resolved.

There is an inventory of available properties that are being investigated. At the meeting on Monday, the property where Rideau High was situated was tossed about and the property where the former Ottawa Technical High School was also discussed. Both are much better locations. Rideau High would be much less contentious than building adjacent to homes and our main street. There is a lot of land, enough room for a proper setback, with good transit.

Ditto for OTHS site as it is right on the LRT in an isolated part of downtown. There is also proximity to the new library and to city services and it is nearer the Royal and the Civic.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Vanier

The sale is contingent upon the zoning. The zoning will likely be appealed to the OMB. No sale until that is resolved.

There is an inventory of available properties that are being investigated. At the meeting on Monday, the property where Rideau High was situated was tossed about and the property where the former Ottawa Technical High School was also discussed. Both are much better locations. Rideau High would be much less contentious than building adjacent to homes and our main street. There is a lot of land, enough room for a proper setback, with good transit.

Ditto for OTHS site as it is right on the LRT in an isolated part of downtown. There is also proximity to the new library and to city services and it is nearer the Royal and the Civic.

The salvation army doesn't own either of those locations and school boards have a complex process to dispose of surplus land. Neighbourhood opposition, OMB appeals, etc. would also be present in those locations as well. I guess the city could offer land it owns to the salvation army for a comparable price.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Well I guess Vanier proved me wrong in terms of community mobilisation.

I thought there'd be mobilization.

But that - that - that is mind-boggling.

Imagine if had been the Glebe.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Vanier

It was anything but a NIMBY fest. It was about that specific location/scale and how this changes our main street which we are desperately trying to improve. There were other locations in Vanier discussed as well as other areas in the city. Vanier residents are very accommodating. If this was any other area of Ottawa, this wouldn't have even be discussed and it would be straight to pitchforks. People have such a hate for Vanier and its residents.

The average Ottawan's mental image of Vanier is at least two decades out of date.

[Proof Sheet]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Imagine if had been the Glebe.

There is no way that Mayor Jimbo would have given the OK nod to the Salvation Army if they had suggested the Glebe or any other area where he needs to do ribbon cutting and seniors tea parties.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Vanier

It isn't the population it serves. It serves not Vanier but rather Rideau-Vanier ward. Yes, 70% of their population resides in the ward (in their shelter,duh!). This is just one instance of disinformation that the S.A. is disseminating. Is the investment 30, 50 or 60 million dollars? I've seen all three figures presented in the media.

The S.A. is playing loose with the truth.

I am really starting to think Vanier should be hived off of the Rideau/Market area if and when Ottawa ever finally redraws its municipal electoral boundaries.

You see the same thing with crime stats, which the OPS for inexplicable reasons publishes by ward: Rideau-Vanier consistently has high crime rates as a ward. The media consistently reports the story as "ermagard Vanier". And they consistently overlook the fact that the driver of those crime stats in Rideau-Vanier ward is Rideau Street, the market, and adjacent areas, and not so much Vanier itself.

[rocketphish]

Salvation Army responds to criticism over proposed move to Vanier
Spokesperson said charity wasn’t invited to a crowded and boisterous community meeting held earlier this week.

By: Alex Abdelwahab, Metro
Published on Thu Jul 13 2017

The spokesperson for the Salvation Army in Ottawa says the charity is actively consulting community members about their move to Vanier.

Glenn van Gulik said the charity will be holding a meeting with the Vanier Community Association and Block Captains next week and with tenants of a condo near the proposed building site.

The Salvation Army has submitted a development application to the City of Ottawa to build a new site at 333 Montreal Rd. It has lunched a website showing plans for the new facility.

At a public meeting earlier this week, Coun. Mathieu said the charity hadn’t done enough to talk to the community about the planned move. He also said he had asked them to delay their proposed zoning changes to explore other sites.

“To halt the process now would set us too far back,” van Gulik said. “We are invested in this project and we feel strongly that this is the location we need to be.”

He said the Salvation Army has been consulting with Coun. Fleury and the city for two years. The Montreal Road address, he said, is the only “suitable option.”

Van Gulik also said the charity wasn’t invited to Monday’s public meeting.

“We were notified of it, but we asked to be invited and we weren’t,” he said.

He said that he did attend the meeting himself and listened to all concerns raised.

-with files from Ryan Tumilty.

http://www.metronews.ca/news/ottawa/2017...ds-to-criticism-over-move-to-vanier.html

[rocketphish]

Vanier residents rail against Salvation Army 'mega-shelter' plan

Olivia Blackmore, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: July 18, 2017 | Last Updated: July 18, 2017 11:30 PM EDT



Ericka Therrien bought a house on Deschamps Ave. with the hopes of starting a family in Vanier, but plans by the Salvation Army to bring a new shelter into their community may change all that.

“We bought our house two years ago, and we thought that things in the neighbourhood would get better and that things would continue to get better and there could be a collective effort to help make things better,” said Therrien, 25, as at least 100 Vanier residents gathered outside a local condo building Tuesday night to voice their displeasure with the project.

“We’re here for personal reasons and for our community. We’re scared and a bit angry that this has happened secretly. But we’re mostly scared about what’s happening.”

Inside 200 Lafontaine Ave., a private meeting was taking place between with members of the Salvation Army and the condo’s board and residents.

Outside, meanwhile, the message from demonstrators was very public and very clear as they held signs and chanted “Hey-hey-ho-ho, the mega-shelter has got to go,” as passing cars honked

Rachel Robillard, 41, said she has lived in Vanier her entire life and has always known it to be a welcoming community.

“I’m not here against homelessness, I believe that everybody has a right to a home,” she said. “I just don’t think this is the solution and also there has been no public consultation.”

Last week, the Salvation Army announced it decided to proceed with plans to relocate the residence and emergency shelter. The plans call for a 9,600-square-metre multi-purpose facility that would house an emergency shelter, day programs, medical facility, addiction services and administrative offices. A house on Ste. Anne Avenue would be demolished to provide a secondary access to the property. The shelter would offer 350 beds in total, 140 of them earmarked as emergency beds.

Statistically, the Vanier community has almost three times the social services of any other community in Ottawa, Robillard said. She said the community will be ghettoized if the shelter goes through.

“We are inviting, we are heterogeneous, we are OK with that; you need people from all different walks of life in order to create a community,” Robillard said.

Drew Dobson owns Finnigan’s Pub across the street and was one of the organizers of the protest.

“They say the politicians and the city staff have known about this process for a year or two and we find out four weeks ago — that’s not acceptable” Dobson said.

“And then they continue this behaviour by having private information sessions with condominium corporations instead of consulting with the public.”

Glenn van Gulik, the Salvation Army‘s communications director, said the meeting that took place at Place Lafontaine was requested by the condo board and had been initiated a couple of weeks ago so that a presentation could be given and questions and concerns from residents could be addressed.

About 75 residents were in attendance as well as Coun. Mathieu Fleury and security experts, van Gulik said.

He said Tuesday’s meeting was specifically for residents of 200 Lafontaine, which is why it was not open to the public.

Public consultations that will be open to the community are being organized for September, van Gulik said, adding that the Salvation Army is working with the city to schedule the meetings.

The Salvation Army will be meeting with the Vanier Community Association and was invited to give a presentation and answer questions for the Quartier Vanier BIA in the next week, van Gulik said.

Although Therrien fears for the future of her neighbourhood, she said that she is hopeful that a solution can be found and that she will be participating in any future community meetings or public consultations.

“Ultimately it’s up to the community, the stakeholders, the taxpayers to rally and get together,” Robillard said.

“The only way we’ll be heard is this way.”

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news...against-salvation-army-mega-shelter-plan

[Arcologist]

If they enforce a no loitering policy on the surrounding streets, then I think this new centre can be a very positive thing. Those who use the centre's services will be more inclined to remain on the grounds and not in the streets, and the centre will offer an array of services, not just a homeless shelter.

[downtown_eddie_brown]

Originally Posted by Arcologist

If they enforce a no loitering policy on the surrounding streets, then I think this new centre can be a very positive thing. Those who use the centre's services will be more inclined to remain on the grounds and not in the streets, and the centre will offer an array of services, not just a homeless shelter.

If they don't even enforce a no-loitering policy on the George Street site (in FLAGRANT disregard of the sign), I doubt they would in Vanier. Also, unless the site users can smoke, drink alcohol, or use controlled substances on the center's grounds, I think we can expect these things in the streets instead.

[rocketphish]

Fleury, Salvation Army face off over proposed Vanier shelter project

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: July 20, 2017 | Last Updated: July 20, 2017 3:54 PM EDT

Coun. Mathieu Fleury is firing back at the Salvation Army, accusing the agency of being “unorganized” and spinning rhetoric over its $50-million plan to relocate an emergency shelter and support centre to Vanier.

Fleury said a letter released by the Salvation Army July 15 was in response to a June 27 letter he sent the organization asking for the criteria used by the Salvation Army to choose 333 Montreal Rd. for the proposed complex and requesting that the development application process pause for 30 days to find other potential sites.

“And they respond with this,” Fleury said in his office, pointing to the Salvation Army’s July 15 letter, which claims Fleury never indicated opposition to the group’s proposed shelter on Montreal Road.

Salvation Army Letter to Mathieu Fleury Dated July 15 2017

“What they choose to do is create a full spin, full of assumptions and subtleties in here that are, in my mind, building on the rhetoric that they have consulted the city, that they’ve consulted with the community, that we knew all along about that site and the subtle component that we supported that site.”

The organization sent its letter to Fleury last Saturday reminding him of the consultation process that started in January 2015, when the organization apparently met with Fleury and the city to discuss the Vanier property. The Salvation Army sent the letter to all council members Wednesday night.

The Salvation Army wants to build a facility to replace the current emergency shelter in the ByWard Market.

“At that time, you indicated that you were supportive of a concept where the design of a new facility did not replicate the current structure in the Market; a facility that did not resemble institutional use and had a ‘wow’ factor that the Ottawa Booth Centre does not have,” wrote Glenn van Gulik, the Salvation Army’s area public relations director.

Van Gulik goes on to mention other times that the Salvation Army has met with Fleury about the proposal.

The letter’s intent was clearly to show that Fleury wasn’t blindsided by the Salvation Army’s proposal to move the service centre to Vanier.

“In fact, as we look back at all of the meetings over the past two-and-a-half years, not only have we never been requested to engage community groups in discussion or consultation, but there was insistence by yourself and the City staff to keep this proposal for 333 Montreal Road private until the announcement on June 22nd, 2017,” van Gulik wrote in the letter.

Fleury said he never asked to keep the proposal secret.

“They’re losing focus of their application. We’re still waiting for them to do public consultation, identified dates and location,” Fleury said.

“This group appears to be unorganized in terms of engagement with our city and our community.”

Fleury said he has known the Salvation Army was looking for a new shelter site for the past seven years.

Asked why he didn’t spearhead a consultation since he knew about the Salvation Army’s intentions for years, Fleury said he didn’t think the organization’s headquarters would follow through.

“I was convinced this organization was not going to proceed with a submission,” Fleury said.

Where the Salvation Army suggests Fleury wanted the organization to wait until he returned from vacation to make the project announcement last month, Fleury doesn’t see the importance.

Fleury said he appreciates that the Salvation Army waited until he returned from a vacation to make its announcement, but “do your announcement when you want. I’m still not supportive of the site.”

Fleury wants more decentralization of the social services, rather than clumping them together on one property.

He believes the community should have helped with the site selection.

The Salvation Army says it has never been asked to engage in community consultations, but Fleury said it’s the organization’s responsibility as part of the planning process.

“If they were focused on their application, they would do public consultation. They haven’t done that yet,” Fleury said.

The proposed shelter and support services centre on Montreal Road is the hottest planning file in Ottawa. The city has made an effort to highlight the development application as the window closes on public feedback. The city expects the planning committee and council will consider the application in the fall.

In Vanier, there is vocal opposition to the shelter proposal.

Fleury is caught in the middle of two communities: one that has been trying to reduce the impacts of the shelter in the ByWard Market and another that is rallying against the shelter’s move to Vanier. He represents both neighbourhoods on council.

Meanwhile, Mayor Jim Watson has thrown his support behind the Salvation Army proposal.

There appears to be no appetite at the Salvation Army to delay the application, even though Fleury has said he wants to slow it down to consult the public.

[email protected]
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news...st-city-councillor-over-shelter-proposal

[TWCotC]

Newbie I "think" that there should be an enquiry into the City of Ottawa Planning Committee and City Council's blatant disregard for the staff report that recommended prohibiting the Salvation Army's request to build a CHURCH at the end of a busy RUNWAY?

Perhaps Vanier and the Ottawa Airport Authority should partner? I wonder how much money Salvation Army dropped in Barrhaven if Vanier is worth $50 million? Wouldn't you like to know too?

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by TWCotC

Newbie I "think" that there should be an enquiry into the City of Ottawa Planning Committee and City Council's blatant disregard for the staff report that recommended prohibiting the Salvation Army's request to build a CHURCH at the end of a busy RUNWAY?

Perhaps Vanier and the Ottawa Airport Authority should partner? I wonder how much money Salvation Army dropped in Barrhaven if Vanier is worth $50 million? Wouldn't you like to know too?

Welcome to the forum!

[rocketphish]

Pushing a new shelter on Vanier a rational answer to the perverse way we help the homeless

David Reevely, Ottawa Citizen
Published on: July 28, 2017 | Last Updated: July 28, 2017 4:20 PM EDT

Since we force the Salvation Army to act like a pushy private developer so it can build a new homeless shelter, it’s doing the only sensible thing by fighting hard to get that shelter built in Vanier.

The story of the 350-bed shelter and health-care complex the Salvation Army wants to build just off Montreal Road follows familiar lines.

The way it usually goes, a private developer wants to make money by constructing a condo tower or something, demolishing smaller houses or closing existing businesses some people like. Neighbours worry about shadows, noise, balconies overlooking their properties, traffic on already crowded streets. These things are never as bad as people worry they will be but they aren’t imaginary, either. No property developer really wants to build garbage but the builder does expect to finish the thing, sell it and move on, so the notion that he or she doesn’t care about the harmful consequences of the project usually has at least some grounding.

Transposing this model onto to a religious organization trying to build a centre for homeless people is weird and harmful, but that’s what’s happened. The Salvation Army has to ask the city’s permission — for new zoning and an amendment to the city’s official land-use plan — and be cast in the role of the neighbourhood-wrecking villain to do things the city really, really wants and needs it to do.

The Salvation Army wants to replace its Booth Centre in the ByWard Market with one that has slightly fewer emergency-shelter beds than the old one (140 versus 150) but a wider range of accommodations for people needing longer stays, better spaces for health treatment and life-skills training, and a thoughtful design so the image it presents to the neighbours isn’t of rough-looking guys on the sidewalk outside with cigarettes. It has property in Vanier it believes will work and says the site is close to the people it serves.

The group provides essential public services and gets public money to do it. Practically, it’s somewhere between a charity and an arm’s-length government agency. Nationwide, according to routine filings, the Salvation Army gets more than $200 million a year from Canadian governments at all levels. With the Shepherds of Good Hope and the Ottawa Mission (all three of them founded in religious notions of service), the Salvation Army delivers most of our public response to street-level homelessness and debilitating mental illness and addiction. If they didn’t do it, city hall and the provincial government would have to.

But if the city ran shelters and councillors had to deal with the plans for where to put them from the very beginning, we might never get any built at all.

You can make the case that the Salvation Army should have brought the neighbourhood in earlier. Knocked on doors, held public meetings — not just with Coun. Mathieu Fleury and the city’s real-estate and social-services managers, but with all comers in community halls — consulted and re-thought and consulted some more before filing the applications that gave most Vanier residents and merchants their first alerts. The group and Fleury have argued publicly, but inconclusively, about whose fault it was that that didn’t happen.

In theory, the Salvation Army could do that and gradually the project would evolve for the better and everyone would be convinced because if only people talk long enough eventually they’ll find common ground. And wouldn’t that be nice.

But the overwhelmingly likely result is that the Salvation Army would just get angry meeting after angry meeting. The discussion so far is not about what direction the front doors face or where clients will smoke. It’s about whether Vanier has taken enough of the city’s burden of undesirables and shouldn’t services for the homeless be spread out into more places, such as Kanata and maybe a field outside Kars? This isn’t an argument that allows for compromise or finding creative solutions no matter how long you talk about it. Either the shelter’s going in Vanier or it isn’t.

Much better to execute a blitz. You’re going to have a fight no matter what, so make it as quick as possible. You don’t need to persuade the community, you need to persuade city council’s planning committee, whose members are going to say yes because they know Ottawa needs homeless shelters and none of them answers to Vanier voters. They’re used to voting for condo towers over local objections. This project they can even feel virtuous about approving.

It’s all a rational response to the system we’ve created. And a bad, divisive, destructive way to provide essential social services for people who really need them.

[email protected]
twitter.com/davidreevely

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news...to-the-perverse-way-we-help-the-homeless

[TWCotC]

It was reported that the Salvation Army zoning amendment on the land in Barrhaven is land the Salvation already owned.

Questions: Who sold the land at the end of the busiest Runway to the Salvation Army?

Who owns the Ottawa International Airport?

[waterloowarrior]

Originally Posted by TWCotC

It was reported that the Salvation Army zoning amendment on the land in Barrhaven is land the Salvation already owned.

Questions: Who sold the land at the end of the busiest Runway to the Salvation Army?

Who owns the Ottawa International Airport?

Minto sold the land to the Salvation Army.
Transport Canada owns the airport. It is operated by and leased to the Ottawa Macdonald-Cartier International Airport Authority

we have another thread for the Barrhaven project here
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?p=7771731