stal̕əw̓asəm (Riverview) Bridge (Pattullo Bridge Replacement) | U/C

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by osirisboy

...Basically all car manufactures will have multiple electric models out on the market by 2020 and the costs will be no more expensive than gas cars...

The breakeven point is going to take longer to arrive than that for North America, and even then it will refer to total lifecycle costs, not purchase costs. The day is coming, but it's still a little further out than that, I think.

My next car will also be all-electric.

[retro_orange]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Everybody who disagrees with Stingray is a "well known troll".

I agree with Alex that the Patullo is in actual danger of collapse, with or without a seismic event.

The GMT replacement is more about capacity than imminent danger. Same as the old PMB.

Yes, I have noticed a pattern with stingray. Kinda turning into a classic narcissist.

Truth be told; I agree that both crossings need to be replaced and sooner than later.

I also believe we would be better off having a bridge to replace the Massey tunnel. It would make port activity easier if they could dredge where the tunnel is and be able to route more goods through less populated areas thus making goods transportation more efficient and cheaper with less trucks and trains blocking major roadways that were established when there were less people utilizing the street network. Also reducing congestion in Vancouver and Burnaby with less trucks needing to go through.

The Pattullo is literally on it's last legs and fading fast. They may have to shut down the crossing entirely before the new bridge is complete if they don't hurry up. There isn't the same criteria to shut down the Massey tunnel by 2023 if it's not replaced.

They also have to be appropriately sized for their future needs but a silly back and forth saying one isn't needed at all is just going nowhere and I can't be bothered.

[Caliplanner1]

Originally Posted by osirisboy

Not to mention that it's inevitable that most cars and trucks will be zero emission in the not so distant future. Basically all car manufactures will have multiple electric models out on the market by 2020 and the costs will be no more expensive than gas cars. My next car will be electric. THey need to get over the anti-freeway mentality. It makes no sense.

The thing to also consider though is that highway gridlock (or lack thereof) as a function of road pricing strategy/tolls etc. is not only about air quality/climate change/carbon emission levels etc. but also about lost man-hours/productivity/work time as well as lost quality-time spent at home with family as one sits in endless highway traffic.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

You really want to do a smart tolling system that has multiple beneficial layers for the economy and the environment? Have prices set for how energy efficient the cars are. The more green the vehicle, the lower the toll. In Japan this also helps people economically because the majority of fuel efficient cars are also the cheapest and smallest (which most people on low to moderate incomes own, including my family) They are called K-Cars.

All this anti-highway talk from Vision and the Greens is nonsense, in Japan they realize that having a strong highway system is beneficial to the economy, so instead of being anti-road they have strongly encouraged people to drive more environmentally friendly vehicles. Smaller, lighter, more fuel efficient. These cars also have much lower insurance costs.

You want to drive a super cool 6 cylinder car / fuel guzzling truck that is too big for what you use it for / oversized Hummer SUV / etc... then you are going to pay more... much more.

If you can afford fancy expensive cars you can afford a higher toll.

That's not the whole story though...

In Japan, parking a large car is an order of magnitude more expensive because of parking stall sizes and having a place to park is important.

Kei cars are:

• Under 700cc (usually turbo-charged)
• 4-passenger
• Not required to pass the same safety tests.
• MUCH cheaper to insure (something like 1/2 the price I believe)
• Are mostly designed for city use and occasional highway use
• Are domestic only, not exported (well, not when they're new)
• Are cheaper to manufacture and buy

Also, due to Japan's extremely strict (and expensive) annual or biennial mandatory inspections (which are also cheaper for Kei cars), people don't tend to keep cars more than 10 years maximum. It's been theorized that these inspections serve a few purposes.

1. It keeps older, less efficient, cars off the road.
2. It makes older cars depreciate a LOT and QUICKLY.
3. It stimulates the automotive economy with new sales

Don't get me wrong, there are elements of having these little city cars running around town that I love. I love that they've incentivized the domestic car making market to come up with an innovative and affordable alternative to owning massive cars, but it's a whole bunch of things working together to make them viable. I'd love to see some REAL incentives to encourage people to drive more fuel efficient and SMALLER cars... but I think the moment has probably passed for that, as we're going to see more and services replace personal ownership of cars (or at least personal ownership of more than 1 car).

I want my next car to be electric as well... and I have a $1000 down on a Model 3... I just don't know if I'm going to pull the trigger due to the cost.

[Zassk]

Originally Posted by retro_orange

The Pattullo is literally on it's last legs and fading fast. They may have to shut down the crossing entirely before the new bridge is complete if they don't hurry up. There isn't the same criteria to shut down the Massey tunnel by 2023 if it's not replaced.

There is no question that the Patullo is more urgent, but we shouldn't downplay the situation with the tunnel. The 2010 earthquake in Olympia would have destroyed the tunnel had it occurred here.

They are relatively close in age (21 years) and both suffer from the building standards of their days.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by Zassk

There is no question that the Patullo is more urgent, but we shouldn't downplay the situation with the tunnel. The 2010 earthquake in Olympia would have destroyed the tunnel had it occurred here.

They are relatively close in age (21 years) and both suffer from the building standards of their days.

The difference between the two is if we do nothing and no earthquake hits, the tunnel will survive for another 25 years. If we do nothing and no earthquake hits, the Pattullo could fall in the next 10 (river scour is the chief problem here, and no amount of bridge deck re-engineering is going to fix that).

[moosejaw]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

The difference between the two is if we do nothing and no earthquake hits, the tunnel will survive for another 25 years. If we do nothing and no earthquake hits, the Pattullo could fall in the next 10 (river scour is the chief problem here, and no amount of bridge deck re-engineering is going to fix that).

The tunnel is good for another 25 years? I was under the impression that it was 10? If that statement is accurate then it would make sense to build an adjoining tunnel and not a bridge. If its indeed what you are saying is true

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by moosejaw

The tunnel is good for another 25 years? I was under the impression that it was 10? If that statement is accurate then it would make sense to build an adjoining tunnel and not a bridge. If its indeed what you are saying is true

The Project Definition Report doesn't say anything about projected lifetime of the Massey Tunnel (at least, that I can see). The rationale for replacing it is to reduce congestion, improve safety, support goods movement and transit, and accommodate cyclists and pedestrians.

Mind you, the Pattullo Bridge documents don't say anything like "it'll fall down in 10 years" either, but they really play up the "it was built for a 50-year timespan and it's now 80 years old" factor.

[Zassk]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

The difference between the two is if we do nothing and no earthquake hits, the tunnel will survive for another 25 years.

It requires major rehabilitation in 10 years according to the ministry, putting it in the same situation that the Patullo was in a few years ago. Remember the "just wait" approach to the Patullo has cost $199 million just to keep the bridge open a few more years. Delta's summary pegs "do nothing" as costing $590 million for the tunnel. I'm sure they have spun this to support their goals, but we can still expect the costs of maintenance to soar as the tunnel ages.

[Pinion]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

The Mind you, the Pattullo Bridge documents don't say anything like "it'll fall down in 10 years" either, but they really play up the "it was built for a 50-year timespan and it's now 80 years old" factor.

*58, not that it makes a difference in feeling unsafe and underbuilt.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by Pinion

*58, not that it makes a difference in feeling unsafe and underbuilt.

The Pattullo Bridge was opened in 1937, making it 80 years old.

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

Green's said they don't support that of the NDP. and i doubt the liberals would vote in favour of it. odds are, don't count on it. plus when the NDP realize their plans are crazy expensive and unattainable they will need the tolls to push through their unattainable plans; just like the 90's

Eliminating all tolls and the MSP were 2 of the top election promises of the NDP during the election. Both of these will also be part of the first budget they put forward. If the Greens and Liberals both vote against the budget, the government will fall. The Greens won't do that. They will suck it up and support the budget.

If the NDP fail to move on either of these promises, the Liberals will hammer them with it when the next election is called in a year. Exciting times ahead...

[Metro-One]

Removing the tolls is such a stupid idea.

I would much rather have new bridges with tolls than cancelled projects with no tolls.

I wish they simply promised a reform to the tolling system instead.

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by Trainguy

Eliminating all tolls and the MSP were 2 of the top election promises of the NDP during the election. Both of these will also be part of the first budget they put forward. If the Greens and Liberals both vote against the budget, the government will fall. The Greens won't do that. They will suck it up and support the budget.

If the NDP fail to move on either of these promises, the Liberals will hammer them with it when the next election is called in a year. Exciting times ahead...

Eliminate all tolls on exisiting structures, appease the residents SOF. Implement road pricing.

[flipper316]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

Eliminate all tolls on exisiting structures, appease the residents SOF. Implement road pricing.

Yea no thanks. Keep the tolls. Let people vote with their time and wallets and let them have a choice .

[Marshal]

Originally Posted by flipper316

Yea no thanks. Keep the tolls. Let people vote with their time and wallets and let them have a choice .

Let who vote with their time and wallets? All of the people or just some?

[libtard]

If the bridge is such an imminent problem why doesnt translink divert resources from the Broadway skytrain extension to focus on the Patullo replacement?

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by libtard

If the bridge is such an imminent problem why doesnt translink divert resources from the Broadway skytrain extension to focus on the Patullo replacement?

What resources? Right now they don't have the money to do either.

Hopefully with the NDP government the Mayors and Translink will be able to make some progress on the last part of the funding equation.

[retro_orange]

Originally Posted by libtard

If the bridge is such an imminent problem why doesnt translink divert resources from the Broadway skytrain extension to focus on the Patullo replacement?

Asinine.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by libtard

If the bridge is such an imminent problem why doesnt translink divert resources from the Broadway skytrain extension to focus on the Patullo replacement?

Does your comedy tour stop in Vancouver at all?