Richmond, B.C., considers banning Chinese-only signage - Page 48

Acajack · #**941** Posted **Jul 12, 2017, 11:27 AM**

I get your point guys but the FB reactions are a bit disingeneous. Obviously they meant a Chinese speaking person.

p_xavier · #**942** Posted **Jul 12, 2017, 12:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

I get your point guys but the FB reactions are a bit disingeneous. Obviously they meant a Chinese speaking person.

That is still not acceptable... BC will have to put an official language law soon.

kwoldtimer · #**943** Posted **Jul 12, 2017, 12:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

That is still not acceptable... BC will have to put an official language law soon.

It's not acceptable to be able to speak Chinese?

p_xavier · #**944** Posted **Jul 12, 2017, 12:16 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

It's not acceptable to be able to speak Chinese?

No, because it removes opportunities for other people. This is not about a translator job or an airline steward, this is about a "normal" job.

kwoldtimer · #**945** Posted **Jul 12, 2017, 12:42 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

No, because it removes opportunities for other people. This is not about a translator job or an airline steward, this is about a "normal" job.

Hiring people for their language abilities is common - banks, for example, do it all the time in neighbourhoods with significant ethnic presence. I don't see how it "removes opportunities for other people" any more than does any other job requirement.

p_xavier · #**946** Posted **Jul 12, 2017, 12:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Hiring people for their language abilities is common - banks, for example, do it all the time in neighbourhoods with significant ethnic presence. I don't see how it "removes opportunities for other people" any more than does any other job requirement.

I find it extremely racist first, social cohesion needs to have a common language and you can't expect everyone to learn every single language spoken in a town to better there careers.

Acajack · #**947** Posted **Jul 12, 2017, 1:00 PM**

I don't see the issue with wanting an employee who speaks Chinese, or Portuguese or Spanish. (In addition to English, ideally of course if you're in BC.)

Businesses that have large numbers of clients who are foreign tourists often hire people who speak foreign languages too. It's no big deal really.

BTW, I am firmly on the side of those who think that people should learn the language of their new country. But I don't think this means other languages can't be used in family or other settings where it's all speakers of language X who are present.

p_xavier · #**948** Posted **Jul 12, 2017, 1:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

I don't see the issue with wanting an employee who speaks Chinese, or Portuguese or Spanish. (In addition to English, ideally of course if you're in BC.)

Businesses that have large numbers of clients who are foreign tourists often hire people who speak foreign languages too. It's no big deal really.

BTW, I am firmly on the side of those who think that people should learn the language of their new country. But I don't think this means other languages can't be used in family or other settings where it's all speakers of language X who are present.

When there is a mass of people, they can actually remove themselves from the core community, like what is happening in Richmond. Why bother learning English where you can live your entire life in Chinese and have job offers catered to Chinese-only speakers?

Acajack · #**949** Posted **Jul 12, 2017, 1:09 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

When there is a mass of people, they can actually remove themeselves from the core community, like what is happening in Richmond. Why bother learning English where you can live your entire life in Chinese and have job offers catered to Chinese-only speakers?

I don't see this as being any more desirable than you do, but to me most of the alternatives are even less desirable.

speedog · #**950** Posted **Jul 12, 2017, 1:11 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

I don't see the issue with wanting an employee who speaks Chinese, or Portuguese or Spanish. (In addition to English, ideally of course if you're in BC.)

Businesses that have large numbers of clients who are foreign tourists often hire people who speak foreign languages too. It's no big deal really.

BTW, I am firmly on the side of those who think that people should learn the language of their new country. But I don't think this means other languages can't be used in family or other settings where it's all speakers of language X who are present.

So in the case of this condo board and it's meetings, what do you think should or should have not happened?

niwell · #**951** Posted **Jul 12, 2017, 1:12 PM**

Back to an example I gave above, almost all the banks in Little Portugal and wide swaths of west Toronto hire tellers who speak Portuguese to cater to the local population. Smaller, local businesses may only speak in Portuguese and broken English. This has been going on for decades without much complaint by anyone.

Acajack · #**952** Posted **Jul 12, 2017, 1:20 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by speedog

So in the case of this condo board and it's meetings, what do you think should or should have not happened?

Oh, the condo board is totally different from this store which is a private business.

As I said many pages ago, the condo board is a requirement of provincial law and it has powers afforded to it by the province. (Every condo has a board and they have the power to make decisions and impose them on everyone in the building.)

Since people don't have a choice to abide by the condo board's decisions, and are also free to live wherever they want in BC (including a largely Chinese condo building in Richmond), the condo board's meetings should be in English unless 100% of the people in the room are OK with them being in Mandarin.

p_xavier · #**953** Posted **Jul 12, 2017, 1:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Oh, the condo board is totally different from this store which is a private business.

As I said many pages ago, the condo board is a requirement of provincial law and it has powers afforded to it by the province. (Every condo has a board and they have the power to make decisions and impose them on everyone in the building.)

Since people don't have a choice to abide by the condo board's decisions, and are also free to live wherever they want in BC (including a largely Chinese condo building in Richmond), the condo board's meetings should be in English unless 100% of the people in the room are OK with them being in Mandarin.

I only cater to Chinese people, and I refuse to serve blacks or gays because I'm a private business. REALLY? That is such a slippery slope that I can't even begin.

Acajack · #**954** Posted **Jul 12, 2017, 1:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

I only cater to Chinese people, and I refuse to serve blacks or gays because I'm a private business. REALLY? That is such a slippery slope that I can't even begin.

That's not what we are talking about, though. (I assume) we're talking about having an employee who *can* serve Chinese (eg Mandarin-speaking customers). This does not mean that this employee or at least the store, would not serve customers who speak English.

One does not exclude the other.

p_xavier · #**955** Posted **Jul 12, 2017, 1:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

That's not what we are talking about, though. (I assume) we're talking about having an employee who *can* serve Chinese (eg Mandarin-speaking customers). This does not mean that this employee or at least the store, would not serve customers who speak English.

One does not exclude the other.

No, we're talking about having an employee who *must*.

kwoldtimer · #**956** Posted **Jul 12, 2017, 1:38 PM**

"must" and "only" are two entirely different things. One notes that the (clumsy) poster outside the store was in English.

kwoldtimer · #**957** Posted **Jul 12, 2017, 1:41 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

I only cater to Chinese people, and I refuse to serve blacks or gays because I'm a private business. REALLY? That is such a slippery slope that I can't even begin.

Even if you only speak Chinese, there's no implication that you only serve Chinese people. If you do discriminate on a prohibited grounds, we have laws to take care of it.

p_xavier · #**958** Posted **Jul 12, 2017, 1:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Even if you only speak Chinese, there's no implication that you only serve Chinese people. If you do discriminate on a prohibited grounds, we have laws to take care of it.

There is no discrimination law based on language in BC, so yes they can only serve Chinese people if they want. My analogy was how ridiculous it is to ban other races and it is indeed prohibited, non-so for language :

Quote:

Language rights

Generally, people have the right to use either the English or French language in communications with Canada's federal government and certain provincial governments. Specifically, the language laws in the Charter include:

Section 16: English and French are the official languages of Canada and New Brunswick.

Section 16.1: the English and French-speaking communities of New Brunswick have equal rights to educational and cultural institutions.

Section 17: the right to use either official language in Parliament or the New Brunswick legislature.

Section 18: the statutes and proceedings of Parliament and the New Brunswick legislature are to be printed in both official languages.

Section 19: both official languages may be used in federal and New Brunswick courts.

Section 20: the right to communicate with and be served by the federal and New Brunswick governments in either official language.

Section 21: other constitutional language rights outside the Charter regarding English and French are sustained.

Section 22: existing rights to use languages besides English and French are not affected by the fact that only English and French have language rights in the Charter. (Hence, if there are any rights to use Aboriginal languages anywhere they would continue to exist, though they would have no direct protection under the Charter.)

Acajack · #**959** Posted **Jul 12, 2017, 1:47 PM**

In any event, I am strongly supportive of Bill 101 in Quebec and would be supportive of something similar in BC (or anywhere else) to "protect English" if people there feel that it's necessary. Personally I don't really think they're there yet, and probably will never be. But then again I am not a BCer.

kwoldtimer · #**960** Posted **Jul 12, 2017, 1:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by d_jeffrey

There is no discrimination law based on language in BC, so yes they can only serve Chinese people if they want. My analogy was how ridiculous it is to ban other races and it is indeed prohibited, non-so for language :

Discrimination based on race, national or ethnic origin (among other "prohibited grounds of discrimination) is illegal in Canada. Advertising a position with a language requirement does not run afoul of the law, istm. I suppose you might be able to test it if a white, Mandarin-speaking person applied for the job, was unsuccessful, and could prove that this was because they were not ethnically Chinese. How likely is that to happen, however?