[Moncton] Centre Avenir Centre | 26.65m |~6 Fl | Completed

[flyer99]

Originally Posted by PEI highway guy

The Camera is working again.

Is the outdoor webcam stuck again? There is no point in having one if it cannot be maintained. How difficult can this be for the City?

[MonctonRad]

Here is the link to the June 2017 update regarding ongoing progress of the construction of the events centre:

http://www.moncton.ca/Assets/Business+En..._ENG/dtcconstructionupdate+-+jun2017.pdf

A few photos:

[flyer99]

Thanks for this. I was wondering what that concrete structure was toward the back of the plaza. Now I know it is a separate Zamboni building. Things are moving along nicely. I really wish they could get the outdoor camera working as I know a lot of people who love to watch the progress.

[Monctoncore]

I saw an interesting conversation.. well a one sided conversation under one of the event centre pictures on Dawn Arnold's Facebook page, where people think they should have gone bigger than they did, they are concerned that we won't be able to attract larger events because it's not 14,000 plus seats..

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Monctoncore

I saw an interesting conversation.. well a one sided conversation under one of the event centre pictures on Dawn Arnold's Facebook page, where people think they should have gone bigger than they did, they are concerned that we won't be able to attract larger events because it's not 14,000 plus seats..

10,000 capacity is fine for the sort of events that swing through the Maritimes. It's always better for ticket supply/demand to have a facility perhaps too small than one that's too big. Ticket scarcity simply drives prices up.

Moncton used to have events at Magnetic Hill that could handle higher capacities. I'm sure if people want larger shows that should be the obvious option again, and it wouldn't cost millions of dollars to build a facility to handle them.

[Monctoncore]

Originally Posted by JHikka

10,000 capacity is fine for the sort of events that swing through the Maritimes. It's always better for ticket supply/demand to have a facility perhaps too small than one that's too big. Ticket scarcity simply drives prices up.

Moncton used to have events at Magnetic Hill that could handle higher capacities. I'm sure if people want larger shows that should be the obvious option again, and it wouldn't cost millions of dollars to build a facility to handle them.

I agree. My views are similar to yours, I think the problems of the past wasn't that the venues were small capacity, but it had to do with the fact there were only 2 venues with high enough ceilings to hold the larger stages, Harbour station and Scotiabank centre. I know quite a few acts past up on Moncton for that reason. They would go to Saint John and Halifax, and skip moncton because of the awkward roof shape, poor acoustics and ventilation. Larger acts would pass up the Maritimes because of the fact there were only two ideal locations, which is not worth the trip. I think once we have the new centre in Moncton, promoters will look at he three stops as worth the money. This is all personal opinions on the matter, I could be wrong.

[flyer99]

Originally Posted by Monctoncore

I saw an interesting conversation.. well a one sided conversation under one of the event centre pictures on Dawn Arnold's Facebook page, where people think they should have gone bigger than they did, they are concerned that we won't be able to attract larger events because it's not 14,000 plus seats..

10,000 is quite adequate. We will have enough of an issue finding parking for 10K people let alone 14K people.

[BlackYear]

100,000 people passed through Main street on Friday afternoon/evening, on a regular business day, during the Atlantic Nationals car show. Where did all these folks parked?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/cars-show-moncton-automotive-1.4195353

Yes, I'll hear the argument that not all 100k attended at once, but I know for dam sure 10% were!

Parking for a 8500 sold out show at the Events Centre is not an issue.

[MonctonRad]

Most of the time parking will not be an issue. Even for Widcats games, the average attendance will be 4,000-5,000 (not 8,500).

BUT parking could be an issue in the wintertime when it is -20C, the roads are narrowed by snowbanks (hence no on street parking) and people are forced to consider parking lots where booters may or may not be lurking.

The parking issue won't go away, no matter how much the mayor and city council may want to deny it. Parking will be a major pain in the ass in January, February & March (which corresponds to the height of the season for both the Wildcats & the Magic). If the team owners begin to field lots of complaints, or if attendance starts to suffer as a result, then there will finally be pressure placed on city hall to do something about this.

In any event, it's time for the city to build a parking garage (or two) so that the acres of surface parking in the core can be redeveloped into something more meaningful. The city is growing..........

[CodiacCanuck]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

...In any event, it's time for the city to build a parking garage (or two) so that the acres of surface parking in the core can be redeveloped into something more meaningful. The city is growing..........

I couldn't agree more. All it would take is two strategically placed parking garages in the downtown area to alleviate this whole issue.

[flyer99]

Originally Posted by CodiacCanuck

I couldn't agree more. All it would take is two strategically placed parking garages in the downtown area to alleviate this whole issue.

I absolutely agree also. It's a no-brainer. The City has to realize that the majority of the events at the downtown centre will be during the winter months (hockey, basketball). Tell me where even 4,000-5,000 will be able to park as so accurately stated in the above post.

[flyer99]

Originally Posted by Budyser

100,000 people passed through Main street on Friday afternoon/evening, on a regular business day, during the Atlantic Nationals car show. Where did all these folks parked?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/cars-show-moncton-automotive-1.4195353

Yes, I'll hear the argument that not all 100k attended at once, but I know for dam sure 10% were!

Parking for a 8500 sold out show at the Events Centre is not an issue.

This article misstates the facts. It states that 100,000 people are expected for the one day event. The truth is that the organizers expect this crowd to attend over the THREE day event. Also, realize that this event goes on from the morning each day to early the next morning with only an overnight break. Hence, the attendees are not all trying to get a parking spot for one 2-3 hour event.

Also, in case anyone brings up the 100,000 people that attend the annual Santa Claus Parade, remember that except for the private lots using booters, the majority of businesses (like Atlantic Lottery for example) open up their lots for this "free" seasonal event. Don't expect them to do this for paid events at the new event centre.

[Patapouf26]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

In any event, it's time for the city to build a parking garage (or two) so that the acres of surface parking in the core can be redeveloped into something more meaningful. The city is growing..........

For me, this is THE only issue and argument for parking garages. If winter scares someone, then that person needs to get dropped off at the door by a friend or family or take public transit. If not, stay home. I've never had any problem finding a spot DT for any occasion. BUT, if we can get a few built to get rid of some of the surface parking to help spur development and densification, then that is certainly an angle I could get on board with.

Actually, I believe this issue is in the medium to long term urbanisation plan. During the last "Croissant and Conversation" urban planning session, it was mentioned a few times that they want to include parking garages in future developments and that these structures could also be used for public events (in others words, not only for tenants).

While we wait patiently for these, we'll just have to "suffer" for the next few years. Call me a "no-brainer"!

[Good2go]

Originally Posted by Patapouf26

If winter scares someone, then that person needs to get dropped off at the door by a friend or family or take public transit. If not, stay home.

It takes the city 3 days to plow the downtown sidewalks.

[Scarface]

Originally Posted by Good2go

It takes the city 3 days to plow the downtown sidewalks.

It can, and has taken them up to a week to clean the sidewalks.

[flyer99]

Originally Posted by Scarface

It can, and has taken them up to a week to clean the sidewalks.

With the downtown events centre the City is going to have to rethink and revise many things such as downtown snow clearing, public transit, parking garages, etc. Otherwise this events centre is going to be a big bust!

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by flyer99

With the downtown events centre the City is going to have to rethink and revise many things such as downtown snow clearing, public transit, parking garages, etc. Otherwise this events centre is going to be a big bust!

If your typical 72 year old male Wildcats fan slips and falls while walking from a remote parking spot to the events centre after a storm, litigation will dictate that the city "should have reasonably seen" such an eventuality. Expect big bucks payouts. This is what will drive the construction of a convenient parking garage.......

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by Patapouf26

Actually, I believe this issue is in the medium to long term urbanisation plan. During the last "Croissant and Conversation" urban planning session, it was mentioned a few times that they want to include parking garages in future developments and that these structures could also be used for public events (in others words, not only for tenants).

All the City of Moncton needs to do in the short/medium-term is construct two separate 350/500-space parking facilities at each end of Downtown. Have them be public, 24 hours, and open to whomever wants to use them. They don't have to be tied to residences or companies. Public-use buildings for downtown. Once those are constructed you can start mopping up the seas of surface parking that litter the rest of the area. The City of Ottawa does this tremendously well, in particular the enclosed lot at 141 Clarence. The streetfront presence is designed in a way so that you'd have no idea there was even a parking garage inside without creeping in through the entrances.

IMO there should have been a parking structure constructed tied-in to the new Events Centre but unfortunately it's going to have to wait for the Events Centre to prove its economic worth before that possibility sees the light of day.

[Scarface]

Originally Posted by flyer99

With the downtown events centre the City is going to have to rethink and revise many things such as downtown snow clearing, public transit, parking garages, etc. Otherwise this events centre is going to be a big bust!

Agreed

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

If your typical 72 year old male Wildcats fan slips and falls while walking from a remote parking spot to the events centre after a storm, litigation will dictate that the city "should have reasonably seen" such an eventuality. Expect big bucks payouts. This is what will drive the construction of a convenient parking garage.......

I'm a lot younger then 72 but did slip, and fall, and hurt myself pretty bad at a Bus Terminal point, and it din't take them to long to come clean it up +. The city should already know but don't seem to have learned from the passed.

Originally Posted by JHikka

All the City of Moncton needs to do in the short/medium-term is construct two separate 350/500-space parking facilities at each end of Downtown. Have them be public, 24 hours, and open to whomever wants to use them. They don't have to be tied to residences or companies. Public-use buildings for downtown. Once those are constructed you can start mopping up the seas of surface parking that litter the rest of the area. The City of Ottawa does this tremendously well, in particular the enclosed lot at 141 Clarence. The streetfront presence is designed in a way so that you'd have no idea there was even a parking garage inside without creeping in through the entrances.

IMO there should have been a parking structure constructed tied-in to the new Events Centre but unfortunately it's going to have to wait for the Events Centre to prove its economic worth before that possibility sees the light of day.

Should have been but none. You would think they would have thought about building a parking structure I wonder if one will be built behind the Main Street fronted building there hoping someone builds on the other lot (The old HBC parking lot) that would look similar to Ottawa's Clarence Street Parking structure The only difference would be it's entrance/exit would have to be off "Highfield Street", and not Main Street but it would look even less obvious minus the Parking signs.

[MonctonRad]

I suspect the city knows it has a problem with parking for the events centre, but is purposely downplaying the issue because they can't afford to do anything about it!!

The centre itself is costing $110M or so. The city also has to plan for a new police station (purportedly $40M) and has also made a commitment for a new north end community centre (likely another $10-15M). That's a total of $170M or so of new expenditures for the city. In other words - the cupboard is bare!!!

For the foreseeable future, the only way we are going to see a new parking structure in the core is if it is privately financed. This is regrettable because I strongly believe that parking structures would kickstart the redevelopment of all the surface parking lots in the core.

This is how a plan could be developed to end surface parking in the core:
1) - The city builds a couple of moderate to large parking structures in the core.
2) - This will reduce the demand for surface parking.
3) - The city should then develop a new tax regime increasing the property taxes on all properties in the downtown core used solely for surface parking.
4) - This will make it more expensive to maintain the surface parking lots and the parking rates on these surface lots will therefore have to go up.
5) - As parking rates go up, the new parking garages will become attractive alternatives for downtown workers.
6) - Usage of the downtown surface lots will begin to go down. As usage goes down, the surface lots become unprofitable.
7) - The owners of the surface lots will therefore have to come up with alternate uses for their downtown lands in order to remain profitable and to be able to pay their property taxes.
8) - Surface lots will disappear as they are sold or repurposed for condos, downtown public housing and commercial uses.
9) - The downtown suddenly becomes livable rather than a barren wasteland (at least south of Main).

This plan is a bit Machiavellian yes, but is simple and effective and really only requires two actions on the part of the city.
1) - Build the parking structures
2) - increase the tax rate on surface parking lots.
Everything else would happen organically.