Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by mykl

You've all failed to remember that one of the 5 residential neighbourhoods in the Rendezvous Lebreton plan is called Pimisi, so there will in fact be SOMETHING to back up the name geographically.

"The RendezVous LeBreton plan is predicated on five distinct neighbourhoods, three of which are also slated to be built in the first phase. Quartier LeBreton and Pimisi will be located along Albert Street, while Aqueduct will hug the restored aqueduct in the centre of the redevelopment." http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/rendezvous-lebreton-first-decade-plan-1.3562836

Will those be officially adopted or even catch on? Remember "Lansdowne Live"?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Dado

As I was specifically referring to the SJAM segment and integrating it into its surroundings, which could have been at grade were it not for NIMBYism and the NCC's curious obsession with ensuring that a handful of visitors arriving by car have an unspoiled view of the landfilled shoreline, there's little that would have made an at-grade LRT comparable to the Transitway buses currently plying the SJAM. With no curves for rail squeal and no need for points/switches, there wouldn't be any of the usual causes of rail noise. Noise would be negligible; residents backing onto it would notice a train going by only because it would momentarily interrupt the din from the cars on the parkway beyond.

The "need" for grade separation everywhere and always has never been rationalized, especially outside the downtown tunnel: it's just been taken as some kind of assumed given. Since LRT doesn't require grade separation as often as BRT for the same passenger capacity, it's all a little suspect. The buses have managed for 30 years with traffic lights at Dominion and Lincoln Fields; I think we could have managed a couple of pedestrian crossings between Dominion and Cleary without elaborate overpasses or tunnels. One of the consequences is that it makes our LRT builds far more pricey than they need to be, thus we get less network.

That segment, and the Richmond-Byron segment to the west, could have been designed more like the LRT systems in Calgary and Edmonton.

Something like this could have been done along the SJAM, with paths running parallel. Note the fencing, which is understated: it's clear that it's fencing, but it's not the neurotic "we can't trust pedestrians" chainlink fencing that prevails in Ottawa:

And a pedestrian crossing:


This is the sort of arrangement that would have been possible for most of the Richmond-Byron segment (other than an underpass at Woodroffe), taking the foreground street to be Byron:

Not possible when we're talking about trains speeding at 100 km per hour at 2 minute frequencies (ultimately).

Calgary and Edmonton built their systems in the 70s and 80s with populations of half a million. We're more in line with Montreal and Toronto of the 50s and 60s with well over a million (metro area).

While Edmonton os regressing back to "classic" lrt (with issues and complaints based on what I have read), Calgary is planning more grade separation in their new green line (while still less than Ottawa).

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Dado

The "need" for grade separation everywhere and always has never been rationalized, especially outside the downtown tunnel: it's just been taken as some kind of assumed given. Since LRT doesn't require grade separation as often as BRT for the same passenger capacity, it's all a little suspect. The buses have managed for 30 years with traffic lights at Dominion and Lincoln Fields; I think we could have managed a couple of pedestrian crossings between Dominion and Cleary without elaborate overpasses or tunnels. One of the consequences is that it makes our LRT builds far more pricey than they need to be, thus we get less network.

I gather the Citadis Spirit is capable of operating driverless, but Ottawa is planning on, at least initially, having a driver. I wonder if the "need" for grade separation and fencing is to keep the option open for future driverless operation. Grade separation becomes more important when the trains are driverless, though if you can build a driverless car, it should be possible to make a driverless train that can see "obstacles" on the tracks.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Not possible when we're talking about trains speeding at 100 km per hour at 2 minute frequencies (ultimately).

Speed could be a factor, though initially we are only running at 80 km/h.

We're more in line with Montreal and Toronto of the 50s and 60s with well over a million (metro area).

Maybe Toronto when they built their system in the 50's but, metro Montreal had a population of about 2.5 million in 1966 (when they built their system), which is about double metro Ottawa's current population of about 1.3 million.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Speed could be a factor, though initially we are only running at 80 km/h.



Maybe Toronto when they built their system in the 50's but, metro Montreal had a population of about 2.5 million in 1966 (when they built their system), which is about double metro Ottawa's current population of about 1.3 million.

More spacing between stations in stage 2, so higher speeds are to be anticipated.

You're right. We can't quite compare ourselves to Montreal in the 60s. But we can compare Ottawa to Vancouver in the mid-80s when they built the Skytrain.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

You're right. We can't quite compare ourselves to Montreal in the 60s. But we can compare Ottawa to Vancouver in the mid-80s when they built the Skytrain.

I definitely agree! I can see a lot of parallels between the two projects. One big difference is Vancouver had a tunnel they could re-purpose for the project.

I have said it before, but Vancouver's biggest mistake was (and is) continuously extending their Expo line further and further out of town. To make things worse, unlike the Confederation line, it is single ended so the downtown tunnel is only effectively used in one direction during peak periods. I've never understood why they haven't continued from Waterfront Station along East Hastings to Kootenay Loop via the PNE Grounds. They could have then connected that to what is now the Millennium line.

[J.OT13]

I posted these a few weeks ago;

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Interesting station concepts. Might have been from one of the losing consortium.

Here's campus;



Lees;



Blair;



LeBreton;



Tunney;




Lots more can be found here;


http://www.dhrendering.com/lowrise.asp

Well, I think I found the second finalists;

Tremblay;



Cyrville;



Tunney's;



Bayview;



Lees;



http://avoidobvious.com/visualization/portfolio/ottawa-light-rail-transit/

They only have the 5 images of 10 station designs.

Not sure who designed the underground stations for those two consortiums. Not that the RTG designs for the downtown subway stations were actually implemented.

[zzptichka]

First escalator arriving to Rideau station

[Kitchissippi]

I've got tickets for Kontinuum on the 17th. Ya think they'll be done in two weeks?











Also, interesting detail — the west headhouse seems to be like a glorified bus shelter. The glass panels stand off from the structure a few inches meaning there won't be much climate control, I guess its secondary function is a tunnel vent shaft

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

ting detail — the west headhouse seems to be like a glorified bus shelter. The glass panels stand off from the structure a few inches meaning there won't be much climate control, I guess its secondary function is a tunnel vent shaft

I believe the "lantern wall" as they call it is supposed to be in that corner, so it might be deceiving at this point.

[Kitchissippi]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

I believe the "lantern wall" as they call it is supposed to be in that corner, so it might be deceiving at this point.

Regardless, those vent grills are open and the spaces between the glass are not sealed. If it is hot and humid out I suspect is won't be any different inside (it will be cooler underground though), and if it -20˚C being in that headhouse would be enough to get you out of the wind chill, just like a bus shelter. I'm not complaining, just saying we can't expect a Montreal Metro style of indoor station.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

I've got tickets for Kontinuum on the 17th. Ya think they'll be done in two weeks?

From the above picture, I suspect that they are putting a temporary, plywood facade on the entrance for the show. Once it is over, they will remove the plywood and finish the entrance. You can't tell from the pictures the status of the station inside. If it is mostly complete, they will be good to go.

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Regardless, those vent grills are open and the spaces between the glass are not sealed. If it is hot and humid out I suspect is won't be any different inside (it will be cooler underground though), and if it -20˚C being in that headhouse would be enough to get you out of the wind chill, just like a bus shelter. I'm not complaining, just saying we can't expect a Montreal Metro style of indoor station.

The station is likely pressurized (from pumping fresh air in and from trains moving through the tunnel), so air will be escaping through the vents, and none will come in, so that won't be a problem. Without the vents, the doors wouldn't stay closed.

As far as the glass, not being sealed, they will likely inject a sealant into the cracks to prevent dust from accumulating in them.

[1overcosc]

The updates in May and June for Lyon station were talking about things like tiling, painting the walls, and putting in escalators. To me that indicates that the station interior is probably mostly complete.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Regardless, those vent grills are open and the spaces between the glass are not sealed. If it is hot and humid out I suspect is won't be any different inside (it will be cooler underground though), and if it -20˚C being in that headhouse would be enough to get you out of the wind chill, just like a bus shelter. I'm not complaining, just saying we can't expect a Montreal Metro style of indoor station.

Is that really a problem though? People don't wait for the trains in the headhouse, they wait for the trains on the underground platforms.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Is that really a problem though? People don't wait for the trains in the headhouse, they wait for the trains on the underground platforms.

Trains no, but buses yes and the wait for those is longer.

As I said before though, the station will be pressurized so air won't be coming in through those vents so I don't see it being a big issue.

[Catenary]

Originally Posted by roger1818

As far as the glass, not being sealed, they will likely inject a sealant into the cracks to prevent dust from accumulating in them.

The Trillium Line faregate structures use the same type of glass, and the gaps between glass panels were filled with silicon a couple weeks after being installed.

[J.OT13]

Those grates above the subway entrance are pretty standard.

Here's one in Montreal;



Not al station entrances seem to have them in Toronto and Montreal. It might be due to the nature of the entrance (direct to station concourse, or through the PATH/RESO type systems, station depth maybe..?, possibly near by stairs in the sidewalk entrances..?)

[J.OT13]

Did anyone know Ottawa use to have something of a subway station? It was the terminus of the Hull Electric Streetcar, terminating under the Plaza Bridge and then turning around under Rideau before heading back to Hull via the Interprovincial Bridge. Here's a pic of the Château Laurier. See the two canopies on either side of the hotel's terrace beside the canal. Those are stairs to the station.



And here is the turnaround tunnel, now the OttawaRentABike.


https://www.hikebiketravel.com/35182/what-you-can-do-in-2-hours-in-ottawa-on-a-bike/

[AndyMEng]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Those grates above the subway entrance are pretty standard.

Here's one in Montreal;



Not al station entrances seem to have them in Toronto and Montreal. It might be due to the nature of the entrance (direct to station concourse, or through the PATH/RESO type systems, station depth maybe..?, possibly near by stairs in the sidewalk entrances..?)

Wind pressure from the trains comes from all directions and exits at the easiest path. Ever try to leave a station only to get blasted out of the doorway? For the same reason the Metro doors open freely in both directions to allow for the insane overpressure to relieve itself.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Did anyone know Ottawa use to have something of a subway station? It was the terminus of the Hull Electric Streetcar, terminating under the Plaza Bridge and then turning around under Rideau before heading back to Hull via the Interprovincial Bridge. Here's a pic of the Château Laurier. See the two canopies on either side of the hotel's terrace beside the canal. Those are stairs to the station.



And here is the turnaround tunnel, now the OttawaRentABike.


https://www.hikebiketravel.com/35182/what-you-can-do-in-2-hours-in-ottawa-on-a-bike/

Great photo! The first time I have seen the old Hull Electric turnaround tunnel at the Chateau. I wish we could return it to its original use.

I have seen a number of old photos next to the Chateau that show a covered stairway going down from the street. I have presumed that provided access to the Hull streetcars.