General Update/Rumour thread [Urban Ottawa]

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

If Vanier, which is the last hard-scrabble, close-in neighbourhood to the core to start gentrifying (and it has started, contrary to popular belief) becomes the unofficial dumping ground for anything that the rest of the city doesn't want, then that is nothing less than pure institutional classism on the part of the city of Ottawa and its various civil society actors.

Does that mean you give no credence to the SA's explanation that this is an opportunity for them to build a better facility on a site they already own? I wonder if, pressures apart, it isn't financially attractive for them to shed the Market site, assuming that's what they're planning.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

If Vanier, which is the last hard-scrabble, close-in neighbourhood to the core to start gentrifying (and it has started, contrary to popular belief) becomes the unofficial dumping ground for anything that the rest of the city doesn't want, then that is nothing less than pure institutional classism on the part of the city of Ottawa and its various civil society actors.

Are you saying you believe that they're above that?

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Vanier's feeble NIMBYism will end up on the losing end of this. That I am sure.

Without a doubt. The rest of Ottawa's NIMBY chapters will be salivating at the prospect of sending all of their undesirable stuff to Montreal Road now.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Isn't that how the market got all of these institutions in the first place?

The institutions went to where the need/demand was.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

I wonder if Sally Ann will take up the motel and the sizeable parking lot behind, it seems to be all one property. I think they can do something dignified in there, maybe with an inner courtyard. I hope they get enough money for innovative architecture that works for the community

I do, too.

I just hope that this move isn't the pretext for city hall and the developers to nudge everything else that's considered unpretty out of the Market and into Vanier (or whoever else might be the dumping ground), (a) because the demand for services for homeless people is actually concentrated in the downtown core, and (b) it makes no sense to deal with the supposed "problem" of having a concentration of services in one small area, by relocating that concentration to another small area (and one where the demand isn't.)

Maybe while they are at their early-20th-century thinking, the city could also locate some noxious industries to the east end, too. Worked for every other city in the northern hemisphere.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Does that mean you give no credence to the SA's explanation that this is an opportunity for them to build a better facility on a site they already own? I wonder if, pressures apart, it isn't financially attractive for them to shed the Market site, assuming that's what they're planning.

I think their rationale makes perfect sense.

I just have a sneaky suspicion that the subterranean debate about what to do about the seedy underbelly of Ottawa, which has been quietly raging for years, has settled on "Montreal Road" as the answer... which is not a good answer.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Are you saying you believe that they're above that?

Do I believe that Ottawa's civil society is above classism?

Oh, jebus, no. It's classism all the way down.

[acottawa]

There is no good place to put such a facility. Whatever euphemisms they might use, nobody wants to concentrate people with mental health and addiction issues in their neighbourhood. The current policy of putting three such facilities in a 600m stretch is clearly not a good one. Vanier has the advantage of being fairly central and having affordable land. To put this facility in another central neighbourhood (Centretown, Glebe, Sandy Hill, Little Italy, etc) would require the Sally Ann to raise millions of dollars more.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by acottawa

The current policy of putting three such facilities in a 600m stretch is clearly not a good one.

What "policy" is that?

Vanier has the advantage of being fairly central and having affordable land.

And, more importantly, almost nothing in the way of organized political opposition... though that could change, quickly.

To put this facility in another central neighbourhood (Centretown, Glebe, Sandy Hill, Little Italy, etc) would require the Sally Ann to raise millions of dollars more.

If land is so cheap, the city should start buying properties now for the Montreal-Rideau subway marshalling and station-shaft sites.

[FutureWickedCity]

Does anyone know what's getting built on Carling in front of the Lincoln Fields mall? where the Chinese Buffet used to be?

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

What "policy" is that?

The policy whereby the city approved three large shelters in a 600m stretch (not sure the order of original approval).

[downtown_eddie_brown]

I'm a homeowner in Vanier, not too far from where this shelter is being proposed, so I have my share of concerns about it. I agree that Vanier is changing, and I certainly wouldn't want to see the momentum derailed by a poorly planned or managed shelter.

That said, in concept, I don't think a shelter needs to be a blight on an area if built and managed properly. The Taggart YMCA on O'Connor has a huge family shelter component, but also has a lot of amenities for locals to use, and operates as a community center for the area in addition to providing homeless services.

What I worry about is that instead of proposing a forward-thinking facility that enhances or integrates with the community, we'll get a fat short single-use monolith. I look forward to hearing more about this project before I turn into Nimby Hulk.

[Acajack]

Looked up the address for the new Salvation Army in Vanier, and it's further to the east than I thought it would be.

It's actually quite close to one of the "nicer" parts of Vanier.

Iif you go up Granville there are still lots of modest well-kept houses still inhabited by your mononcle Fernand and matante Georgette who've always lived there and still plant flowers, mow the lawn diligently and paint the fence every year. Most elsewhere in Vanier this demographic left the building quite some time ago.

And then a bit further and nestled into the cemetery lands you also have Pauline Charron and Ida Rocheleau, which is are Orleans-style SFH streets mostly inhabited by a small group of Franco-Ontarian élite people who I guess want to make a statement about (still) living in Vanier.

[rocketphish]

Originally Posted by FutureWickedCity

Does anyone know what's getting built on Carling in front of the Lincoln Fields mall? where the Chinese Buffet used to be?

Dymon Storage:
http://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?p=7576158

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by acottawa

The policy whereby the city approved three large shelters in a 600m stretch (not sure the order of original approval).

I would suspect the presence of at least one or two of them long predate the city's power to "approve" or "disapprove" anything of the sort.

This:

http://mathieufleury.ca/salvation-army-statement-mp-mona-fortier-mpp-nathalie-desrosiers/

... would strongly suggest that there may be political headwinds.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

This:

http://mathieufleury.ca/salvation-army-statement-mp-mona-fortier-mpp-nathalie-desrosiers/

... would strongly suggest that there may be political headwinds.

A sound political strategy - be seen as making lots of noise so you can tell constituents you fought the good fight.

But none of them want it to stay in its present location. None of them will want to suggest another location within their respective constituencies and none of their colleagues in other constituencies want to host the facility either, so bluster may be the extent of the strategy.

[citydwlr]

Passed by the corner of Kent and Slater yesterday and noticed one of the Government Buildings is getting a new paint job; it's going from boring brown to gloomy grey:
https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.4185149,-...4nLHqIfe1WE4vAKmi09Ng!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Not sure how this will look in the end... One small section on the lower half of the building along slater has been painted, and I think part of the East-facing wall as well.

[J.OT13]

Rendering of Vanier Salvation Army proposal, designed by Barry Hobin;


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/salvation-army-emergency-shelter-byward-vanier-1.4172483

[rocketphish]

Time for a new thread...

The Salvation Army Shelter discussion can continue over here:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=228844

[ars]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the St Laurent branch library/Don Gamble community centre be less than a kilometre from the SA site?

Ah you're right, not too familiar with that area. Still, maybe the new shelter can offer something else to the community that the community does not yet have.