General Phoenix Metro Discussion Thread

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by dtnphx

I couldn't agree more exit2lef. Phoenix is what it is. It's more urban than it's ever been, and maybe urban is a different notion when it's in a desert! Besides, most of those other cities were full-fledged cities over a hundred years ago, so I say pfft!

Talton had his moments years ago when he lived here, but in general his musing about Phoenix sound more like a child who had mommy/daddy issues. Time for him to process them and move on.

I hate reading these articles as they seem to just bash Phoenix more than anything. Why is there never any mention of Houston when it comes to city size vs population? Houston is bigger in sq. mileage, just as sprawled and about the same density as Phoenix. Let's not mention hurricanes and the fact most of Houston is built on top of a swamp. But I never here an argument that Houston is not a real city or should have never have been built on a swamp.

The thing with Phoenix that NEVER seems to be taken into account with it's population vs land percentage is that Phoenix has a very large amount of land that is dedicated to some really large preserves. Probably more than any other city in the country. If you take away the 65 or so sq. miles of undeveloped preserve land, AND add to that all the undeveloped land...which is much greater chunk than Philadelphia....Phoenix all of a sudden becomes a denser city...about 4300-4500 per square mile give or take. Not anywhere near Phili's 11,500 per square mile...but higher than some other "real" cities. Cincinnati, Columbus, Indianapolis, Atlanta, Nashville and many other "urban" cities don't break 4,000 per square mile. Heck, Nashville doesn't even break 2,000. Pittsburgh barely breaks the 5,000 mark. Phoenix is denser than most people admit.

I would also like to point out that the article mentions that the Phoenix metro is "not even in the top 10". Well, we are still #12. I tend to think when the 2020 census comes out, we will be #11...maybe even #10. Maricopa County is of course the fastest growing county in the nation. So I'm sure the suburbs have added a pretty good chunk of population too. Also, Phoenix is not Philadelphia's only worry. San Antonio is hot on their heals and they will probably take the number 6 spot in a few more years.

Sorry...rant over. I just hate these articles. AZ Central never seems to have much pride in Phoenix.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

I would also like to point out that the article mentions that the Phoenix metro is "not even in the top 10". Well, we are still #12. I tend to think when the 2020 census comes out, we will be #11...maybe even #10. Maricopa County is of course the fastest growing county in the nation. So I'm sure the suburbs have added a pretty good chunk of population too. Also, Phoenix is not Philadelphia's only worry. San Antonia is hot on their heals and they will probably take the number 6 spot in a few more years.

Not to mention that one of the cities touted as "real" -- Seattle -- anchors a smaller metro area than Phoenix (#15 vs #12 in current population rankings). That's not a bash against Seattle. In fact, I was there just 10 days ago and was impressed by Link light rail and all the new construction. On the other hand, Seattle is one of the few cities to shut down a bikeshare system, so no place is perfect. My point, however, is that saying Phoenix is somehow unreal as a city based on being outside the top 10 metro areas doesn't make sense when the author and her most frequently quoted source invoke a smaller metro area as an example of a city more "real" than Phoenix.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Some news on the 'Yotes. LeBlanc is out as an owner and new hope they could come to Downtown. It would be great if this new ownership could rekindle interests in a shared arena with the Suns.


http://www.12news.com/sports/coyotes-own...-way-to-downtown-phoenix-arena/448061143

[CrestedSaguaro]

An excellent rebuttal of the Arizona Republic story...which makes some points a few of us had already mentioned. Glad to see KTAR sticking up for Phoenix!


https://www.google.com/amp/ktar.com/story/1618110/is-phoenix-a-real-city-and-should-i-care/amp/

[KEVINphx]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

An excellent rebuttal of the Arizona Republic story...which makes some points a few of us had already mentioned. Glad to see KTAR sticking up for Phoenix!


https://www.google.com/amp/ktar.com/story/1618110/is-phoenix-a-real-city-and-should-i-care/amp/

Meh, I'm a native here and I don't like that article. NO not everyone moving here loves liberalized gun laws and "wide open spaces" whatever that means.

The writer of this op-ed sounds petty and politicized the issue.

[PHX-DUDE-MAN]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

An excellent rebuttal of the Arizona Republic story...which makes some points a few of us had already mentioned. Glad to see KTAR sticking up for Phoenix!


https://www.google.com/amp/ktar.com/story/1618110/is-phoenix-a-real-city-and-should-i-care/amp/

Yeah for real! Phoenix is a newer city compared to most cities in the US and has been one of the fastest growing cities for a long time now. Of course it's not going to be as dense or urban as most older cities but we are certainly moving in the right direction. Glad KTAR has some pride, I appreciate Phoenix, and I understand why it is the way it is.

[nickw252]

This oughta irk Jon Talton:

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2017/06/15/boeing-moving-hundreds-of-jobs-to-arizona.html

Although, similar to his comment about Phoenix not having any major universities- "The only real university is two branch campuses of Arizona State University"- Jon'll probably split hairs saying that the Boeing jobs are going to Mesa and not Phoenix.

[Buckeye Native 001]

I still read his blog (Rogue Columnist) but it irritates me to no end that all he ever seems to do is bitch without offering any real solutions for any of his pet peeves about modern day Phoenix. I consider myself to be pretty cynical, but the whole "I was right about this all along"/"Nothing will change"/"Seattle is a real city" (it is, but still...) gets tiresome.

I get that Phoenix was probably a great little town in the 1950s and 1960s and suffered a huge loss in and around it's core throughout the latter half of the 20th Century, but as someone born in the early 1980s with no frame of reference beyond historical photos (my family moved to Suburban Phoenix from Suburban Cincinnati in 1996), what is going on downtown right now is unprecedented, in a good way.

There's still a long way for Phoenix to evolve from an urban development standpoint (I'm a big fan of low and midrise development and infill, couldn't really care less about ground floor retail so long as what's being built is sustainable) and ASU Downtown has helped tremendously. However, I'm not an urban planner so I can only subjectively argue aesthetics.

Is Phoenix being the best Phoenix it can be? For the most part, yes. I'm also biased because even though I live in Flagstaff, this state depends on what we up here call "The Great State of Maricopa" to succeed, seeing as how 2/3 of the state's population (if not more) live somewhere in and around The Valley. I have no desire whatsoever to move back to Phoenix, but I (and I'm sure a lot of other people) want it to do well for the stability/viability of the rest of Arizona.

[dtnphx]

I had posted my letter on this on Phoenix Development Forum...figured since you guys were talking about this. Here's my letter and responses back from Talton.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dtnphx View Post
Here's my response I sent to him just now...

Mr. Talton:


I have read every one of your inaccurate and miserable tomes on Phoenix for a decade. You seem to have a really bad chip on your shoulder about this city. It's though you are working out your childhood issues that you haven't come to grips with yet about this town. You mock and deride this city from a point of view of 20 years ago, when in fact, this city is quite different than the city you portray. Trying to compare a city like Seattle to Phoenix or Philadelphia to Phoenix is just stupid. What city doesn't want to promote their milestones when it grows. Other cities would kill for the growth Phoenix is experiencing.

You seem mad that people keep moving here. I realize this city has it's problems, and so do most large American cities. However, there is a renewed sense of purpose happening in Phoenix and Tempe that does not reflect what you write about. People are not flocking to the edges of the Valley--quite the opposite! I'm in commercial real estate...I know this for a fact. Most every lot and parcel in Central and East Phoenix as well as Downtown Scottsdale and Tempe are being snatched up to build creative, mixed-use, urban places. New restaurants, greater transportation choices and a solid infrastructure make this city very livable, affordable and yes, easy to live. If you expected this city to sit dormant for you to have the comfort of halcyon days gone by, sorry to disappoint.


Every time there's a new article about Phoenix from you, you paint yourself into a corner and are universally laughed at for your cynical take on a city that many of us love, despite your snarky observations. If you're happy in Seattle, please sir, stay there and wait for Seattle, as it continues to progress, to disappoint you.
Well, I got a response from that fat windbag:

His response to the above: Thanks for reading. Realty hurts.
My response to that: You're an ass
His response to me: Stay classy
My response to that: Hope you deal with your anger soon

Actually, I'm glad he responded...probably firing all cylinders for his next hit piece on Phoenix.

[biggus diggus]

Originally Posted by dtnphx

Well, I got a response from that fat windbag:

His response to the above: Thanks for reading. Realty hurts.
My response to that: You're an ass
His response to me: Stay classy
My response to that: Hope you deal with your anger soon

This is one of the more ironic posts I've read here. Funny.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by dtnphx

Well, I got a response from that fat windbag:

His response to the above: Thanks for reading. Realty hurts.
My response to that: You're an ass
His response to me: Stay classy
My response to that: Hope you deal with your anger soon

Actually, I'm glad he responded...probably firing all cylinders for his next hit piece on Phoenix.

Realty or reality? Realty hurt a lot of people 10 years ago, but Talton made out pretty well on the sale of his Willo home when he left Phoenix.

[dtnphx]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

This is one of the more ironic posts I've read here. Funny.

You should join him in Seattle, high atop your perch, bemoaning the downfall together (with a forward by you and the end of all apartment growth). You'd make quite a team. Now, THAT's funny!

[biggus diggus]

Oh come on, it was funny. You called the guy names and then said he's angry.

[fawd]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

Oh come on, it was funny. You called the guy names and then said he's angry.

It was pretty good, haha

[SunDevil]

Phoenix is America's newest metropolis. It didn't even pass Honolulu in population until the 1960 census. It really doesn't have a peer in that department. Any other city that has experienced most of it's growth from 1950 on has no room to talk shit about Phoenix.

Can the city be more walkable and urban? Absolutley it can. Can boosters of other cities boast of growth from 100k in 1950 to 1,400k in 2010. Nope. So they can continue with constructive criticism, and hold thier anti-Phoenix opinion's to themselves.

[dtnphx]

Originally Posted by SunDevil

Phoenix is America's newest metropolis. It didn't even pass Honolulu in population until the 1960 census. It really doesn't have a peer in that department. Any other city that has experienced most of it's growth from 1950 on has no room to talk shit about Phoenix.

Can the city be more walkable and urban? Absolutley it can. Can boosters of other cities boast of growth from 100k in 1950 to 1,400k in 2010. Nope. So they can continue with constructive criticism, and hold thier anti-Phoenix opinion's to themselves.

[exit2lef]

Did anyone catch last night's screening of "Citizen Jane" at the Phoenix Center for the Arts? The movie was obviously slanted to celebrate Jane Jacobs at the expense of her adversary Robert Moses, but I still found it very good. I've seldom seen a 90-minute documentary with the kind of pacing and storytelling that makes it seem shorter than its actual running time.

There was a panel discussion afterward, which I found 2/3 good. Two out of three speakers had good observations about how Jacobs' lesson might or might not apply in Phoenix, but one used the occasion for excessive negativity and unfair criticism. I left during the Q&A, which seemed to be heading in the direction of amplifying the negativity. Still, it was overall a good evening.

I think this was the only theatrical screening in Phoenix, but I assume the film will be available via streaming or on DVD in the near future. I'd definitely recommend checking it out when available.

[crwhiteinaz]

Hey guys,

I created a google chrome extension that I hope is helpful to us when we need to get info from the PBJ but don't have a subscription.

https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detai...bikmbjoilmfkcgoalpkcfhgcnd/related?hl=en

Add the extension, visit a PBJ premium page and click on the extension icon in the browser's extension toolbar. Poof. Requirement to subscribe is gone and you can read the article.

[ljbuild]

I was in Dallas texas recently and noticed that their Downtown is
EXPLODING IN HIGHRISES and Development a lot more so than Downtown PHOENIX.
I know DTWN. Phoenix has made some strides, However, it looks like nothing compared to what has happened and IS HAPPENING in Downtown Dallas.

This brings me to my point:

WOULD YOU RATHER PUT UP WITH 110 + TEMPERTURES
OR
TORNADOES THAT HAPPEN EVERY YEAR IN DALLAS, TEXAS.

If I were a developer, I would want to construct something and an area free of natural disasters like, tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes and the like.

[biggus diggus]

Too bad that's not how people decide where to live.