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  #2221  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2017, 1:15 AM
Marshal Marshal is offline
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Yes we do. Wood grain looks good but wood isn't a good material when exposed to the elements. I've even seen hard tiles now that look like wood. They are excellent since they don't dent so easily like wood, and much much easier to replace.
You lack imagination.
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  #2222  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2017, 8:52 PM
nickbeaulieu nickbeaulieu is offline
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what exactly is the deal with that black cladding? It looks like utter garbage.
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  #2223  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2017, 9:01 PM
retro_orange retro_orange is offline
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The cladding is also horizontally buckling where it's attached to the concrete slabs (shrinkage of the concrete as it cures I suppose or expansion of the black sheeting from the sun hitting it) I noticed it on the train the other day. They attached it shortly after the slabs were poured, it probably needs to be removed and attached to a substrate to prevent future buckling.
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  #2224  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2017, 11:12 PM
towerseeker101 towerseeker101 is offline
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Originally Posted by nickbeaulieu View Post
what exactly is the deal with that black cladding? It looks like utter garbage.
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Originally Posted by retro_orange View Post
The cladding is also horizontally buckling where it's attached to the concrete slabs (shrinkage of the concrete as it cures I suppose or expansion of the black sheeting from the sun hitting it) I noticed it on the train the other day. They attached it shortly after the slabs were poured, it probably needs to be removed and attached to a substrate to prevent future buckling.
It looks to me like a protective paper/felt to cover the plywood underneath (like they use on single family homes). I could be wrong however, but the material choice would seem suspect in that case.
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  #2225  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2017, 11:23 PM
Vin Vin is offline
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You lack imagination.
Maybe I do, but I didn't design this building, which looks good BTW.
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  #2226  
Old Posted Jun 13, 2017, 11:30 PM
nickbeaulieu nickbeaulieu is offline
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Originally Posted by towerseeker101 View Post
It looks to me like a protective paper/felt to cover the plywood underneath (like they use on single family homes). I could be wrong however, but the material choice would seem suspect in that case.
Based on the renderings I don't think this is the final product. You're right, in one shot especially it does indeed look like a membrane
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  #2227  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2017, 8:40 AM
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It is called 'oil canning,' and happens to all lightweight metal sheet cladding. It changes with temperature expansion/contraction, but is inherent to the material regardless. It is actually a very slight deformation, but under most lighting conditions it is very visible.

This used to be an infrequent problem because metal cladding used to be thicker when applied in this way. This is why most metal cladding is corrugated or otherwise incorporates its own surface structure.

What has happened over the last while, is that some leading or progressive architects started to use thin metal sheet cladding within tile or geometrically defined designs which enabled them to take advantage of 'extreme' oil canning as a design texture within the overall sharp geometry of the application.

And of course, that lead to problems and the issue at hand - lesser architects not getting the design restraint issue correct and instead, producing a stupid looking/sloppy surface. Before the 1980's, if you saw this you knew right away that someone miscalculated. Now, it is just a bad manifestation of an idea that should not have been used.

The fact that horizontal structure is telegraphing through is evidence that they didn't think things through enough - the cladding is not acting as an independent element with regard to temperature transmission, differential movement (unlikely), structural deflection, etc. The fact that what you see are very slight deformations might have fooled them when they were specifying and detailing, but the fact they did not consider the effect (under sun light) shows an error on their part.
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  #2228  
Old Posted Jun 14, 2017, 11:58 PM
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Speaking of cladding... I'm not in the construction/architecture industry/nor an expert on such things...... But authorities are investigating now if the cladding used was a cause to the recent major highrise fire in London. Same goes with the Dubai skyscraper engulfed by fire about two years ago.. cladding used or the use/design of it anyway was a 'suspect'/or now officially the cause/acted like an accelerant anyway. Anyhow.. just an fyi.

https://www.thestar.com/business/2016/01...-a-dubai-hotel-fire-into-an-inferno.html
https://www.ft.com/content/ac096c9a-50e1-11e7-a1f2-db19572361bb and if you can't access that, see here.. http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/14/grenfell-t...dditional-fire-risk-says-expert-6708305/

Last edited by HelloKitty; Jun 15, 2017 at 12:16 AM.
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  #2229  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2017, 12:21 AM
Spr0ckets Spr0ckets is online now
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Originally Posted by HelloKitty View Post
Speaking of cladding... I'm not in the construction/architecture industry/nor an expert on such things...... But authorities are investigating now if the cladding used was a cause to the recent major highrise fire in London. Same goes with the Dubai skyscraper engulfed by fire about two years ago.. cladding used or the use/design of it anyway was a 'suspect'/or now officially the cause/acted like an accelerant anyway. Anyhow.. just an fyi.

https://www.thestar.com/business/2016/01...-a-dubai-hotel-fire-into-an-inferno.html
https://www.ft.com/content/ac096c9a-50e1-11e7-a1f2-db19572361bb and if you can't access that, see here.. http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/14/grenfell-t...dditional-fire-risk-says-expert-6708305/

It's doubtful it was the cause of the fire, but more likely they were an accelerant to a fire that began in the inside of the building.

And that's even assuming that those types of cladding were used in that building (that type of polyethylene foamcore cladding that was the cause of those Dubai skyscraper fires has only been in use in the construction industry for a little over the last decade and that building in England looked to be much older than that (built in 1974). Unless it had some refurbishments in the period since then in the last decade*.

Regardless, it's plausible that as an accelerant, the cladding might have made what could have been a smaller fire contained or limited to one floor, much worse by spreading it up the rest of the building and providing a alternative exterior path for the flames that circumvented the buildings inbuilt fire-retardant systems (such as sprinklers and fire-proofing of structural elements) - which are designed to prevent or reduce the spread of fire from floor to floor from the INSIDE of the building.

Edit : Reading the second article it seems the cladding might have made things worse in a different way than being an accelerant, i.e. by creating a 'wind tunnel effect' between the cladding superstructure and the insulation layer. Also it seems like the building had recently been re-cladded with newer cladding.
So it all depends on what type of cladding they used and what method of installation was employed and also if the building's fire safety standards had recently been reviewed to check and see if it complied with modern code.
A lot of times older buildings get grand-fathered into new system without checking to see if they conform to modern safety standards, and that may have happened in this case as well.

It also doesn't help in this case that the fire started in one of the lower floors (4th floor) and then spread upwards towards the rest of the 20 floors above it, cutting off the escape routes for a lot of people trapped in the floors above. Fire typically climbs upwards and rarely spreads down a building for obvious reasons.

*Yep.
It seems the building did undergo refurbishments recently to add the new cladding system, and for the stupidest reason imagineable.
Apparently the wealthier neighbours didn't want to look at an older bedraggled building that was built mostly for lower income families, and a planning ordinance was passed mandating the improvements, so as to 'improve the view' for their luxury-apartment dwelling neighbours.

If the cladding was the part of the cause of the fire (or made it worse) this would make it all even that much so worse still.
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  #2230  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2017, 4:41 AM
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not to go off topic but there is talk online that the fire was intentionally set due to the large amount of muslims living in the building, done for retaliation of recent bombings etc in the UK. Awful.

I wonder if sears will survive long enough to at least open when the first phase is done.
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  #2231  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2017, 5:32 AM
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not to go off topic but there is talk online that the fire was intentionally set due to the large amount of muslims living in the building, done for retaliation of recent bombings etc in the UK. Awful.

I wonder if sears will survive long enough to at least open when the first phase is done.
A lot of shit gets talked online.

Is there any evidence whatsoever for that?
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  #2232  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2017, 6:11 AM
Geof Geof is offline
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Originally Posted by Marshal View Post
It is called 'oil canning,' and happens to all lightweight metal sheet cladding. It changes with temperature expansion/contraction, but is inherent to the material regardless. It is actually a very slight deformation, but under most lighting conditions it is very visible.
I was down there today. I don't think the deformation is slight at all - ok, some of it is, but some of it really isn't. I think it is far too glaring to be accidental. I very much doubt that it is the final surface.

You can see slightly irregular horizontal seams where one piece meets another. In many places a dot is visible in the centre of the sheet near the seam, presumably made by some kind of fastener. The vertical elements between the sheets have a series of slots in them; these will surely be used to attach something else.

I also took a look at the computer renderings. These all show that building coloured white with a vertical pattern of lines. Maybe that has changed; maybe the vertical pattern is partly caused by a dark colour underneath. But the seams I saw would need horizontal elements to cover them up. I think folks here are jumping the gun.
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  #2233  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2017, 6:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Spr0ckets View Post
*Yep.
It seems the building did undergo refurbishments recently to add the new cladding system, and for the stupidest reason imagineable.
Apparently the wealthier neighbours didn't want to look at an older bedraggled building that was built mostly for lower income families, and a planning ordinance was passed mandating the improvements, so as to 'improve the view' for their luxury-apartment dwelling neighbours.

If the cladding was the part of the cause of the fire (or made it worse) this would make it all even that much so worse still.
Kinda ironic now too. If true, now they have even worse than a bedraggled older building in view..

Also it was mentioned in the news that the type of cladding used was deemed flammable in Germany and banned/not to regulations or something to that effect in the US.

Quite shocking too that there weren't fire alarms or none that went off at least. Those poor residents. It's sad..

Last edited by HelloKitty; Jun 16, 2017 at 6:54 AM.
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  #2234  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2017, 6:43 AM
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I was down there today. I don't think the deformation is slight at all - ok, some of it is, but some of it really isn't. I think it is far too glaring to be accidental. I very much doubt that it is the final surface.

You can see slightly irregular horizontal seams where one piece meets another. In many places a dot is visible in the centre of the sheet near the seam, presumably made by some kind of fastener. The vertical elements between the sheets have a series of slots in them; these will surely be used to attach something else.

I also took a look at the computer renderings. These all show that building coloured white with a vertical pattern of lines. Maybe that has changed; maybe the vertical pattern is partly caused by a dark colour underneath. But the seams I saw would need horizontal elements to cover them up. I think folks here are jumping the gun.
Yeah I don't think it's gonna be the final surface material either.. In the section where they attached the cladding.. months ago before the cladding was there I was seeing the aluminum frame surrounding each glass panel and it didn't look quite nice like it didn't look like the best quality... I was kinda surprised. Then later we found they attached the laminated cladding over those panels and then it looked vastly better. Lol! So after that it's not too far off to presume that the black sheet (whatever it's called.. the black box at the corner...m a "layman" here after all/not an engineer... and assuming we're talking about the same thing, Lol) may not be the final surface.. At least I hope not. Hehe!
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  #2235  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2017, 7:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Jebby View Post
A lot of shit gets talked online.

Is there any evidence whatsoever for that?
there were some news stories on facebook about it but was speculative no evidence

They were protesting in the streets today in london about the response to the tower fire thats been all over the news today
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  #2236  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2017, 9:26 PM
Andros Andros is offline
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Originally Posted by HelloKitty View Post
Yeah I don't think it's gonna be the final surface material either.. In the section where they attached the cladding.. months ago before the cladding was there I was seeing the aluminum frame surrounding each glass panel and it didn't look quite nice like it didn't look like the best quality... I was kinda surprised. Then later we found they attached the laminated cladding over those panels and then it looked vastly better. Lol! So after that it's not too far off to presume that the black sheet (whatever it's called.. the black box at the corner...m a "layman" here after all/not an engineer... and assuming we're talking about the same thing, Lol) may not be the final surface.. At least I hope not. Hehe!
I snapped this as I was walking by the corner of Lougheed and Willingdon

Could this be the final surface..... or not?


Last edited by Andros; Jun 17, 2017 at 1:04 AM. Reason: Image URL broken - Fixed
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  #2237  
Old Posted Jun 16, 2017, 11:55 PM
officedweller officedweller is offline
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Can't see the pic.
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  #2238  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2017, 12:39 AM
Andros Andros is offline
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Can't see the pic.
My apologies!

I am new to the forum. This is the first time I try to insert a picture from my Google Drive. It worked for a little while but it broke later.

I fixed it just now. Let's see if it will stay this time.

Sorry for the size of the picture!
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  #2239  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2017, 12:51 AM
Pinion Pinion is offline
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You can't host photos from google drive. Upload to imgur.com and resize it there if necessary.
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  #2240  
Old Posted Jun 17, 2017, 12:53 AM
Andros Andros is offline
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You can't host photos from google drive. Upload to imgur.com and resize it there if necessary.
Thanks for the tip Pinion!

I will get right on it.

Here, you should be able to see the picture now.

Last edited by Andros; Jun 17, 2017 at 1:07 AM.
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