Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[lightrail]

Effective June 26, 2017, the N8, N20 and N35 will be extended by 2 hours to 5am Monday to Saturday. Combined with the day services, this will provide 24 hour service on Victoria, Hastings and Fraser streets Monday to Saturday.

The N9 is extended to 4am Monday to Saturday and has early morning trips added Saturday and Sunday to provide all night service when Millennium Line is not running.

This means that most night buses now have all night service (N22 and N24 do not yet). N19 has all night service outbound to Surrey only.

Service Frequency on most night routes is now every 20 minutes until 3am, then every 30 minutes after that.

Planned but not included in June changes is the N15 will be extended to YVR and operated to 5am, to provide all night service between Vancouver and YVR when skytrain is not running. The N10 service to YVR will be discontinued; the N10 will continue to provide all night service between Vancouver and Richmond and will meet the N15 at the old Airport Exchange on Sea Island to allow transfers.

[Sheba]

Get on board with the Surrey-Newton-Guildford LRT project – June 13 to July 7

Curious about the plans for the Surrey-Newton-Guildford Light Rail Transit (LRT) line? You’re invited to attend an upcoming open house to learn more about Surrey LRT and share your thoughts.

On June 13, we’re kicking off the next round of consultation, in partnership with the City of Surrey. You may remember that back in January 2017 we launched the first phase of consultation and we heard from more than 500 people at in-person events and 4,000 people through our online survey and feedback forms. Now it’s your turn!

[Alpine]

I need some inspiration.

How would you restructure north Burnaby/Metrotown/South Slope bus routes? jbrizzy, dandor31, Large Cat, Sheba, do you have any inspiration?

Xrayal shared his ideas for a New West/Edmonds/Sapperton restructure a few months ago. I'm focused on the northeast Burnaby/Burquitlam sector since that's where I live, but I'm also interested in seeing what I can do in the Heights, Deer Lake, Rumble/Royal Oak, Cariboo/Market Crossing, etc.

One of the things I struggle with is I don't know what to prioritize. Access to Skytrain? Grid-like structure? Specific residential/commercial areas served? (e.g. 136 serves low-income housing in the Greystone area as well as the housing co-ops in Forest Grove, 134 serves Parker/Curtis, Kensington Square loop, Broadway between Duthie and Burnwood, the Lake City industrial area)

I'll give you an example. I thought about diverting the 134 to Kootenay Loop, since it goes down Parker/Curtis anyway, but that would screw over passengers coming from Brentwood Mall.

Here's another example. I considered diverting the 136 to Lake City Way Station, since that's the closest Skytrain station to Halifax (well, east of Sperling, where the increased density is), but then that would overlap with the 134's routing in Lake City. Then I thought that maybe the 134 could take over the 136's portion through Forest Grove (Sperling, Lougheed, Bainbridge, Broadway, Underhill, Forest Grove to Production Way-University) and the portion of the 110 through Beaverbrook/Cameron, and then I just got really confused. The 134, 136, 144 and 110 are a can of worms that I can't entangle.

And that's not even mentioning how I have no idea how to solve the 116/C5/C6/C7 mess, let alone the fact that there's no bus service on Royal Oak. (Maybe the presence of Forest Lawn Cemetery cuts down on potential density? Depending on where you live along Royal Oak, it can be a long walk to the nearest 110/123/129 stop.)

Here's some ideas that I'm more sure about:

• 94 B-Line to replace the 123
• Split the 106 (which is actually in Translink's 10 year plan), perhaps make the Kingsway portion the 93 B-Line
• Split the 129 (I'm not sure whether the split point should be Gilmore Station or Holdom Station. A Patterson/Kootenay Loop route diverting onto Parker at Gilmore/Parker might work, but that would screw over transfer pax from the 95 B-Line.)

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Alpine

I need some inspiration.

How would you restructure north Burnaby/Metrotown/South Slope bus routes? jbrizzy, dandor31, Large Cat, Sheba, do you have any inspiration?

Xrayal shared his ideas for a New West/Edmonds/Sapperton restructure a few months ago. I'm focused on the northeast Burnaby/Burquitlam sector since that's where I live, but I'm also interested in seeing what I can do in the Heights, Deer Lake, Rumble/Royal Oak, Cariboo/Market Crossing, etc.

One of the things I struggle with is I don't know what to prioritize. Access to Skytrain? Grid-like structure? Specific residential/commercial areas served? (e.g. 136 serves low-income housing in the Greystone area as well as the housing co-ops in Forest Grove, 134 serves Parker/Curtis, Kensington Square loop, Broadway between Duthie and Burnwood, the Lake City industrial area)

I'll give you an example. I thought about diverting the 134 to Kootenay Loop, since it goes down Parker/Curtis anyway, but that would screw over passengers coming from Brentwood Mall.

Here's another example. I considered diverting the 136 to Lake City Way Station, since that's the closest Skytrain station to Halifax (well, east of Sperling, where the increased density is), but then that would overlap with the 134's routing in Lake City. Then I thought that maybe the 134 could take over the 136's portion through Forest Grove (Sperling, Lougheed, Bainbridge, Broadway, Underhill, Forest Grove to Production Way-University) and the portion of the 110 through Beaverbrook/Cameron, and then I just got really confused. The 134, 136, 144 and 110 are a can of worms that I can't entangle.

And that's not even mentioning how I have no idea how to solve the 116/C5/C6/C7 mess, let alone the fact that there's no bus service on Royal Oak. (Maybe the presence of Forest Lawn Cemetery cuts down on potential density? Depending on where you live along Royal Oak, it can be a long walk to the nearest 110/123/129 stop.)

Here's some ideas that I'm more sure about:

• 94 B-Line to replace the 123
• Split the 106 (which is actually in Translink's 10 year plan), perhaps make the Kingsway portion the 93 B-Line
• Split the 129 (I'm not sure whether the split point should be Gilmore Station or Holdom Station. A Patterson/Kootenay Loop route diverting onto Parker at Gilmore/Parker might work, but that would screw over transfer pax from the 95 B-Line.)

If I didn't know better I'd think you were flirting with me.

B Lines. It was easy to put one on Hastings as there were already bus routes there for local coverage - for the 106 between Metrotown and Edmonds, it is the local coverage while the Skytrain is the express route. They're more likely to make the busier 130 between Metrotown and Brentwood or Kootenay Loop into a B Line before they look at making the 123 into one.

To make sense of the bus routes I converted their maps into jpgs and traced out the routes in different colours. Then I'd treat it like a puzzle and try to take it apart and put it back together again in a way that I think makes more sense. Using google maps is really good for this as you can trace out potential routes and then navigate them in street view (I can spend stupid amounts of time wandering around in google maps).

A few of the changes I made. Metrotown Station is way too busy, esp considering that Patterson and Royal Oak on either side of it are dead zones. So I moved the 144 to start at Royal Oak, as well as moved the C7 over to Patterson (where I joined it to a slightly changed 129 up to Gilmore Station).

The C6, C7 and 116 south of Metrotown are a pet peeve of mine - sooo much route overlap and most of the area is going to stay as SFH. I already mentioned the C7. I moved the 116 mostly over to Boundary and Joffre, and expanded the C6 to provide local coverage.

I could go on and on, but it's probably a good idea for you to try drawing out the routes to see what makes sense to you. One last one you might find interesting - I took the section of the 134 between Spreling-Burnaby Lake and Lake City Way stations and joined it (minus the loop) to the section of the 110 between Production Way and Lougheed stations, to make a new route.

[Metro-One]

Alright, filled out the survey.

Made sure to voice my concern over phase two being LRT (to Langley) and how it makes no sense, especially with the Expo Line currently terminating looking directly at Langley.

Seriously, they want to build it as a 16km long at grade LRT with only 8 stops... My god that will be slow going along Fraser.

Call me crazy but such station spacing sounds like the job for skytrain IMO...

[Hooknose]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Alright, filled out the survey.

Made sure to voice my concern over phase two being LRT (to Langley) and how it makes no sense, especially with the Expo Line currently terminating looking directly at Langley.

Seriously, they want to build it as a 16km long at grade LRT with only 8 stops... My god that will be slow going along Fraser.

Call me crazy but such station spacing sounds like the job for skytrain IMO...

My guess ... they will announce a half way measure ... continue Skytrain to about 164th, halfway to Langley and start some shuttle buses from there to Langley city centre. then in about ten years, when they have little else to do, they might decide to Skytrain the rest of the way.

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Alright, filled out the survey.

Made sure to voice my concern over phase two being LRT (to Langley) and how it makes no sense, especially with the Expo Line currently terminating looking directly at Langley.

Seriously, they want to build it as a 16km long at grade LRT with only 8 stops... My god that will be slow going along Fraser.

Call me crazy but such station spacing sounds like the job for skytrain IMO...

I didn't get the sense from the survey that that's what they're definitively planning. In the video they called it the "Future Surrey-Langley line" and didn't say "LRT line" or "SkyTrain line". You're absolutely right that it should be SkyTrain though.

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

I didn't get the sense from the survey that that's what they're definitively planning. In the video they called it the "Future Surrey-Langley line" and didn't say "LRT line" or "SkyTrain line". You're absolutely right that it should be SkyTrain though.

LRT along 104th will be a huge joke and waste of 2 Bil. Running it along Fraser Hwy to Langley would be an even bigger joke. Who are the incompetents making these choices? Watch the accidents and deaths pile up like in Calgary. Trains and cars don't mix well.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by Trainguy

LRT along 104th will be a huge joke and waste of 2 Bil. Running it along Fraser Hwy to Langley would be an even bigger joke. Who are the incompetents making these choices? Watch the accidents and deaths pile up like in Calgary. Trains and cars don't mix well.

In the video it is more ambiguous but in the info graphic on the website it directly describes it as surface LRT with a single short elevated portion per the Langley bypass.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

In the video it is more ambiguous but in the info graphic on the website it directly describes it as surface LRT with a single short elevated portion per the Langley bypass.

Yeah the video just says "the future Surrey - Langley Line" without specifically saying LRT (or Skytrain). It also says the L Line will be "curb-separated from traffic" (along with showing it in a grassy island in the middle of the street).

You can see the video here.

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Yeah the video just says "the future Surrey - Langley Line" without specifically saying LRT (or Skytrain). It also says the L Line will be "curb-separated from traffic" (along with showing it in a grassy island in the middle of the street).

You can see the video here.

Yes, I have watched the video.

First of all "curb-separated from traffic" is of little comfort because it still has to cross every dissecting intersection and crosswalk at grade. They are calling this an LRT but it is honestly just a team (I feel that many people have the C-Train in mind, but that is far superior compared to what Surrey is proposing). In the video itself they use the Toronto STREETCAR as their example... This is a boondoggle, completely set in motion by politics and not solid transportation planning. I will be super happy if I am wrong, but I am not holding my breath.

Now to the main point, yes the video is ambiguous (and we shouldn't find false comfort in that ambiguity, we should all send messages demanding the line to Langley to be Skytrain) but the Indo graphic linked on the site clearly describes it as at grade LRT running down Fraser. That is super troubling.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Yes, I have watched the video.

First of all "curb-separated from traffic" is of little comfort because it still has to cross every dissecting intersection and crosswalk at grade. They are calling this an LRT but it is honestly just a team (I feel that many people have the C-Train in mind, but that is far superior compared to what Surrey is proposing). In the video itself they use the Toronto STREETCAR as their example... This is a boondoggle, completely set in motion by politics and not solid transportation planning. I will be super happy if I am wrong, but I am not holding my breath.

Now to the main point, yes the video is ambiguous (and we shouldn't find false comfort in that ambiguity, we should all send messages demanding the line to Langley to be Skytrain) but the Indo graphic linked on the site clearly describes it as at grade LRT running down Fraser. That is super troubling.

I know - I've just tried to limit repeating those comments on here. I've certainly said them to Surrey and TransLink, including in the latest survey.

[Meraki]

Starting June 21, limited-edition Canada 150 Compass Cards will be available at the following places while supplies last:

[GeeCee]

Huh, that date got bumped up a bit, didn't it? I thought that it was July 1st.

[Trainguy]

Here is an interesting article on Ottawa LRT. The Feds seem to be doling out the cash for Ontario and Quebec. BC seems to always be skating in glue on transit issues.

16 June 2017
Feds Announce $1.09 Billion
for Ottawa Light Rail

Ottawa Ontario - Prime Minister Justin Trudeau has earmarked up to $1.09 billion in federal funding for the second stage of Ottawa's light rail transit project, which will connect the east, west, and south areas of Canada's capital.

The Province of Ontario has also made a similar commitment to the project, and the City of Ottawa is responsible for the balance of the funding.

Stage 2 of the Ottawa light rail project will see an additional 38.8 kilometres of rail and 23 new stations added to Stage 1 of the rail system currently under construction.

This new stage of construction will begin in 2018.

With Ottawa's population expected to grow to 1.14 million people over the next 15 years, the feds view this light rail expansion as essential.

"The expansion of Ottawa's light rail transit system will make it easier for residents and visitors alike to get around and experience everything our capital city has to offer. This expansion will help Canadians get to work and back home to their families on time, make our air cleaner, and create good, well-paying middle class jobs," said Trudeau.

The federal government, which provided $762 million for Stage 1 of the project, says that when construction is completed in 2023, 70 percent of Ottawa residents will live within five kilometres of light rail transit.

In addition to what was announced 16 Jun 2017, over $66 million in approved federal funding through the Public Transit Infrastructure Fund has been provided for four projects related to Stage 2:

$45 million for early works and engineering.

$20 million for new light rail vehicles.

$1.25 million for design of a rail-to-rail grade separation.

$100,000 for consultation with Indigenous communities.

[GeeCee]

It's not like BC has ever struggled with getting federal funding for transit projects. It just takes ages for the province and Metro Vancouver to hash out the regional portion ever since the BC Liberals downloaded responsibility for so many things (and not the ability to change the funding levers other than property tax) years ago.

[SpongeG]

so do these limited edition cards come out of the regular machines or do they have a special kiosk set up to get one?

----

also wtf is going on with skytrain sunday night? a usual one hour trip from the airport took me 2 hours. The trains are packed, they are running something like every 20 minutes?

all trains leaving waterfront are going to king george only. If you need to get to lougheed, braid or sapperton you have to transfer at broadway and they are running special trains that are running from vcc clark to sapperton.

They are making an announcement on the train but apparently not on the platforms and there is no signage of what to do otherwise people aren't paying attention. People were sitting at granville and burrard waiting i assume for a production way bound train as they didn't get on the train which is their only option to get anywhere. Is it going to be all summer? maybe i can find another way home from the airport cause its far too long and inconvenient. Even canada line was running longer wait times than usual.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

so do these limited edition cards come out of the regular machines or do they have a special kiosk set up to get one?

----

also wtf is going on with skytrain sunday night? a usual one hour trip from the airport took me 2 hours. The trains are packed, they are running something like every 20 minutes?

http://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/...ice-disrupted-by-new-west-equipment-fire

Travellers using the Expo Line Sunday morning faced delays because of an “equipment fire” at New Westminster Station.

Shortly after 7 a.m., the station was closed for several hours. The next station to the west, 22nd Street, was also closed because of the fire.

Shuttle buses operated between Edmonds and Columbia station.

The fire was put out within a couple hours but regular service was not restored until about 11:15 a.m.

A TransLink spokesperson said there was no risk to customers and no impact on the Millennium and Canada Lines.

[SpongeG]

oh ok, was not a fun day, my flight was late cause people are dumbasses trying to stuff oversized carry on in bins that are too small and i dressed for summer only to return to winterlike weather lol they had the heat on the trains! in june! its freaking june not winter. Definately not short weather out there tonight.

[GeeCee]

Originally Posted by SpongeG

so do these limited edition cards come out of the regular machines or do they have a special kiosk set up to get one?

The regular machines, though only some of them at the stations that do have them. The ones with the cards will have a Canada 150 decal on them per http://www.translink.ca/en/Fares-and-Passes/Where-to-buy-FareDealer.aspx