Wpg: Chief Peguis Trail Extension

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Reignman

I agree to cut Pipeline access to 101 but if the lights must stay, at least adjust the timing to leave 101 green for 1.5 to 2 minutes. The timing now which stops dozens of high speed cars and semi trucks to let 3 vehicles through on Pipeline is ridiculous and obviously unsafe.

I never understood that approach by Man. Inf. where the Perimeter gets red lights seemingly every time one single car approaches from a side road, and as you say there are dozens of cars at a time constantly stopping on the Perimeter as a result. Red lights should be the exception on the Perimeter, not the rule.

[bomberjet]

If the solution to all problems is "just do it right", it'd be easy. Most people drive through all these intersections with no problems. But sometimes, shit happens for various reasons. Lots of times its people being stupid..

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

All locations are important. How much is one's life worth? If it was your family member who was injured or killed, the tone would change.

Basically every intersection on the Perimeter, especially the lighted ones, are big issues. We've gone in circles many times about this. Which one goes first? Everybody would have a different list.

We really need to include Gunn Rd on the list of lighted intersections on the Perimeter. Yes, it never should have had cross median access. That goat has died long ago though and we are stuck with it now. Yes, we don't need more lights on the Perimeter. That said Gunn Rd needs the lights to bring it up to the relatively low safety standard the Perimeter already maintains. How 330 got lights added before Gunn Rd I can't explain.

For perspective imagine your choice of an intersection with lights on the Perimeter was a posted 100 km/h zone with the posted speed being often exceeded. That is effectively Gunn Rd today.

In terms of the traffic lights on the Perimeter, they should all be converted exclusively to on-demand with a 2-3 minute countdown once the switch is tripped. No more red lights to the Perimeter when there is no cross traffic.

[WestEndWander]

What is with the endless mentions of "Initial at-grade signalized intersection, ultimate diamond interchange" in the latest CPT extension document? Are they kidding?

Can we not for once just damn well do something right and to completion the first time in Winnipeg? Why not complete everything at the same time as they do in other cities instead of leaving areas for "the future"? We all know that these will stay as signalized intersections anyways, regardless of what they might say.

Just like when they were reconstructing the Disraelli freeway and decided to not turn both bridges into 3 lanes. We now have traffic backed up to both ends of the bridge in the mornings and evenings. Whoever came up with the ridiculous decision to go from 3 lanes to 2 lanes on the bridge and then back to 3 lanes should be commended. Absolute idiocy.

Our "inner ring road is an absolute joke with its constant and continued inclusion/addition of signals along it. Nothing illustrates this better than the stretch between Taylor and McGillvary on Route 90 where the attitude of our brilliant traffic engineers and planners seems to be "when in doubt put up a set of lights". You're lucky if you now get above 50km/h on a stretch that was meant to be 80.

And why is there endless money for the continued expansion of our car based infrastructure which we can barely maintain as it is, yet we will take 3x's as long as Calgary and Edmonton to complete a DT cycle network that will be 3x's smaller than both. Bowman is just a greasy little weasel who has zero leadership or capability to follow through on his commitments. Just look at the inactivity on the opening of P&M.

Sorry, that's all. End of shitty traffic engineering/planners/politicians rant. Our slogan should be - "Winnipeg, why plan for the future? We can't even get our shit together now!"

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by WestEndWander

What is with the endless mentions of "Initial at-grade signalized intersection, ultimate diamond interchange" in the latest CPT extension document? Are they kidding?

Can we not for once just damn well do something right and to completion the first time in Winnipeg? Why not complete everything at the same time as they do in other cities instead of leaving areas for "the future"? We all know that these will stay as signalized intersections anyways, regardless of what they might say.

Just like when they were reconstructing the Disraelli freeway and decided to not turn both bridges into 3 lanes. We now have traffic backed up to both ends of the bridge in the mornings and evenings. Whoever came up with the ridiculous decision to go from 3 lanes to 2 lanes on the bridge and then back to 3 lanes should be commended. Absolute idiocy.

Our "inner ring road is an absolute joke with its constant and continued inclusion/addition of signals along it. Nothing illustrates this better than the stretch between Taylor and McGillvary on Route 90 where the attitude of our brilliant traffic engineers and planners seems to be "when in doubt put up a set of lights". You're lucky if you now get above 50km/h on a stretch that was meant to be 80.

And why is there endless money for the continued expansion of our car based infrastructure which we can barely maintain as it is, yet we will take 3x's as long as Calgary and Edmonton to complete a DT cycle network that will be 3x's smaller than both. Bowman is just a greasy little weasel who has zero leadership or capability to follow through on his commitments. Just look at the inactivity on the opening of P&M.

Sorry, that's all. End of shitty traffic engineering/planners/politicians rant. Our slogan should be - "Winnipeg, why plan for the future? We can't even get our shit together now!"

Did you see the ultimate plans? The engineers and planners know what they're doing. They'd probably cut off Ferrier from CPT just like we all say. It's all about political will to get the monies. That is it. We need the money and that's up to the government. Not the planners.

But yes, we all agree. We want interchanges! haha Now march to City Hall!

[bomberjet]

Okay, here's my fancy freeway map I told you all about in the Roads thread.

Bishop Grandin is highly conceptual east of Lag up to CPT. Yes its kind of silly ot have both Lag and the other eastern freeway so close to each other. But that's sort of the plan still. At least the Ed Schreyer Parkway and the Bishop Extension to City limits (Plessis) at Sage Creek.

There is also possibility instead of McPhillips being the freeway, it can be Ferrier connecting to McPhillips at the bend. Originally McGregor connected to McPhillips and had a parclo at CPT. That land is now part of whatever precinct is going in north of CPT.

[Reignman]

Originally Posted by CoryB

In terms of the traffic lights on the Perimeter, they should all be converted exclusively to on-demand with a 2-3 minute countdown once the switch is tripped. No more red lights to the Perimeter when there is no cross traffic.

They already are on demand signals. Most lights on perimeter are set at 45 second max green as long as perimeter traffic flow is maintained within the detection zone (190 meters on south perimeter and 235 meters on north). If there is no vehicles detected within the detection zone, and a vehicle pulls up at an conflicting route, this will trip the perimeter advance warning lights to start flashing and the green is terminated. Minimum green light for perimeter is set at 13 seconds. Which is ridiculous considering a huge pack of vehicles that just left the last lighted intersection could be just out of the detection zone - and one car pulling up on the intersecting route can cause them to have to stop yet again.

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by Reignman

They already are on demand signals. Most lights on perimeter are set at 45 second max green as long as perimeter traffic flow is maintained within the detection zone (190 meters on south perimeter and 235 meters on north). If there is no vehicles detected within the detection zone, and a vehicle pulls up at an conflicting route, this will trip the perimeter advance warning lights to start flashing and the green is terminated. Minimum green light for perimeter is set at 13 seconds. Which is ridiculous considering a huge pack of vehicles that just left the last lighted intersection could be just out of the detection zone - and one car pulling up on the intersecting route can cause them to have to stop yet again.

From what I remember witnessing though, that timer resets once it reaches maximum, and with no cars detected by that point. It continuously goes green throughout.

Some intersections around the city does that anyway, but I also realize not every controlled intersection has them either.

[Reignman]

Originally Posted by The Jabroni

From what I remember witnessing though, that timer resets once it reaches maximum, and with no cars detected by that point. It continuously goes green throughout.

Some intersections around the city does that anyway, but I also realize not every controlled intersection has them either.

Yes, you're right...the cycles do reset and stay continuous green for perimeter traffic only if there are no conflicting movements.

My argument to MIT was that there should be no minimum (13 seconds) if no perimeter traffic is detected and the max cycle time should be increased. Or the detection zone length should be significantly increased. Right now the south perimeter zone is about 1/5 of a km. If my calculations are correct, at 100km/hr that's only about 12 seconds away.

Edit: my calculations were wrong lol. I beleive it's actually 7.2 seconds.

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by DirtWednesday

It does have warning lights.
I'd rather see the intersection closed to cross traffic. Merge in west bound from the North, merge in east bound from the South. Emergency only crossing. Those lights, despite not a lot of north-south traffic disrupt the flow. I think that's why it's dangerous, you don't expect there to be a need to stop there and you shouldn't have to.

Everyone's list would be different sure, but if I had the option - Close Pipeline in the way that I said, and give the exchange to the busier (yet safer) Highway 6 lights.

Closing it is the best option.

Originally Posted by CoryB

We really need to include Gunn Rd on the list of lighted intersections on the Perimeter. Yes, it never should have had cross median access. That goat has died long ago though and we are stuck with it now. Yes, we don't need more lights on the Perimeter. That said Gunn Rd needs the lights to bring it up to the relatively low safety standard the Perimeter already maintains. How 330 got lights added before Gunn Rd I can't explain.

For perspective imagine your choice of an intersection with lights on the Perimeter was a posted 100 km/h zone with the posted speed being often exceeded. That is effectively Gunn Rd today.

In terms of the traffic lights on the Perimeter, they should all be converted exclusively to on-demand with a 2-3 minute countdown once the switch is tripped. No more red lights to the Perimeter when there is no cross traffic.

What's wrong with Gunn? I rarely see traffic there, and it would be annoying as hell to always stop. Do people not know how to drive?

The more I think of it though, it would be more dangerous in winter, to have a light at the foot of a bridge in ice conditions. It's easy to be caught off guard by ice and slide into the back of the driver ahead of you.

Originally Posted by WestEndWander

What is with the endless mentions of "Initial at-grade signalized intersection, ultimate diamond interchange" in the latest CPT extension document? Are they kidding?

Can we not for once just damn well do something right and to completion the first time in Winnipeg? Why not complete everything at the same time as they do in other cities instead of leaving areas for "the future"? We all know that these will stay as signalized intersections anyways, regardless of what they might say.

Just like when they were reconstructing the Disraelli freeway and decided to not turn both bridges into 3 lanes. We now have traffic backed up to both ends of the bridge in the mornings and evenings. Whoever came up with the ridiculous decision to go from 3 lanes to 2 lanes on the bridge and then back to 3 lanes should be commended. Absolute idiocy.

Our "inner ring road is an absolute joke with its constant and continued inclusion/addition of signals along it. Nothing illustrates this better than the stretch between Taylor and McGillvary on Route 90 where the attitude of our brilliant traffic engineers and planners seems to be "when in doubt put up a set of lights". You're lucky if you now get above 50km/h on a stretch that was meant to be 80.

And why is there endless money for the continued expansion of our car based infrastructure which we can barely maintain as it is, yet we will take 3x's as long as Calgary and Edmonton to complete a DT cycle network that will be 3x's smaller than both. Bowman is just a greasy little weasel who has zero leadership or capability to follow through on his commitments. Just look at the inactivity on the opening of P&M.

Sorry, that's all. End of shitty traffic engineering/planners/politicians rant. Our slogan should be - "Winnipeg, why plan for the future? We can't even get our shit together now!"

I agree with everything except for the cycle network. I thought everyone was already in agreement that Edmonton went complete overkill on that and isn't an appropriate comparison.

[Jets4Life]

So what is going on with CPT? Have they even begun to build it further west, or at least to McPhillips? Have they extended it past Lagimodiere? Or will it take until 2025 to begin?

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

So what is going on with CPT? Have they even begun to build it further west, or at least to McPhillips? Have they extended it past Lagimodiere? Or will it take until 2025 to begin?

From what I can tell from the meeting earlier this week, it looks like they're going all the way from Main to Brookside/Route 90. The expectation was to build up to at least McPhillips, but they want to include both interchanges at McPhillips, with it being a diamond, and upgrade Main St. to a full urban interchange, and then continue west towards Brookside Blvd.

According to this timeline, we were at the May/June 2017 section. By January 2018, they're going to report to council for the tendering process.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by Wolf13

What's wrong with Gunn? I rarely see traffic there, and it would be annoying as hell to always stop. Do people not know how to drive?

I travel through there at 4:15 pm and have to admit that it is a very dangerous intersection. There are countless numbers of 18 wheelers and other large tandem axle trucks and vehicles with long trailers turning off and on to the perimeter mixed in with the rush hour commuter traffic traveling at very high speeds. I have witnessed quite a few near misses at that intersection.

[bomberjet]

I would think the City will be going for Federal funding as part of Trudeaus next dole out. Next year sometime I believe. The Province and City finances are another matter altogether. Based on Costa Rica Brian's current state of affairs, it could be some time before we see anything happen.

[WildCake]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Awesome map! Not sure if the plessis portion of the beltway will ever become grade separated, especially with Lag so close to it, but I can imagine the rest (assuming no global catastrophe) will EVENTUALLY get upgraded

[roccerfeller]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Okay, here's my fancy freeway map I told you all about in the Roads thread.

Bishop Grandin is highly conceptual east of Lag up to CPT. Yes its kind of silly ot have both Lag and the other eastern freeway so close to each other. But that's sort of the plan still. At least the Ed Schreyer Parkway and the Bishop Extension to City limits (Plessis) at Sage Creek.

There is also possibility instead of McPhillips being the freeway, it can be Ferrier connecting to McPhillips at the bend. Originally McGregor connected to McPhillips and had a parclo at CPT. That land is now part of whatever precinct is going in north of CPT.

This is a really cool map

It might be too time consuming on your end, but it would be cool to visualize what is already "free flow" portions on this map (maybe if you went over in green) just to see what currently exists and what we can expect

[esquire]

^ I get irked looking at the Kenaston portion of that map... the bifurcated one-way stroads through Waverley West are such an odd approach. It's basically an expressway that will only get busier when it eventually links up with the St. Norbert Bypass, yet it still has the character of an arterial street with signalized intersections providing access to shops and housing. It's like the worst of both worlds.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by roccerfeller

This is a really cool map

It might be too time consuming on your end, but it would be cool to visualize what is already "free flow" portions on this map (maybe if you went over in green) just to see what currently exists and what we can expect

^^^ It shouldn't be too hard. You would only need a tiny bit of green to touch it up.

[bomberjet]

Originally Posted by Biff

^^^ It shouldn't be too hard. You would only need a tiny bit of green to touch it up.

HAHAHA. See Biff, I appreciate your humour.

A green bit on the north Perimeter. A couple other green bits here and there.

[Reignman]

Originally Posted by esquire

^ I get irked looking at the Kenaston portion of that map... the bifurcated one-way stroads through Waverley West are such an odd approach. It's basically an expressway that will only get busier when it eventually links up with the St. Norbert Bypass, yet it still has the character of an arterial street with signalized intersections providing access to shops and housing. It's like the worst of both worlds.

Lol...so so true. Smart play would have been to slap a diamond at Waverley, then another at Bison and have both North and South Town roads feed onto Bison to access Kenaston. But as always, we get the shit end of the stick ...god forbid you have too long of a free flow section here in Winnipeg.