DENVER | Main Development Thread #7

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by ddvmke

I'm with you, assuming you're actually taking home the $900k and you can get average market rate of returns elsewhere, I'd take anything over $11.5m. Sell sell sell, build build build!

The IRR is actually even better on this lot. It's listed at $17.5M for a little over .57 acres ($700/sf) and the actual parking slot count is ~75. So halve the revenue to $450K and split the sales price to $13.75M for the lot.

[mishko27]

Originally Posted by Mulligan

1) AGREED!
From the Post article: “It’s a clear mandate. There is no doubt about that,” Jerry Presley, a former City Councilman and one of the leaders of the opposition campaign, said Tuesday night. “I think we won this election for several reasons, and one of which is we have passion. People who were against this, they weren’t doing this for any financial reasons. It’s because we love our city and we don’t want it to be urbanized.”
DUDE YOU'RE IN GREENWOOD VILLAGE. IT'S ALREADY URBANIZED!

2)

1.) I hope the developer just takes the money and pours it into Belleview station - I know they have a master developer there, not sure if the rest of the lots apart from Belleview One / The Den / MileHouse are figured out yet. Urbanize the shit out of it, it's right next to Greenwood Village.

Also, I love how the NO campaign was trying to save the village. I was born and raised in Eastern Europe, I come from an actual village. The i25 corridor with the old and outdate business parks (I actually work down here) has nothing to do with a "village". Idiotic.

[RyanD]

I was in Philly last week, great place btw, and I found a tiny little City Target that will be about the same size as we are getting. Two levels, and packed full of Target stuff. It was awesome and made me very excited for the one we are getting in Denver!

[seventwenty]

Interesting. Ryan, how did you find the selection at the Philly City Target? Did you find it adequate for day to day living? How did it compare to a Walgreens? What about groceries? Any idea about bigger ticket items such as electronics? Some of these questions can be inferred from your photos, but I'm curious about your impressions. Also, did you buy bunt a Flyers shirt so he can root for a better hockey team?

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by seventwenty

Interesting. Ryan, how did you find the selection at the Philly City Target? Did you find it adequate for day to day living? How did it compare to a Walgreens? What about groceries? Any idea about bigger ticket items such as electronics? Some of these questions can be inferred from your photos, but I'm curious about your impressions. Also, did you buy bunt a Flyers shirt so he can root for a better hockey team?

The selection was pretty good. Not fantastic but much better than Walgreens, or any smaller convenience store. They had minimal clothing but essentials like underwear, socks, etc. What you don't see, because I failed to take more pictures, is a small electronics wall with a decent selection of cables, a few TVs, and phone accessories. The big thing here is housewares. Fans, storage boxes, etc, even some flat pack furniture. That is something not even a large scale grocer will offer. Speaking of groceries, again it's very small, but it is great if you need something quick on the go, or very basic groceries. I love sandwiches, and could get all of the items I needed there, I honestly don't remember if they had fresh produce. I want to say there was little section for that as well. IIRC they had about 8 aisles of non refrigerated groceries and 2.5 aisles of refrigerated stuff.

Also, shhhh don't tell bunt. It was supposed to be an anonymous gift!

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by RyanD

Also, shhhh don't tell bunt. It was supposed to be an anonymous gift!

I have to say I'm impressed with the Predators. Planning any trips to Nashville soon?

At first I was a little disappointed that the Target wouldn't be bigger. I believe the DUS King Soopers is about 42,000 SF and the coming Whole Foods Market is to be about 56,000 SF while the 16th Street Mall Target I think is only 25,000 SF.

But seeing the photos does warm the cockles of me heart. I wonder if they'll have a CVS pharmacy; I'd guess that they will? In any case Target will still be a great addition to downtown.

[Scottk]

Originally Posted by twister244

I totally get moving the security lines and opening up the Great Hall. However, how in the world is that going to cost $1 billion? It doesn't look much different than what we have now. Maybe this is a very preliminary design that will modify significantly, but I am not impressed right now.

It will cost a billion dollars because they are expanding the underground illuminaty prison camp

[mhays]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

The IRR is actually even better on this lot. It's listed at $17.5M for a little over .57 acres ($700/sf) and the actual parking slot count is ~75. So halve the revenue to $450K and split the sales price to $13.75M for the lot.

The "hold" option isn't just about parking profits vs. sale value. The value might rise hugely as land gets scarce, maybe in the next boom if not this one. That said, $700 isn't bad, lots of other assets can grow value just as quickly, and the "dividend" of parking profits (using a stock analogy) might not be compelling.

[spr8364]

Originally Posted by twister244

I totally get moving the security lines and opening up the Great Hall. However, how in the world is that going to cost $1 billion? It doesn't look much different than what we have now. Maybe this is a very preliminary design that will modify significantly, but I am not impressed right now.

I saw a fair amount of structural changes in those renderings. They have extended the cantilevering walkways around the concourse. But, I agree, $1B seems to be a lot of money.

[DenverInfill]

Keep in mind the construction cost isn't $1B but between $650M and $775M, with the balance as payments to the contractor for operations and maintenance over 34 years.

[Ed M]

Where are the customers in that Philadelphia Target?

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Ed M

Where are the customers in that Philadelphia Target?

Waiting for your first comment I'd guess

[RyanD]

Originally Posted by Ed M

Where are the customers in that Philadelphia Target?

We were there right when it opened, so no customers yet. But we had to get something before we left in the afternoon and it was pretty packed.

Also, here's the lower facade of 16 Chestnut in addition to the steel going up!

16 Chestnut

[twister244]

Originally Posted by DenverInfill

Keep in mind the construction cost isn't $1B but between $650M and $775M, with the balance as payments to the contractor for operations and maintenance over 34 years.

Ok, yes, I stand corrected on the dollar amount. However, I am just not a fan of the design elements I see in the video/photos. It doesn't look like much changes, other than the hall freeing up space with the removal of the security gates. Hopefully design refinements allow for some more creative elements.

Side note, definitely a fan of the 16 Chestnut facade ^^^^ That will be a great addition to the neighborhood.

[dwalk]

http://www.bizjournals.com/denver/news/2...-tabor-center-renovations-coming.html#g1

The elusive Tabor 2 has been sighted!

[PhilipDDG]

Re: Tabor 2. I spotted that bird, too! Sneaky critter. The article indicates, though, that there's no specific timeframe for it's permanent nesting.

[Cirrus]

The mini Target I sometimes go to has produce. See the right side of this photo, behind the guy in the blue shirt.

[BG918]

Originally Posted by PhilipDDG

Re: Tabor 2. I spotted that bird, too! Sneaky critter. The article indicates, though, that there's no specific timeframe for it's permanent nesting.

Seems wasteful to potentially have to redo part of that plaza twice if/when they build Tabor 2. Still listed as a "future development" on Callahan's website: http://callahancp.com/portfolio/city/property/?id=4

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by seventwenty

Interesting. Ryan, how did you find the selection at the Philly City Target? Did you find it adequate for day to day living? How did it compare to a Walgreens? What about groceries? Any idea about bigger ticket items such as electronics? Some of these questions can be inferred from your photos, but I'm curious about your impressions. Also, did you buy bunt a Flyers shirt so he can root for a better hockey team?

There are actually two City Targets currently open in Center City, and two more are on their way (one's in the former Whole Foods at 20th & Callowhill, and the other is part of the Lincoln Square project at Broad & Washington). The other one that's currently open -- the one which I use more frequently -- is at 11th & Chestnut, about ten blocks down the street from this one.

The one Ryan was in has more of a housewares focus, while the other one has a stronger food focus, to the point where it's more like a mini grocery store than anything else. I get the sense that these mini City Targets can easily synergize selections across several small closely-located stores.

[seventwenty]

Huh. I wonder if Denver will get a second City Target near Cap Hill or LoHi then.