Hwy 99 Fraser River Tunnel (George Massey Replacement) | Proposed

[flipper316]

Originally Posted by connect2source

Could not agree more! Brilliant post and thanks!!

Having just returned from Spain, driving a manual transmission VW Polo all over Andalusia and the Canaries, I got a first hand look at Spain's incredible road infrastructure, much of which is tolled. This is a country heavily committed to all forms of transportation, highways compliment high-speed rail and local transport networks in most cities are highly evolved and very efficient.

Their Autopistas ( Freeways ) are magnificent, in mountainous areas they are straightaways thanks to extensive tunnelling wherever there's a barrier, road signs are large and visible, lane markings are beautifully maintained, painted and highly visible. I could go on and on... but they obviously believe that decent highways are essential to more than single occupancy vehicles, hence their attitudes are far more evolved. These road networks transport people, goods, transit and often bikes, they are essential to local economies and aren't frowned upon.

Driving through the Massey Tunnel, upon returning last week, gave me new perspective on this crumbling third-world embarrassment. Even in the farthest reaches of the Canary Islands, I never once witnessed anything this deplorable or downright dangerous.

I don't know where to begin on this piece-of-crap which is obviously close to the end of it's life. For starters the idea of oncoming traffic during the counterflow hours, in a tube with no shoulders or pull-outs of any kind, is a death-trap plain and simple, I've actually never seen anything like it in my travels. It should be made illegal tomorrow as it's a disaster waiting to happen.

The tunnel itself, even during non-counterflow periods is narrow, poorly lit, bumpy and not even close to today's safety standards.

It's also seismically un-sound, likely close to that of the disaster-prone Pattullo bridge. These pre-case concrete sections will likely break-apart in a moderate earthquake killing many and rendering an essential part of road infrastructure inoperable for years. Who then will take responsibility for cancelling this project?

The notion that the replacement is not essential is reckless, for all those opposed to the 10 lane mega-project, we need replacement of some sort immediately be it a paired-down version of the proposal.

Good post. U can say that a lot of 1st world countries in Europe have better roads than BC. Even friggin Poland.

[moosejaw]

Originally Posted by flipper316

Good post. U can say that a lot of 1st world countries in Europe have better roads than BC. Even friggin Poland.

Even in Chile - again roads that are tolled.

[connect2source]

Just drove Hwy 99 through Richmond - Tunnel - and to Hwy 91. Noticed the widening work - tree removal along the highway both north and south of the tunnel seems to have ground to a halt as well. Any predictions as to what will happen to this work if the project is cancelled? Looks to become a huge mess and eye-sore if not somewhat completed, paved / finished in some way.

[osirisboy]

Originally Posted by connect2source

Just drove Hwy 99 through Richmond - Tunnel - and to Hwy 91. Noticed the widening work - tree removal along the highway both north and south of the tunnel seems to have ground to a halt as well. Any predictions as to what will happen to this work if the project is cancelled? Looks to become a huge mess and eye-sore if not somewhat completed, paved / finished in some way.

The work they are doing now is being done between 10pm and 5am. I drive this stretch all the time during the day and I have never seen actual work going on ever since it began.

[Klazu]

Spain built its highways, high-speed rail and ghost airports with EU billions. Same with all Mediterranean countries, like Greece's highways to nowhere. Not a good comparison when they were able to exploit billions from EU programs...

But I do agree with the underlying sentiment.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Defer to the mayors essentially means it will never happen.

It is also a terrible way to do things in Metro-Van.

If we "deferred to the mayors" for transit the Evergreen Line and the Canada Line would have been at grade LRT, and not skytrain.

Sometimes the point of a good provincial government is to make the hard choices that the region needs that the local governments might not exactly agree with.

I already explained why the twinned tunnel is a non-starter (will still have a high cost, the existing tubes will still need to be replaced in a couple decades, would create even more unneeded splits in the road way, does not address the shipping or seismic concerns, and would likely involved some pretty poorly designed interchanges.

I can understand why people would vote for the NDP / Greens given other priorities, but it is okay to admit that involving this specific project they are dropping the ball.

To be more clear, I do think it would be wrong to cancel this project, and I do think that they likely will. The key word is "likely" as I do think with such a close legislature (in terms of seats) there may be things like this where the NDP and Greens won't be able to totally ignore the Liberals.

I live in Ladner, believe me, I want this bridge And I know that its chances took a nose dive with the new government. But its as you said, there are other considerations and priorities in voting than just this bridge.

[Zassk]

Originally Posted by connect2source

Just drove Hwy 99 through Richmond - Tunnel - and to Hwy 91. Noticed the widening work - tree removal along the highway both north and south of the tunnel seems to have ground to a halt as well. Any predictions as to what will happen to this work if the project is cancelled? Looks to become a huge mess and eye-sore if not somewhat completed, paved / finished in some way.

Drive through after 8pm and you will see tons of work being done. Every single section under construction has nonstop work going every night. It is quite impressive to watch, and depressing to imagine it all coming to nothing.

[flipper316]

Originally Posted by Zassk

Drive through after 8pm and you will see tons of work being done. Every single section under construction has nonstop work going every night. It is quite impressive to watch, and depressing to imagine it all coming to nothing.

Well, at least the contractors are working now and getting paid. So these are the only people at least getting something out of it before this gets canceled.

[jlousa]

Drove past them at 11pm and then back at 3am and they were going gangbusters on both sides of the tunnel. Was really surprised how far south they've gotten already.

[connect2source]

Does anyone know how far the work will be taken? Guess there's little sense in widening a highway which will eventually be reduced to one or two lanes at the tunnel.

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by connect2source

Does anyone know how far the work will be taken? Guess there's little sense in widening a highway which will eventually be reduced to one or two lanes at the tunnel.

The Libs are still the current government so nothing has changed so far. A contract for the work being done is still in effect. However, once things are settled in the legislature, all bets are off. Governments have a history of blowing millions of dollars just to cancel projects already started. Time will tell..

[WarrenC12]

If only the government were forthcoming with exactly what contracts have been signed for what work, at what cost.

[libtard]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

If only the government were forthcoming with exactly what contracts have been signed for what work, at what cost.

They have done exactly that. They've signed a site prep contract for around 15 million.

[excel]

Lets hope it gets far enough along so they don't turn back. I can't say I fully agree with the size or price tag of this project but it needs to be done and it would really piss me off if all this time and money goes to waste.

[connect2source]

If the NDP-Greens are committed to some sort of improvement such as twinning the tunnel ( horrible idea ) then Hwy 99 will need to be widened regardless, as well as some improvements to the Steveston Hwy and Hwy 17A interchanges. So perhaps site-prep for widening at this point is productive and may influence a decision to so something with the tunnel.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by libtard

They have done exactly that. They've signed a site prep contract for around 15 million.

Ok good. $15M is nothing in this scale.

[rxp]

So what exactly is this pre construction package? are they actually going to expand the highway?

It looks to me that they might be able to pave over it and add a lane or two on either end?

[libtard]

Originally Posted by rxp

So what exactly is this pre construction package? are they actually going to expand the highway?

It looks to me that they might be able to pave over it and add a lane or two on either end?

Expanding the highway comes with the new bridge/interchange/etc. When that contract gets awarded. Right now they're just prepping the ground and making everything more accessible.

[flipper316]

Even if the bridge itself gets canceled, let's hope the highway at least gets expanded. Probably been discussed before but it's kind of disappointing for the price tag which is pretty similar to the Highway 1 improvement project we're only getting an HOV lane added to north and southbound. On top of that it's only getting expanded to Highway 91. Should've been to at least 32nd Ave and in turn that interchange could've been improved as well, which was on the drawing board since 2012 i believe.

[Metro-One]

umm, it is a far bigger project than you are giving it credit for.

It is pretty much completely re-building the entire highway from 91 to the Oak Street bridge.

The Steveston interchange alone is a massive project, not to mention every other interchange being re-built, the province's largest bridge (it will be around 1km longer than the Port Mann), and the considerable rapid bus infrastructure.

It is around 30 km (if not more?) of the entire highway being re-built.

The lane counts throughout the project are also quite adequate (went through this before but the the only 3 by 3 section would be south of the SFPR interchange).

I do agree though, the rapid bus / HOV lane aspect should be built to at least King George or 152nd in order to have a proper rapid bus all there way to White Rock.

Again, cancelling this project is a huge mistake.

And honestly, without expanding the horrid choke point that is the tunnel, there is no point in expanding any other sections of the highway.