High Speed Rail in Canada

[lrt's friend]

I am in Ottawa and I remember having to go to a business meeting in Guelph in winter. I used VIA to get to Toronto but had to rent a car to get to Guelph. I remember checking VIA schedules at the time and I could not make it work. I would have loved to have been able to make the whole trip by rail with a short taxi in Guelph. As it stood, I was glad to have made the Ottawa-Toronto portion by rail as there was a blizzard, but I was definitely looking to make the whole trip by rail. A business associate drove the whole way and it was a white knuckling experience.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

A lot has come out since. And it's clear that their greenfield corridor is the the Shining Waters track. They'll have to come up with a Plan B for all the Lakeshore cities and towns losing out. I figures they'll have to do some kind of DMU service. Bombardier will get some nice orders for Talent DMUs.

Talent DMUs are no longer available. Ottawa had a few Talent DMUs and had to replace them as they could not increase their fleet.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I am in Ottawa and I remember having to go to a business meeting in Guelph in winter. I used VIA to get to Toronto but had to rent a car to get to Guelph. I remember checking VIA schedules at the time and I could not make it work. I would have loved to have been able to make the whole trip by rail with a short taxi in Guelph. As it stood, I was glad to have made the Ottawa-Toronto portion by rail as there was a blizzard, but I was definitely looking to make the whole trip by rail. A business associate drove the whole way and it was a white knuckling experience.

This. For the life of me I can't understand how rail is not more popular in Canada given our climate. I used to drive every second weekend from Ottawa to Toronto many years back. It was horrible in the winter. I had to worry about weather all the time. And once had the car spin out on the 401 (thankfully at low speed) over a random patch of black ice that didn't show up in the forecast. Give me reliable rail at a reasonable price and I will not drive long distance again.

[OutOfTowner]

I think we should promote our rail system as a 'Trip into the past' to tourists from First World countries.

"Ride Slowly, in antique rolling stock!"

Could be a nostalgia trip for retired people from advanced civilizations!

"Reminds me of the war years Helga" "Oh yes indeed Franz"

"And look! Wooden hydro poles!" "Oh.. it has been so long since I've seen those. The memories.."

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

A lot has come out since. And it's clear that their greenfield corridor is the the Shining Waters track. They'll have to come up with a Plan B for all the Lakeshore cities and towns losing out. I figures they'll have to do some kind of DMU service. Bombardier will get some nice orders for Talent DMUs.

I suspect they'd keep a secondary line servicing Kingston with connections to Ottawa, Toronto and Montreal, probably with less frequency than they get today though.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

This. For the life of me I can't understand how rail is not more popular in Canada given our climate. I used to drive every second weekend from Ottawa to Toronto many years back. It was horrible in the winter. I had to worry about weather all the time. And once had the car spin out on the 401 (thankfully at low speed) over a random patch of black ice that didn't show up in the forecast. Give me reliable rail at a reasonable price and I will not drive long distance again.

Agree wholeheartedly. I've had more than my fill of near death winter driving experiences in the Maritimes (mostly in northern NS). I simply refuse to drive out of town if bad weather is forecast in the wintertime any more.

Rail however is safe and reliable. I agree - Canadians should really embrace rail more.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Agree wholeheartedly. I've had more than my fill of near death winter driving experiences in the Maritimes (mostly in northern NS). I simply refuse to drive out of town if bad weather is forecast in the wintertime any more.

Rail however is safe and reliable. I agree - Canadians should really embrace rail more.

If we had rail worth embracing, we might! Chicken, meet egg ....

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by OutOfTowner

I think we should promote our rail system as a 'Trip into the past' to tourists from First World countries.

"Ride Slowly, in antique rolling stock!"

Could be a nostalgia trip for retired people from advanced civilizations!

"Reminds me of the war years Helga" "Oh yes indeed Franz"

"And look! Wooden hydro poles!" "Oh.. it has been so long since I've seen those. The memories.."

I dunno.. I've been on train routes in Poland and Austria where the speed and frequency is not that far off from what VIA offers in the Corridor.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Agree wholeheartedly. I've had more than my fill of near death winter driving experiences in the Maritimes (mostly in northern NS). I simply refuse to drive out of town if bad weather is forecast in the wintertime any more.

Rail however is safe and reliable. I agree - Canadians should really embrace rail more.

It also shows how pointless it is to wait for automated vehicles. We'll get full automation after most of the world. Because our climate and road infrastructure will not be friendly to full automation all year round.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

I suspect they'd keep a secondary line servicing Kingston with connections to Ottawa, Toronto and Montreal, probably with less frequency than they get today though.

From what I've read way back they aren't pledging cuts in services. They've even said Kingston will be a hub of sorts. Seems to me that implies some kind of DMU service with decent frequency (decent by Canadian, not global standards). I could see a 2-3 car DMU running every 2 hrs.

[TownGuy]

It should be noted that they've made major investments to a number of stations along the current route. Why do that if you're going to drastically cut back service a few years later?

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by TownGuy

It should be noted that they've made major investments to a number of stations along the current route. Why do that if you're going to drastically cut back service a few years later?

Because VIA Rail, Canadian Crown Corporation.

[swimmer_spe]

I think ti really comes down to how the average citizen views the various transportation modes.

The car - freedom
The plane - wealth
the train - an excursion into the hinterland
The bus - poor

The car companies and airlines have done a lot of work making those labels stick in North America.

[OutOfTowner]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

I dunno.. I've been on train routes in Poland and Austria where the speed and frequency is not that far off from what VIA offers in the Corridor.

I see. So the worst rail service in Poland and Austria is almost as bad as the best rail service in Canada?

OK!

[OutOfTowner]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I think ti really comes down to how the average citizen views the various transportation modes.

The car - freedom
The plane - wealth
the train - an excursion into the hinterland
The bus - poor

The car companies and airlines have done a lot of work making those labels stick in North America.

Any serious attempt at establishing modern rail in Canada - the Montreal Toronto corridor in particular - will be met with ferocious lobbying by the airline industry and massive roadblocks put up by CN and CP. The latter two behave like slender, independent fiefdoms.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by OutOfTowner

Any serious attempt at establishing modern rail in Canada - the Montreal Toronto corridor in particular - will be met with ferocious lobbying by the airline industry and massive roadblocks put up by CN and CP. The latter two behave like slender, independent fiefdoms.

Which is why I have always thought we should nationalize the rail lines, and just contract them out for freight. No politician would ever do it, but it would be the best thing for the country.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I think ti really comes down to how the average citizen views the various transportation modes.

The car - freedom
The plane - wealth
the train - an excursion into the hinterland
The bus - poor

The car companies and airlines have done a lot of work making those labels stick in North America.

The bus companies have also done their part. There is no reason you couldn't have luxury buses doing big inter-city routes.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I think ti really comes down to how the average citizen views the various transportation modes.

The car - freedom
The plane - wealth
the train - an excursion into the hinterland
The bus - poor

The car companies and airlines have done a lot of work making those labels stick in North America.

I actually think that the average citizen doesn't even think about the train or bus (I'm assuming you mean intercity bus).

So it's probably more like:

The car - default choice if I'm traveling <500 km
The plane - default choice if I'm traveling >500 km
Train - ?
Bus - ?

That doesn't mean that they like the car or the plane.

I certainly don't think North Americans associate air travel with wealth anymore. I once flew a red eye flight between Phoenix and Atlanta on Southwest Airlines, and eyeing my fellow passengers at the gate, the word "wealthy" didn't exactly come to mind.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

I actually think that the average citizen doesn't even think about the train or bus (I'm assuming you mean intercity bus).

So it's probably more like:

The car - default choice if I'm traveling <500 km
The plane - default choice if I'm traveling >500 km
Train - ?
Bus - ?

That doesn't mean that they like the car or the plane.

I certainly don't think North Americans associate air travel with wealth anymore. I once flew a red eye flight between Phoenix and Atlanta on Southwest Airlines, and eyeing my fellow passengers at the gate, the word "wealthy" didn't exactly come to mind.

They view a plane as that they are moving up in the world because they can afford to take a plane.

I do mean intercity bus. I think they see it as - I have a car, why take a bus?

As far as train, most are surprised we even have trains running.

[lrt's friend]

There are increasing opportunities for rail because roads are becoming increasingly congested and air travel has become a miserable experience. It has started to become a big issue between Toronto and Ottawa and that is why rail ridership is growing on that route. There is a similar opportunity is southwestern Ontario where driving is the only current choice.