The Great Canadian Transit Thread

[caltrane74]

Sweet Rides


http://www.frontpagemediagroup.ca

[caltrane74]

Metrolinx, tearing up Toronto. One Intersection at a time.

Massive work underway on Yonge-Eglinton, and Don Mills-Eglinton.

New underground LRT stations. The one at Yonge and Eglinton, will be absolutely massive.

[shreddog]

Didn't see this posted yet, so apologies if it's a repeat ...

Innisfil, Ont., partners with Uber to create substitute for public transit

Starting today, Innisfil, Ont., will become the first town in Canada to partner with the controversial ride-hailing service Uber to provide on-demand transit service.

The roughly 36,000-population Ontario town, just south of Barrie on the western shore of Lake Simcoe, is officially launching the service at 10 a.m. to help address community concerns about a lack of transit.
...
Buying two buses for the town, hiring drivers, and putting bus stops in would cost roughly $1 million, Wauchope told CBC/Radio-Canada on Sunday.

In contrast, around $175,000 has been put aside for the six-month pilot project, which also includes using local taxi companies for accessible rides.
...
According to the town, Innisfil residents will be able to book trips anytime, anywhere. Certain key destinations — such as the Barrie South GO train station and Innisfil Recreational Complex and Town Hall area — will have set rates of $3 to $5.
...
What's not yet clear is how long that pool of town money will last, or what comes next after the half-year pilot project.
...
"I like the fact that it's on demand, that you're not wasting bus time," Cameron added.
...
Now, it's a waiting game to see how the partnership plays out — and whether the town can afford to keep the project going long-term.

[swimmer_spe]

During the constructiion, they should have made Eglinton "local traffic" only.

[lrt's friend]

Sorry but Uber is a poor substitute for public transit. It requires a phone with a data plan which leaves a lot of people out. Data plans are way too expensive for many.

[1overcosc]

76% of Canadians have smart phones and that number is rapidly rising.

[rbt]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Sorry but Uber is a poor substitute for public transit. It requires a phone with a data plan which leaves a lot of people out. Data plans are way too expensive for many.

I think no public transit option at all (what they had before this) is an even poorer substitute. Subsidized cab service is a common way for smaller towns to enter into offering a public transit.

A mobile data plan sufficient for this would be $20/month (PC Mobile $15 prepaid plan + $5 for 100MB data/month) which shouldn't be impossible for regular users to achieve; it'll be a small fraction of their total subsidized Uber bill for the month.

Also, whatever they used to do for transportation is still an option. Nothing was removed by the town in creating this service.

[Beedok]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

76% of Canadians have smart phones and that number is rapidly rising.

A phone=/=data

[Doady]

Uber is not a proper alternative to a proper fixed-route bus system. But I don't think Innisfil can support fixed routes yet. Maybe an on-demand service like Uber is the only choice.

[swimmer_spe]

If anyone knows Innisfil, it is mainly a rural farming area just south of Barrie. Those farms are being bought and turned into single family homes(how are we going to grow food? But that's another thread...) Right now, fixed routes would not work. This is a good stop gap measure till the area grows enough for fixed routes. This will also help the town plan the fixed routes based off of ridership.

And for those of you who think that data plans are going to be a challenge, most of the people living there are middle class. They likely have decent plans.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

76% of Canadians have smart phones and that number is rapidly rising.

The 24% that don't also tend to be the same people that rely on public transit. That said, it's a benefit if the Innisfil experiment is successful. Towns typically have terrible transit or none at all. Uber isn't perfect but might be the best alternative.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Beedok

A phone=/=data

Quite a few people I know do not use data at all, and rely on WiFi with their smartphones.

Forcing people to use a smartphone app to access public transit will shut out many seniors who do not have, nor want the technology.

Aside from that, I have found data to be generally unreliable compared with WiFi. One of the few times I used Uber, I had to wait over three minutes for the app to properly load.

[WhipperSnapper]

I imagine most adults have some data now. There's just so many practical apps now that need it. I can't imagine how sucky the TTC would be without the GPS tracking apps.

[ssiguy]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

Quite a few people I know do not use data at all, and rely on WiFi with their smartphones.

Forcing people to use a smartphone app to access public transit will shut out many seniors who do not have, nor want the technology.

Aside from that, I have found data to be generally unreliable compared with WiFi. One of the few times I used Uber, I had to wait over three minutes for the app to properly load.

This is very true, most seniors don't have IPhones. I don't have one and have no desire to get one. The mentally handicapped also use transit and for the vast majority, IPhones are simply not possible for them.

Transit has made great strides in the last 30 years in the realm of physical accessibility for those with mobility, visual, and hearing disabilities. It shouldn't turn around and begin to make accessing the system more difficult for the people who need it most by relying too much on IPhones which the elderly and disabled may not have and the less fortunate can't afford.

[1overcosc]

iPhones are extremely expensive but Android smartphones are much cheaper and you can get much cheaper plans for them. The iPhone would not exist if it were not for that segment of the population that has stupid blind loyalty to Apple.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

iPhones are extremely expensive but Android smartphones are much cheaper and you can get much cheaper plans for them. The iPhone would not exist if it were not for that segment of the population that has stupid blind loyalty to Apple.

I think he was just using the term "iPhone" as a proxy for smartphone. Android phones can be much cheaper, but I don't think the actual data is cheaper with most providers. Any cheaper plan would be due to having the cost of the phone factored in, or simply having a plan with less data. Bit of a rant but IMO the anti-Apple circlejerk tends to be just as cringey as the stereotypical Apple fanboy. Each have their pros and cons. I personally prefer my iPhone to any Android product I've used for a number of reasons and have no issues with cost so don't see the big deal. I can also usually get a new phone for a few hundred dollars outright as the resale value of the previous versions remain high.

Regardless, though it seems that this setup may work fine for Innisfil, I don't think it should be used as any sort of precedent. Also worth noting that the discount phone carriers can have spotty coverage in rural areas, which is the type of place a setup may actually be feasible (in theory).

[Horus]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

If anyone knows Innisfil, it is mainly a rural farming area just south of Barrie. Those farms are being bought and turned into single family homes(how are we going to grow food? But that's another thread...) Right now, fixed routes would not work. This is a good stop gap measure till the area grows enough for fixed routes. This will also help the town plan the fixed routes based off of ridership.

And for those of you who think that data plans are going to be a challenge, most of the people living there are middle class. They likely have decent plans.

In addition to the farming area, Innisfil is also home to a number of small bedroom communities (Cookstown, Alcona, Stroud, Lefroy, Gilford, Thornton, and others) and Seniors communities (Sandy Cove). Most people have cars, so transit demand would be very low anyway. As bedroom communities, there are very few employment hubs in the township, with a high majority of people working in Toronto or Barrie or Alliston (Honda). It's even only recently that any kind of substantial retail presence was found in Innsifil with the development of a 'shopping zone' in Alcona. Most people relied on shopping in Barrie, Bradford or Alliston before that.

If there was any need for transit, it would likely be for commuters to get to the Innisfil GO station or to link into the Barrie Transit network.

I don't think this is a representative model for other small towns who may need transit solutions, as had been suggested by other posters, either for or against substituting UBER for municipal transit services. Innisfil is a pretty specialized case in this regard.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

iPhones are extremely expensive but Android smartphones are much cheaper and you can get much cheaper plans for them. The iPhone would not exist if it were not for that segment of the population that has stupid blind loyalty to Apple.

smartphones with data are obscenely expensive. I was away for 3 weeks and they wanted $100 for one month that bought me what amounted to very little data. I ended up using WiFi, which doesn't work everywhere obviously.

I have heard of people spending $200 to $300 per month for a family plan.

If you are on a limited income, we call this affordable?

When I shopped for a new phone last fall, it was over $50 per month for very limited data. I shopped again very recently and it started at $75 per month. I concluded that a data plan is not worth doubling or tripling the cost of the phone.

Fine, experiment with Uber, but it will never be real public transit.

I think there is going to be saturation point for telecommunications and technology in general. Prices for all telecommunications including cable has been escalating at a pace far greater than inflation. Unlike earlier technologies that reached nearly 100% of the market, the cost of these new technologies will never achieve that.

[GeneralLea]

Jeez.....Yonge and Eglinton isn't going to be pretty for a good few years until this transit work is done. The Crosstown will be an insanely important line I'd say....fingers crossed at least....Here's some pics from today:
Yonge:
[IMG]Crawl by Josh Kenn Photographics, on Flickr[/IMG]
Eglinton
[IMG]Southeast corner flattened by Josh Kenn Photographics, on Flickr[/IMG][IMG]choo Choo by Josh Kenn Photographics, on Flickr[/IMG]

[caltrane74]

You see the size of our new Yonge-Eglinton Station?

The Yonge line is about 3 times this length going in the south direction.

Will be crazy huge.