Highways in Canada

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by jmt18325

There are literally dozens of rest areas on 17 and 11. I used many of them.

That transport trucks can legally enter?

That have washrooms or outhouses?

That are open in winter?

That are clearly marked?

[Andy6]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

On the 400 and 401, those OnRoute stops are about 100km apart or less.

So, yes, up north, it is a problem that there are no rest areas that are reasonably close, or that trucks fit into, or that are open in winter.

Is that going to scoop even more money out of towns and villages where a truck stop or a restaurant is one of the few remaining viable businesses? I can see that being an issue in Bruce Mines or Desbarats or Thessalon. Echo Bay and Garden River seem to be limping along since they were bypassed, but I'm not sure how well towns can hold up in the long run if Highway 17 is de-localized into a through route where drivers can remain oblivious to the places they're passing through (as in the case of the 401 or similar highways). I wonder where a rest stop in Northern Ontario with services would pay its municipal taxes to ... a lot of Highway 17 runs through unorganized townships, at least north of Superior. Not sure how that works.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

That transport trucks can legally enter?

That have washrooms or outhouses?

That are open in winter?

That are clearly marked?

Clearly marked with washrooms - yes. There are 10 between Nipigon and Cochrane on 11, many of which can fit trucks. I have no idea how many are open in Winter. That would be pretty difficult with no power.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Andy6

Is that going to scoop even more money out of towns and villages where a truck stop or a restaurant is one of the few remaining viable businesses? I can see that being an issue in Bruce Mines or Desbarats or Thessalon. Echo Bay and Garden River seem to be limping along since they were bypassed, but I'm not sure how well towns can hold up in the long run if Highway 17 is de-localized into a through route where drivers can remain oblivious to the places they're passing through (as in the case of the 401 or similar highways). I wonder where a rest stop in Northern Ontario with services would pay its municipal taxes to ... a lot of Highway 17 runs through unorganized townships, at least north of Superior. Not sure how that works.

I am not suggesting new OnRoute stops up there. I am suggesting rest areas that have a toilet and that is open year round and trucks can enter it.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@45.5972129,-...dmXdtjTlbo9s3pA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

That is what I mean.

I did say that these highways did not need to meet 400 series standards. That means that billboards are acceptable.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by jmt18325

Clearly marked with washrooms - yes. There are 10 between Nipigon and Cochrane on 11, many of which can fit trucks. I have no idea how many are open in Winter. That would be pretty difficult with no power.

Trucks cannot legally enter any of the "picnic" sites, like this one:
https://www.google.ca/search?q=ontario+h...g&biw=1467&bih=664#imgrc=rKCbrk1ZcwcIUM:

They are all closed. Since none of them need electricity, plowing the parking lot enough for vehicles to use it and shoveling the entrances to the buildings is enough.

So, nope, not good enough.

[vid]

There are a lot of truck stops. Between Nipigon and Winnipeg, there are places for trucks to pull over and stop at least every 100km. They're not run by the province, but they exist.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by vid

There are a lot of truck stops. Between Nipigon and Winnipeg, there are places for trucks to pull over and stop at least every 100km. They're not run by the province, but they exist.

The same could be said about Southern Ontario, yet the government wasted millions of taxpayers dollars for those OnRoute service centres.

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

The same could be said about Southern Ontario, yet the government wasted millions of taxpayers dollars for those OnRoute service centres.

The province leases OnRoute Service Centre's to a private sector operator. (I think they are run by HMS Host, if memory serves me, but I could be mistaken.) When the OnRoutes were redeveloped, it was because the 50 year old lease agreement with the previous private sector operator had expired. The OnRoute's generate tax revenue for Ontarians, not the other way around.

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

2) Everywhere traffic slows down for a town or a tight curve, by pass it and make it 4 lanes. That fixes much of the safety problems.
https://www.sootoday.com/opp-beat/serious-crash-closes-highway-17-near-blind-river-608263

Given the circumstances of the incident. (Walking on the eastbound lanes at 4 in the morning), this incident probably has more to do with mental health issues than highway design.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

Given the circumstances of the incident. (Walking on the eastbound lanes at 4 in the morning), this incident probably has more to do with mental health issues than highway design.

The problem is, to get into or out of town they have to walk on the highway. Now if there was a 4 lane highway elsewhere, this might not have happened.

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

The problem is, to get into or out of town they have to walk on the highway. Now if there was a 4 lane highway elsewhere, this might not have happened.

That's why they are always talking about relocating the subway too...

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

That's why they are always talking about relocating the subway too...

Subway?

[sonysnob]

I was being sarcastic. A society can't relocate a major piece of infrastructure solely because some distraught individual takes their life on it. It's certainly an unfortunate case, but it's not the highway's fault that this incident happened. Relocating the highway isn't going to solve the problem that caused this fatality.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

I was being sarcastic. A society can't relocate a major piece of infrastructure solely because some distraught individual takes their life on it. It's certainly an unfortunate case, but it's not the highway's fault that this incident happened. Relocating the highway isn't going to solve the problem that caused this fatality.

If the current highway became a side road, it would be much safer for people to walk along it, regardless of the time of day.

Would it be smart to try to walk along Highway 401? It is no better to walk along highway 17. The real problem is, they have no other choice in that area.

[sonysnob]

I don't think it really matters if someone is desperate enough:

https://www.northumberlandnews.com/news-...ruck-and-killed-on-hwy-401-in-port-hope/

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by sonysnob

I don't think it really matters if someone is desperate enough:

https://www.northumberlandnews.com/news-...ruck-and-killed-on-hwy-401-in-port-hope/

There are other roads that this person could have taken. Between the Reservation and Blind River

There - Is - No -Other - Route ! ! ! !

[sonysnob]

Right, but this person wasn't walking on the shoulder, the article indicates the pedestrian walking in the lane, and based on the fact that the article doesn't indicate that the driver was charged (or was planning to be charged), or provide any reason to explain the fact that the person was walking on the highway, it's pretty easy to deduce that the person who was killed wasn't out for a casual stroll on the highway at 4 am. They were looking for the vehicle that struck them. Pay attention to what the article doesn't say... it's relevant.

The fact that there isn't an alternate pedestrian route doesn't matter in this case.

[wave46]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

There are other roads that this person could have taken. Between the Reservation and Blind River

There - Is - No -Other - Route ! ! ! !

There is a point where you have to accept two things:

1. Life is dangerous and will invariably involve risk and
2. Money is finite.

There will always be death and incidents when we travel in vehicles at high speeds. It is the unfortunate nature of the beast. Our society has accepted this as a risk that is outweighed by the convenience of rapid and individualized travel. It is not practical to deal with every possible contingency - there is simply not enough wealth in the society in which we live to build the infrastructure to guarantee everyone's safety.

While I do support the construction of improved highways and safety measures where they can be reasonably implemented, the compromises required require sacrifices elsewhere. Even then, there are accidents - the 4-lane section of Highway 69 has had several unfortunate accidents despite being engineered to a very high standard.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by jmt18325

There are literally dozens of rest areas on 17 and 11. I used many of them.

Are they open from October to May?

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Are they open from October to May?

I'm assuming not.