Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Same as lots of downtown stations depending on your destination and time of day.

Ultimately, when the south side of Beresford is built out, the station will be better integrated into the neighbourhood with people coming down to grade and distribution from there, rather than funnelling everyone to the mall.

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

That's what ground-level exits (or a south side overpass and elevated street) are for. If people want to go to Metrotown, let them go to Metrotown. Why force them to cross the road?

People were being funnelled to the mall *and bus loop* and neither of those things are going to disappear anytime soon. There were also stairs from the ticket level to the ground for anyone who wanted to travel elsewhere. Guess what - they weren't used anywhere near as much as the overhead walkway. The new overhead walkway is supposed to connect the elevator entrance to the mall.

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Yeah, it is not an ultimatum.

Metrotown is the regions largest and busiest mall, having a direct skybridge to the train station beside it is not a revolutionary idea. Essentially anywhere else in the world would have one.

[officedweller]

All I'm saying is that it isn't the end of the world.


https://www.gojapango.com/location/tokyo/tokyo/

[Metro-One]

knowing Japan there is probably an underground connection there.

I really wouldn't use Japan as an example if you are actually against the use of grade separated walkways / connections.

I see about 10 grade separated walkways in similar sized areas in Japan for every 1 that I see in metro-Vancouver.

Perfect example is Okayama, a metro-area of about 800 000 people, yet its downtown core has far more underground connections / passageways than the entirety of metro-Vancouver (and the city doesn't even have a subway system!)

And yes, you can walk from the Okayama station to the region's largest mall about 600 meters away without walking across a single intersection.

[officedweller]

It was more of a comment that even in other places (regardless of connections), people still wait at lights.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by officedweller

It was more of a comment that even in other places (regardless of connections), people still wait at lights.

If they have no choice, like at Shibuya Crossing above, yes. That, however, is one scramble for one entrance to one station, where no over or underpasses are possible.

City Centre-Granville, were it in any other city, would be one big station linked by a tunnel (possibly filled with retail space); instead, you're supposed to leave the station, wait at a light, wait at another light, then enter another station. Come on, even Pyongyang has underground connections!

And Metrotown has an overpass to the mall; if you don't want to go to the mall, just take the stairs/elevator to ground level and walk.

[gillty]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

knowing Japan there is probably an underground connection there.

I really wouldn't use Japan as an example if you are actually against the use of grade separated walkways / connections.

I see about 10 grade separated walkways in similar sized areas in Japan for every 1 that I see in metro-Vancouver.

Perfect example is Okayama, a metro-area of about 800 000 people, yet its downtown core has far more underground connections / passageways than the entirety of metro-Vancouver (and the city doesn't even have a subway system!)

And yes, you can walk from the Okayama station to the region's largest mall about 600 meters away without walking across a single intersection.

Are well really discussing the area around JR Okayama Station in the Millennium Line Broadway extension thread?

There are countless reasons why Japanese examples are not analogous to Metrotown station.

Metrotown has been surrounded by among the lowest income of neighbourhoods in Metro Van for decades, the streetscape is undergoing a renewal that requires people to populate the street level.

I can walk down any street in Japan and not feel a concern for my safety. I cannot do so around Metrotown or most of Vancouver at 1am. There are countless sociological reasons for this that go far beyond infrastructure development.

Metrotown needs people to populate its streetscapes if it is to transform beyond a shopping centre into a community, because frankly the current state of Metrotown as a neighbourhood is and has been highly depressed.

Also let's not forget famous Japanese projects of infrastructure renewal, Shibuya Station, among countless other major stations in Japanese cities, has been a goddamn mess of inaccessibility for a decade now. The inconvenience of these projects far outstrips the state of Metrotown right now.

Japan operates in a distinctly unique fashion that makes most examples incongruent with anything in Vancouver, or most of the world. Urban planning goes beyond some Sim City fantasy of infrastructure.

Sorry for the continued offtopic discussion, but I had to chime in here.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by officedweller

It was more of a comment that even in other places (regardless of connections), people still wait at lights.

Sure, but it doesn't change the fact that eliminating the overhead walkway to such a popular destination SUCKS.

[red-paladin]

Let's steer this thread back on topic..

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by gillty

Are well really discussing the area around JR Okayama Station in the Millennium Line Broadway extension thread?

There are countless reasons why Japanese examples are not analogous to Metrotown station.

Metrotown has been surrounded by among the lowest income of neighbourhoods in Metro Van for decades, the streetscape is undergoing a renewal that requires people to populate the street level.

I can walk down any street in Japan and not feel a concern for my safety. I cannot do so around Metrotown or most of Vancouver at 1am. There are countless sociological reasons for this that go far beyond infrastructure development.

Metrotown needs people to populate its streetscapes if it is to transform beyond a shopping centre into a community, because frankly the current state of Metrotown as a neighbourhood is and has been highly depressed.

Also let's not forget famous Japanese projects of infrastructure renewal, Shibuya Station, among countless other major stations in Japanese cities, has been a goddamn mess of inaccessibility for a decade now. The inconvenience of these projects far outstrips the state of Metrotown right now.

Japan operates in a distinctly unique fashion that makes most examples incongruent with anything in Vancouver, or most of the world. Urban planning goes beyond some Sim City fantasy of infrastructure.

Sorry for the continued offtopic discussion, but I had to chime in here.

Sorry, but this reasoning is bizarre to me...

You don't want an overhead walkway (sheltered from the rain no less) between one of the busiest stations and the busiest mall in a metro region with over 2.5 million people over a single street because you want to socially engineer everyone to use the street?

That will make the area happy and safe? Seriously, this must be a joke.

And sorry, if rail (what Japan does best) and urban design examples from Japan are not useful to discuss when it comes to urban planning in Metro-Vancouver, then we also have to stop using Europe as an example for bike infrastructure and other urban aspects, because as you know there is a world of difference between Vancouver and Europe as well.

And sorry, but that mall is not going anywhere. It may transform, akin to Brentwood and what is planned for Lougheed (both have overhead pedestrian walkways as part of their projects).

Having such a walkways will not make Metrotown safer or hold it back from becoming a real community, seriously, social engineering at is craziest. There will be more than enough people at street level now with all of the new development happing on the south side of the station (and other directions away from the mall) that you don't need to force all of those patrons going to the mall to cross the street so you can feel safe at 1AM...

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

the document did say it would have an underground connection. so that's good. hopefully it isn't like Burrad and Park Place's underground connection though...

i hope it also does connect to the basement of Crossroads and that they add 2 other entrance on the S/W and N/E corners. it would be good if they could build under ground connections to all the corners with shops etc. since that whole intersection is a mess. pedestrians don't listen to lights and meander and there are a ton of cars.

the future of Broadway should include something like Toronto; underground connections to the buildings.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

the future of Broadway should include something like Toronto; underground connections to the buildings.

Toronto, Singapore, LA, Hong Kong, London, Dubai, or basically any city that understands that walkability isn't limited to street level.

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Toronto, Singapore, LA, Hong Kong, London, Dubai, or basically any city that understands that walkability isn't limited to street level.

I don't think Dubai understands walkability at all, though.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Jebby

I don't think Dubai understands walkability at all, though.

True. What I'm trying to say is that they do understand the concept of tunnels and stores/restaurants in tunnels; certain elements of Vancouver City Council do not.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Jebby

I don't think Dubai understands walkability at all, though.

True. What I'm trying to say is that they do understand the concept of tunnels and stores or restaurants in tunnels. Certain elements of City Council do not.

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

True. What I'm trying to say is that they do understand the concept of tunnels and stores/restaurants in tunnels; certain elements of Vancouver City Council do not.

I would love to see elements of Path at key stations along Broadway. Admittedly they'd have to team up with the buildings the stations would connect to, and still have to have an entrance to the sidewalk. Overhead walkways are a similar situation for the above ground stations. Why do we have so few of them?

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Sheba

I would love to see elements of Path at key stations along Broadway. Admittedly they'd have to team up with the buildings the stations would connect to, and still have to have an entrance to the sidewalk. Overhead walkways are a similar situation for the above ground stations. Why do we have so few of them?

I think it might be due to the earthquake risk.

You can almost walk from Union station to Bloor Subway, all underground.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by Jebby

I don't think Dubai understands walkability at all, though.

I've mentioned it before. Walkability has to take into consideration the climate, which few are doing.

Metrotown is walkable, by itself, but when it rains, people want to be inside the mall, not walking down kingsway or central. When Station Square was being redeveloped I was rather disappointed that the redevelopment was basically nothing at the mall level. All that really got redeveloped was the space the SaveOn took up. PetSmart replaced Futureshop, and for some bone-headed reason Bestbuy moved to this smaller inconvenient location from the much more noticeable Kingsway location (that remains empty.) My guess is that they got a better deal from the Station Square property that used to have FutureShop.

Dubai, Las Vegas, are perpetual ovens due to being deserts, you are not going to be outside except at night. Nobody in their right mind goes outside for more than a minute.

Vancouver, Seattle and Portland have rainy weather with the occasional burst of snow. Nobody wants to be outside when it's wet and it's reflected in the different transit/vehicle mode share usage. When it rains, people overwhelmingly choose their car unless they can avoid standing outside for a bus.

Toronto, Montreal, Calgary and Ottawa are much colder climates during winter, but also much dryer due how the hydrologic cycle works. So having a "walkable" street is possible for several months of the year, versus the one or two months in the summer in Metro Vancouver, or never in Las Vegas or Dubai.

[VarBreStr18]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

This is all why what happens at BWAY City Hall will be particularly interesting, entrances on both sides of the intersection pleeeeeease.

Even better NE, NW , SW entrances , then the Broadway/Cambie intersection wont be such a nightmare.

[Feathered Friend]

SNC Lavalin Environmental Investigation at W Broadway and MacDonald St
Location:
W Broadway and MacDonald St
Expected Schedule:
May 6, 2017 - May 7, 2017; Weekends; 7:00 AM - 7:00 PM
Status: Approved
Description:
Traffic at both sides of W Broadway and MacDonald St will be reduced to two lanes in each direction from 7am to 7pm on Saturday and Sunday to facilitate environmental investigation work.
Posted: May 4, 2017
Updated: May 4, 2017 2:43 PM
City Contact: Marie Javan 87371 [email protected]
Applicant Contact: Jerry Johnston 604.515.5151 ext. 55215

I would assume / hope that this is related to phase 2 of the expansion.