New Downtown Calgary Arena

[patm]

If you're expecting to build residential towers all around Stampede Trail that's fine, but who is going to live in them? You're essentially arguing that Stampede Trail will work if we get thousands of new young Calgarians willing to pay inner city housing prices to live right around this area.

Yes, if thousands people decide to move to that immediate area it'll be successful but I'm saying that it won't work in the current economic climate. Not unless it's at the expense of any of the other major bar districts.

As for the weather, if the idea is that people are supposed to bounce around bar to bar, it won't work in the winter. In the winter people will go to a bar and stay there and if it's colder than -20 they won't even go out at all. You'll have 1 or 2 successful bars and a bunch of empty ones.

[Calgarian]

How I see Stampede Trail working, is it has to be in conjunction with the redevelopment of Victoria Park and East Village. A new arena will be a good first step, adding something like a Real Sports would also help, but this isn't a build it and they will come scenario, we need people in the area all the time, not just event nights or Stampede. Downtown is close, but there isn't really anything in that part of downtown to provide customers, that's why Vagabond is pretty much the only place to go in the area (aside from the Casino of course). The new hotels in the area should help as well.

As for cold weather, like I said, all the other entertainment streets do just fine in -20. And there are only 20 or so days a year where it is that cold, so not really a problem.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by tomthumb2

Wow - if a huge city like LA has that problem, how can Calgary possibly tackle the same challenge. Maybe we do something like Nashville? Apparently the area around their arena is always hopping.

Never been there, but it's supposed to be in a sort of dead zone in DT LA. An arena by it's nature will be dead most of the time, that's why you try to combine it with other uses.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Never been there, but it's supposed to be in a sort of dead zone in DT LA. An arena by it's nature will be dead most of the time, that's why you try to combine it with other uses.

I've been there and it indeed is a deadzone outside of sports and events. While the arena complex itself is integrated with some restaurants and the like, the area beyond the footprint of the sports and convention facilities is void of anything to do and any other activities. On one side is a massive freeway right up against the site. On the other side is really nothing. Like seriously.

The stampede / victoria park are active way beyond the Staples Centre location, and have other pieces such as the NMC, 17th avenue leading to the stampede, and the still to be developed Olympic Way. In the LA example, there are also no really close hotels in the vicinity that people can walk over from. While that is the case in Calgary also, the Olympic Way, Stampede and West Village planning deals with this. Regarding LA, I know the shortcoming specifically because I was attending a convention at the site and wanted to stay close. I couldn't. I walked out of the facility to look around, thinking - hey this is LA there will be tonnes. Nothin'.

[EDIT]

Was just checking Google maps and looks like there is large scale development across from the Staples Centre and LA convention centre, so perhaps my prior observations are no longer valid.

[msmariner]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

WE have several bar districts (17ave, 4st, Stephen Ave, Kensington...). Whether Stampede tr. is successful will depend on the type of businesses that go in there, we can definitely support more areas.

Disagree completely. Cold weather is just part of living in Calgary, people don't just hide inside when it's cold, they still go out and do stuff. If you build an entertainment area that is well served by places people like, then it will be a success. This too cold argument for everything in this city drives me nuts.


Why does it need to be indoors? 17th ave isn't indoors, Kensington isn't indoors, Stephen Ave isn't indoors. Do you really not go out if it's cold out? put on a damn coat and it will be fine.



I think the Corral is protected, so it can't be demolished. The plans for expansion of BMO are towards Stampede Casino AFAIK.

As per a story on March 16, 2016 on CBC "the Corral will be torn down if the $500 BMO centre expansion goes ahead". The Stampede CEO said it is a big block of concrete and has no value

[PPAR]

Suburbia is right, I have been there a couple times as well and LA live is not particularly special. Many better sports and entertainment areas in the US.
As for Calgary being too cold, I would guess there are maybe 20 or 30 evenings a year where the temperature is significantly below -10C. That leaves 90 to 95% of the year when walking outside is no big deal. Calgary does better on this metric than Montreal, night life there is hardly restrained.

[People.talking]

Originally Posted by msmariner

As per a story on March 16, 2016 on CBC "the Corral will be torn down if the $500 BMO centre expansion goes ahead". The Stampede CEO said it is a big block of concrete and has no value

The only value I see in it is historical value...

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by People.talking

The only value I see in it is historical value...

Even the historical value is quite limited IMHO. But perhaps they can sell you a seat.

[tomthumb2]

Originally Posted by suburbia

Even the historical value is quite limited IMHO. But perhaps they can sell you a seat.

I think it has more historical value than that stupid smoke stack in Eau Claire but hey what do I know. All I can say is that it was a fun old barn to see junior games in, and Flames games those first few years. I even saw Canada play France there during the Olympics (I think it was a 5-5 tie, God we were shit, lol).

Having said that though, there's not much you can really do with it, except please save that buffalo head and all the great old photos in the concourse!

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by msmariner

As per a story on March 16, 2016 on CBC "the Corral will be torn down if the $500 BMO centre expansion goes ahead". The Stampede CEO said it is a big block of concrete and has no value

Has anyone seen a mock-up of the changes planned for BMO? $500M is significant. Adding Hall F would be only a fraction of that, so I'm particularly curious what would come in place of the Corral. I'd also like all of the concourse on the south side expanded - it is just way too tight.

[CorporateWhore]

Originally Posted by patm

In the winter people will go to a bar and stay there and if it's colder than -20 they won't even go out at all.

Starting to get old, huh polak? Welcome to the club.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by msmariner

As per a story on March 16, 2016 on CBC "the Corral will be torn down if the $500 BMO centre expansion goes ahead". The Stampede CEO said it is a big block of concrete and has no value

Awesome! I thought I remembered something about it being protected.

[CalgaryAlex]

Originally Posted by suburbia

Has anyone seen a mock-up of the changes planned for BMO? $500M is significant. Adding Hall F would be only a fraction of that, so I'm particularly curious what would come in place of the Corral. I'd also like all of the concourse on the south side expanded - it is just way too tight.

I'm also curious about what will happen where 17th Ave will come onto Stampede Park. Will it cross the tracks and just run into the BMO? Or will they take a chunk off of the BMO so 17th can join up with Olympic Way? I'm looking forward to seeing what the CMLC comes up with.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by CalgaryAlex

I'm also curious about what will happen where 17th Ave will come onto Stampede Park. Will it cross the tracks and just run into the BMO? Or will they take a chunk off of the BMO so 17th can join up with Olympic Way? I'm looking forward to seeing what the CMLC comes up with.

Roads can curve.

[CalgaryAlex]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Roads can curve.

I guess if they tear down the Corral it could get to Olympic Way without much of a deviation.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by CalgaryAlex

I guess if they tear down the Corral it could get to Olympic Way without much of a deviation.

The Corral doesn't make the deviation much worse, and it is only worse on a map, as in inelegant. In operation no one will notice, and the Stampede gets more 17th Ave street-front to develop.

[Bad Grizzly]

Very much so, and this is why I think the ICE district will be a fail once all is said and done.

Originally Posted by PPAR

Suburbia is right, I have been there a couple times as well and LA live is not particularly special. Many better sports and entertainment areas in the US.
As for Calgary being too cold, I would guess there are maybe 20 or 30 evenings a year where the temperature is significantly below -10C. That leaves 90 to 95% of the year when walking outside is no big deal. Calgary does better on this metric than Montreal, night life there is hardly restrained.

[craner]

^Bad Griz
What you quoted from PPAR doesn't really support your statement.

Are you saying ICE district will fail because it's too cold ? (That's a rather ironic statement ).

[craner]

Somewhere back in this thread (or the previous one) there was a schematic plan for the Stampede Grounds showing the BMO Centre expansion and the Corral demo. I thought it was posted by Suburbia but I guess not.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Correct that there is still space for I believe two more halls in BMO heading towards the casino building. Those newest halls there are D & E, so I'd assume any new ones would be F & G.

No I don't think so. With the existing planning / what's on the books, only one more - that would be F. When the new side was built initially, it only had D, so at that time there was space for two more. Then subsequently, E was added, leaving only space for one additional 50K sf hall - IE F. Once that one is completed, the old (ABC) and new (DEF) would both be 150K sf. Difference being, that on the old side, only B is pillar free, whereas on the new side, each of the three are pillar free (though there are pillars between the halls). Additionally, not only do A and C have additional pillars throughout, they are also much lower clearance. Finally, the concourse on the new side is much much better, and the new side also is serviced better by washrooms / quality of washrooms.

You get some sense of it here, when you consider the full length of the concourse that goes to the end of the future hall DEF (and this also shows the A/C pillars):
http://venues.calgarystampede.com/upload/media_element/7/01/bmo-jan2011.pdf

You can see it even better (IE only space for one more hall) here:
http://venues.calgarystampede.com/upload/slide/8/01/aerial8.jpg