ATLANTA | Development Thread VI

[Martinman]

^^ I mean if you can't see a difference between those two developments then there's really nothing to discuss.

RE Northside development:
The fact that this is even possible in the very heart of the city in 2017 is just so frustrating. Fuqua doesn't even bother with his so called "new urbanism " in this one. Just straight up suburban crap.

Someone mentioned rewriting zoning in the city which is going to happen but it will take several years. I just wish there were someone in the city with enough foresight to put a stop to this kind of garbage until the rewrite is done.

[Verge]

Originally Posted by testarossa50

Atlanta3000,

I'm sorry, but that's a horrible comparison. The Georgia Avenue area has numerous existing buildings already and is split into many parcels due to its historic use. This is restoring that historic use and has precedent in many of Atlanta's most beloved neighborhoods: VaHi, Edgewood Avenue, etc.

I actually don't disagree that they should be pushing for higher residential density around the edge of the existing Georgia Ave buildings, but this isn't even a construction proposal and those areas will ultimately get built with the density the market dictates. And the way to make the market demand density there is by having a nice, walkable neighborhood along Georgia Ave.

The Fuqua dumpster fire is by contrast on the outskirts of a prime, massive urban redevelopment project. It's a single parcel of land, and in an area where it has been proven again and again that medium and high density multifamilty and commercial development is viable. It's just a lazy way to grind quick ROI out of a parcel by jamming a big box store onto it. A big box that would be strongly discouraged by zoning laws and ordinances in many/most other parts of the city. The externalities are serious an negative for this project, and it feeds off of the positive externalities of the relatively well-designed properties and neighborhoods in the vicinity. This is the type of thing zoning laws are there to prevent.

YES!-- What you said--

[shivtim]

Recent picture of Mercedez-Benz stadium with the roof open:

[arctk2014]

1020 Spring is an unbuilt mixed-use high rise project located at the corner of 10th and Spring Street in Atlanta. The landowner commissioned our firm to develop this concept to demonstrate the feasibility of a mixed-use office, residential and hotel complex utilizing the maximum development capacity of the site. That represented a total of 1.8 million square feet on a 4 acre site, with supporting infrastructure, parking, and public amenities.

An area that required sensitivity is the fact that the site is the location of a significant structure, the H.M. Patterson & Son Funeral Home and Chapel. The building is well-known in Atlanta, designed by Philip Trammell Shutze and constructed in 1928. It is listed as one of Atlanta’s most endangered historic places by the Atlanta Preservation Center. This project rightly exemplifies the worst fears of preservationist as an exploration of maximizing development value of a parcel of land, which was our charge as designers, without apparent regard for the intrinsic historic value of the structures located on it. Discussions with the client acknowledged this friction, and ideas were developed (although not depicted in this submission) that considered protecting and preserving large sections of the original Shutze design, including the chapel interiors, and incorporating them into the public, retail and dining spaces at ground level. Ultimately, we believe that the best solution would in fact acknowledge and incorporate precious historic building elements into the new design, to forge a more permanent memory of the legacy of this site.

1020 Spring Street

An image of what could be developed to maximize the property

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by shivtim

You guys, please stop feeding the troll. Ignore it and hopefully it will go away.

I am hardly a troll shitim. Just because you and I disagree on EVERYTHING doesn't mean your opinion has more significance than anyone else... including mine. So check yourself.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by testarossa50

Atlanta3000,

I'm sorry, but that's a horrible comparison. The Georgia Avenue area has numerous existing buildings already and is split into many parcels due to its historic use. This is restoring that historic use and has precedent in many of Atlanta's most beloved neighborhoods: VaHi, Edgewood Avenue, etc.

I actually don't disagree that they should be pushing for higher residential density around the edge of the existing Georgia Ave buildings, but this isn't even a construction proposal and those areas will ultimately get built with the density the market dictates. And the way to make the market demand density there is by having a nice, walkable neighborhood along Georgia Ave.

The Fuqua dumpster fire is by contrast on the outskirts of a prime, massive urban redevelopment project. It's a single parcel of land, and in an area where it has been proven again and again that medium and high density multifamilty and commercial development is viable. It's just a lazy way to grind quick ROI out of a parcel by jamming a big box store onto it. A big box that would be strongly discouraged by zoning laws and ordinances in many/most other parts of the city. The externalities are serious an negative for this project, and it feeds off of the positive externalities of the relatively well-designed properties and neighborhoods in the vicinity. This is the type of thing zoning laws are there to prevent.

I sort of agree with you the comparison isn't apples to apples and for the record I am not saying I believe Fuqua's proposal is the best use of the space. I for one don't mind the grocery store, but would prefer he went with townhouses or dense single family houses with the remainder of the land.

I grew up in Williamsburg, VA so I have an appreciation for preservation of historical buildings. I am not being condescending, but inquisitive. What exacting is the historical use of the buildings on Georgia Ave? From an outsiders perspective, this area looks a post apocalyptic wasteland.

[Street Advocate]

Originally Posted by arctk2014

1020 Spring Street

An image of what could be developed to maximize the property

I say goddamn! Love their blend of office and residential space. I know people disagree with me, but 10th street in general is awfully quiet in Midtown for what you'd anticipate. I'm looking forward to the Hanover project delivering retail, although wish there was more throughout the street all the way ti Piedmont.

[Street Advocate]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

From an outsiders perspective, this area looks a post apocalyptic wasteland.

IMO, that corridor looks exactly like the type of street level engagement we want in this city. You don't need 6 story mixed use if you have row after row of retail, office, and residential offerings. The public art is also really interesting and compliments Atlanta's arts scene. I don't see why anyone would be against preserving those existing buildings. Hell, I wish we had more development like those buildings in EAV, along North Highland, Edgewood Ave, L5P, etc! That is a fairly long stretch of street level engaging developments for Atlanta standards!

[Libertarian]

The Georgia Avenue streetscape would benefit from speedy gentrification. I guarantee that existing homeowners in the neighborhood would support the upgrades if said owners could be grandfathered-in locked property taxes or tax subsidies such as is being proposed for Vine City. Philosophically I'm opposed to tax subsidies but this may be the only alternative.

[Atlriser]

I live 5 blocks from the Georgia Avenue area pictured and walk and drive by it several times a day. Maybe 2 of the buildings as portayed could be possibly done. Otherwise those are just going to have to be torn down and rebuilt if that's what the end result is to be. I have worked in commercial construction for over 20 years and what is drawn is not possible with the existing buildings. They do not have inset store fronts as shown nor areas for patios and upstairs and balconies on any of the buildings. The 2 story restaurant and other eating places don't jive with the existing construction. That's a fantasy plan as drawn and can't happen without demoing most of the existing buildings as much as it would be nice and great for Georgia Avenue those existing structures can't be transformed at an economical price to fit what is shown. I want that renovated and transformed as much as anyone in Atlanta as it's the one area I walk/drive daily and makes me sad every time but as shown just not possible without major demo and rebuild.

Several of the buildings are structurally not sound in the least as well and are constantly being broken into and re boarded up. I doubt seriously if the 2 story buildings are structurally capable of supporting what is proposed as already stated they don't have the bones or the structural support to handle what is drawn as I've been inside them.

The paintings were done a couple years ago to 'clean up' those 2 blocks and were a nice change from graffiti and plywood constantly being torn down over the doors and windows.

[sbrptree]

Originally Posted by RATBOYKEV

I already had bought my tickets for the event and have access to a plotter. Ill show up with this "plan" but don't expect an opportunity to speak out at an event like this.

Awesome! Maybe find someone from the media (or call Maria Saporta)....she'll listen

[Ant131531]

Originally Posted by Street Advocate

I say goddamn! Love their blend of office and residential space. I know people disagree with me, but 10th street in general is awfully quiet in Midtown for what you'd anticipate. I'm looking forward to the Hanover project delivering retail, although wish there was more throughout the street all the way ti Piedmont.

I don't like it. I think the interaction with the street sucks. Retail in a enclosed plaza never works how you want it to work. The highrises are alright....nothing special. I don't get why glass office buildings never have good street interaction and retail.

[Street Advocate]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

I don't like it. I think the interaction with the street sucks. Retail in a enclosed plaza never works how you want it to work. The highrises are alright....nothing special. I don't get why glass office buildings never have good street interaction and retail.

I agree about the street level interaction and nearly included a similar observation in my original post. My reaction is more toward imagining the density of midtown stretching to this area and what the change in street activity would feel like.

[Atlanta3000]

Originally Posted by cabasse

are those renderings for the development around doraville station?

Hey Cabasse - Yep those are renderings for the Assembly project in Doraville. See the links below for more details:

http://www.tvsdesign.com/projects/project-rally/

https://www.bisnow.com/atlanta/news/office/project-rally-revealed-as-simmonsserta-65536

http://www.bizjournals.com/atlanta/news/...xplores-atlanta-expansion-new-build.html

[scania]

Originally Posted by Atlanta3000

I am hardly a troll shitim. Just because you and I disagree on EVERYTHING doesn't mean your opinion has more significance than anyone else... including mine. So check yourself.

Amen!!!

[scania]

Originally Posted by Street Advocate

I say goddamn! Love their blend of office and residential space. I know people disagree with me, but 10th street in general is awfully quiet in Midtown for what you'd anticipate. I'm looking forward to the Hanover project delivering retail, although wish there was more throughout the street all the way ti Piedmont.

I agree with everything you said 100 percent.

[testarossa50]

Originally Posted by Atlriser

I live 5 blocks from the Georgia Avenue area pictured and walk and drive by it several times a day. Maybe 2 of the buildings as portayed could be possibly done. Otherwise those are just going to have to be torn down and rebuilt if that's what the end result is to be. I have worked in commercial construction for over 20 years and what is drawn is not possible with the existing buildings. They do not have inset store fronts as shown nor areas for patios and upstairs and balconies on any of the buildings. The 2 story restaurant and other eating places don't jive with the existing construction. That's a fantasy plan as drawn and can't happen without demoing most of the existing buildings as much as it would be nice and great for Georgia Avenue those existing structures can't be transformed at an economical price to fit what is shown. I want that renovated and transformed as much as anyone in Atlanta as it's the one area I walk/drive daily and makes me sad every time but as shown just not possible without major demo and rebuild.

Several of the buildings are structurally not sound in the least as well and are constantly being broken into and re boarded up. I doubt seriously if the 2 story buildings are structurally capable of supporting what is proposed as already stated they don't have the bones or the structural support to handle what is drawn as I've been inside them.

The paintings were done a couple years ago to 'clean up' those 2 blocks and were a nice change from graffiti and plywood constantly being torn down over the doors and windows.

People need to chill about this Georgia Avenue concept. It's not a construction proposal. Yes, a bunch of abandoned storefront buildings are gonna take major demo and rebuild to become habitable. But the point stands that there are historic storefronts there, and the vision to turn the street into a retail corridor is a reasonable one. I would support significantly--dramatically, in fact--higher density in the area, but that's a concern I'll express more loudly once there's even a little bit of momentum towards actually building anything in the area.

The connection with the 17th St Kroger, which is a very real construction proposal, is non-existent.

Also, calling Atlanta3000 a troll is beyond ridiculous. He/she has contributed a whole lot to this forum and has every right to express a controversial opinion on the subject of that horrific disaster of a Kroger.

[Ant131531]

Yeah, I'm not a fan of people calling Atlanta3000 a troll either. He tends to contribute A LOT more to these threads than half of these posters. At least he posts hard to find renderings and occasionally construction update photos. Some posters here never contribute a damn thing despite living in Atlanta and being around construction all the time. Don't ever take a little time out of their day to snap some construction photos so don't call him a troll.

[shivtim]

He is a self described "shit stirrer" who consistently attacks other forumers, calling them juvenile and a "bush league debater" and post ridiculous attacks and false things like this and this without ever correcting or apologizing. I won't bother posting the things he wrote to me in private messages.

Point is, I'm not calling him a troll because I disagree with him. I disagree with all kinds of things, but every other former on here is a decent person regardless of what opinion they're expressing. Maybe troll is the wrong word. What's the word for someone who is purposely obnoxious and admits it while directly attacking other forumers? The words he spewed at AtlantaMustang in the Underground thread is exactly the type of thing that ruins this forum.

[Ant131531]

Originally Posted by shivtim

He is a self described "shit stirrer" who consistently attacks other forumers, calling them juvenile and a "bush league debater" and post ridiculous attacks and false things like this and this without ever correcting or apologizing. I won't bother posting the things he wrote to me in private messages.

Point is, I'm not calling him a troll because I disagree with him. I disagree with all kinds of things, but every other former on here is a decent person regardless of what opinion they're expressing. Maybe troll is the wrong word. What's the word for someone who is purposely obnoxious and admits it while directly attacking other forumers? The words he spewed at AtlantaMustang in the Underground thread is exactly the type of thing that ruins this forum.

If you want to disagree with his opinions, that's fine. I generally do as well. I think the word you might be looking for is contrarian. I think calling him a troll though is going way too far. A troll doesn't post new never before seen renderings all the time or update us with construction update photos. He has every right to post his own opinions just like we do.