Confederation Line (Stage 1) | In Service 1.0

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by McC

That reminds me, why is the Canadian Tire Centre in Kanata?

Off topic, but that is because most of the money to be made is in corporate sales. Sales people bringing clients to a game spend significantly more on both tickets and refreshments than the average family (notice how the family zones are corporately sponsored?). Back when the CTC was constructed, most of the corporate money was in Kanata. This has since changed, which is why Melnyk wants to move the team to LeBreton.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The other falsehood about this whole project is that local bus service will be improved. Resources will be moved to local routes we were told. That will not happen. Service on local bus routes has been deteriorating and there will be no reversal on this.

Will local service improve during the off-peak periods? No, not likely, unless the LRT can create an improvement in the number of riders on those local routes.

I believe the idea behind this claim is, when the LRT is extended to the point where the local buses intersect LRT stations as part of their normal route (or can be easily extended to intersect them), the Connexion buses will be replaced with local buses, so that during peak periods, the local buses will be running every 5-10 minutes (at least in one direction). This is a cost savings for Transpo and an "improvement" in service for the local route (though not an overall improvement in service). This is why we are seeing a push to extend the lines to Orleans, Riverside South, Kanata, and eventually Barrhaven.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Off topic, but that is because most of the money to be made is in corporate sales. Sales people bringing clients to a game spend significantly more on both tickets and refreshments than the average family (notice how the family zones are corporately sponsored?). Back when the CTC was constructed, most of the corporate money was in Kanata. This has since changed, which is why Melnyk wants to move the team to LeBreton.

Or more likely because Bruce Firestone owned a lot of land on the far side of Kanata but otherwise had no money to pay the expansion fee, build an arena, etc and hoped building an arena way out there would spur other development, etc to pay these debts. The plan did not really work out.

[White Pine]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Or more likely because Bruce Firestone owned a lot of land on the far side of Kanata but otherwise had no money to pay the expansion fee, build an arena, etc and hoped building an arena way out there would spur other development, etc to pay these debts. The plan did not really work out.

Guys, I'm pretty sure the question was a joke...

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

[B]How Transpo plans to get you ready for LRT

Stations

There will be 13 stations between Tunney’s Pasture and Blair. Transpo will get riders familiar with the station names. Some station names aren’t completely intuitive. Pimisi station will be at the Booth Street bridge on LeBreton Flats. Parliament station won’t be at Parliament, per se; it will be a couple blocks south on Queen Street. There will be bike parking, elevators, emergency telephones, heated waiting areas and security cameras in stations. There will be washrooms at Tunney’s Pasture, Bayview, Hurdman and Blair stations.

[email protected]
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/how-transpo-plans-to-get-you-ready-for-lrt

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

Nobody said solving the downtown bottleneck was enough. But improving, let alone maintaining the level of service for the majority of users is contingent on it. It's a dragon that needs to be slayed first. You can't talk about improving ridership when your main pipeline is over capacity and failing at its core. We're already overwhelmed by dealing with this one fundamental aspect that throwing multiple tangential issues would just paralyze the problem solving further.

I don't know why we keep on revisiting these reasons over and over again. Is it Groundhog Day yet?

I have already said that we are committed to this course. I accept that.

I have also agreed that the downtown bottleneck had to be resolved and the downtown tunnel is needed. I have said that for years.

You say that solving the downtown bottleneck is not enough, but when do we actually see those other real benefits that other cities achieve with their rail projects? I believe that our choices will not achieve those other real benefits.

So we spend $10B and we end up with a system that resolves the downtown problem and gets us home in about the same time. Money well spent?

My complaint is the lack of creativity in developing a plan that is more balanced and will attract new riders. Unfortunately, the cupboard is now bare and will be for the next 25 years.

Given the magnitude of spending on this plan, I believe I should have the right to criticize it especially when it becomes increasingly clear that the benefits have been oversold.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Will local service improve during the off-peak periods? No, not likely, unless the LRT can create an improvement in the number of riders on those local routes.

I believe the idea behind this claim is, when the LRT is extended to the point where the local buses intersect LRT stations as part of their normal route (or can be easily extended to intersect them), the Connexion buses will be replaced with local buses, so that during peak periods, the local buses will be running every 5-10 minutes (at least in one direction). This is a cost savings for Transpo and an "improvement" in service for the local route (though not an overall improvement in service). This is why we are seeing a push to extend the lines to Orleans, Riverside South, Kanata, and eventually Barrhaven.

I do not believe this will ever take place.

For example, in my neighbourhood, they cut service from every 15 minutes to every 30 minutes during the rationalization process while ridership was actually growing. So the end result is that they had to put on articulated buses in a residential area which is needed even at 10 pm. How do you actually encourage further ridership growth if there is no interest in delivering better service?

[rocketphish]

Construction Update
Week of April 17

Progress continues at the Lyon Station east entrance as crews begin installing masonry at the integrated entrance. Crews mobilize to begin architectural works in Parliament Station cavern. At Tremblay Station, landscaping activities begin with the initial removal of the existing guard rail on the west ring road, and chipping of the parapet.

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Progress of the Tunney's Pasture Station footings and formwork

West Stations

Tunney’s Pasture Station
Crews begin working on footings for the platform area this week, and continue forming the elevator pits and pouring slabs.

Bayview Station
Work progresses at the station and includes structural steel and parapet installation on the ancillary building, installing grade beams, pouring architectural columns and backfilling.

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Progress of slab work and structural steel installation - Pimisi Station

Pimisi Station
Station construction is ongoing with slab on grade pours, structural steel installation, slab rough-ins, pulling wires in the communications rooms and formwork for the staircase.

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Crews pour the track slab in Lyon Station cavern

Central Stations

Lyon Station cavern
Architectural work is ongoing in the cavern. Work includes installing blocks, conduits, laying out and installing tiles, and work on door frames. In addition, escalators, guard rails and panels on the platform walls are installed on the north side, and crews pour the track slab.

Lyon Station west entrance
Integrated entrance construction advances visibly. This week, grade level walls are cured and stripped, structural steel is installed on the roof, falsework occurs and backfilling takes place at the south walls. Crews drill anchors at the east vent shaft.

Lyon Station east entrance
This week, curbs and the accessibility ramp is poured and cured. Crews begin installing masonry at the retail concourse level and install elevators and escalators. At the HVAC shaft, crews cure, form and pour walls in sequence.

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Progress of arch and wall concrete final lining work - Rideau Station cavern

Parliament Station cavern
Crews mobilize to begin architectural work in the cavern this week. Ongoing work includes arch and deck concrete final lining and conduit installation.

Parliament Station west entrance
Integrated entrance construction progresses with rock removals, hoe-ramming for the HVAC shaft and rock supports.

Parliament Station east entrance
This week, work advances on the upper pit walls and concourse slab with the installation of rebar, formwork and pours in sequence. Crews also waterproof and install rebar on the escalator slab.

Rideau Station cavern
Construction of the station cavern is ongoing with arch and wall final concrete pours, as well as work on the invert.

Rideau Station west entrance
Integrated entrance excavation is ongoing for the next weeks.

Rideau Station east entrance
Crews are working on the mud slab, waterproofing, forming the elevator shaft walls on the north side, in addition to the inside walls on the south side.

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Progress of concrete work at uOttawa Station

East Portal
Crews continue constructing the ramp with work on whaler beams, drilling tiebacks, excavation on the north side, and forming and pouring walls and slabs.

uOttawa Station
Crews continue installing rebar and concrete work on the stairs, pouring platform trenches, concourse rough-ins, steel installation and electrical work.

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Progress of construction at Hurdman Station

East Stations

Lees Station
Station progress is visible: crews continue shoring for the concourse slab and begin installing masonry on the ancillary building

Hurdman Station
Crews strip the station suspended slabs, and continue heat tracing on stairs and electrical work for the secondary buildings.

Tremblay Station
This week, framing of walls and landscaping work continues, which includes the removal of the existing guard rail and chipping of the parapet. Taxi and pedestrian realignments will occur during this work. Framing of the soffit, wiring and rough-ins are ongoing.

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Progress of glazing at Cyrville Station

St-Laurent Station
Construction continues with roofing on the plenum, masonry block and conduit installation, heat tracing and pulling wires. Crews also work on the HVAC shaft at the head house.

Cyrville Station
Glazing in the platform area and for the elevators is ongoing at the station. Crews work on the storm sewer, inspect electrical systems and mobilize to install precast concrete stairs.

Blair Station
Activities are ongoing at the station, including final electrical finishes, tiles and porcelain panel installation, glazing and work on the escalator cladding.

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Ongoing train testing on eastbound track at Cyrville Station

Guideway and Trackwork

Guideway construction continues this week with concrete pours at the crossover tracks east of Tunney’s Pasture Station. Track teams install concrete ties and mobilize to begin pulling rail west of Pimisi Station to Bayview Station. In the tunnel, concrete slab work, pulling rails and installation of dowels advance west of Lyon Station. East of Parliament Station, work on starter walls is ongoing. Ballast installation takes place at Lees Station, crews pull rails on the Rideau River bridge and tamping occurs at Hurdman Station.

Train testing continues on eastbound track from Belfast Yard to Blair Station.

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Tamping is ongoing on the elevated guideway at Hurdman Station

Upcoming Construction Activities

In the coming weeks, the following construction activities are scheduled to occur:

• Hoe ramming as part of work on the western section of the guideway.
• Blasting begins at the Lyon west vent shaft.
• Ongoing overnight work at the Rideau Station west and east entrances, and at the East Portal.
• Ongoing structural steel installation at uOttawa Station requiring overnight lane restrictions.
• Manhole work on guideway west of Lees Station requiring lane restrictions.
• Final work on the pedestrian tunnel at uOttawa Station.
• Fencing installation on guideway just west of Tremblay Station.
• Hydro connection work to Hurdman Station requiring lane restriction on Riverside Drive.
• Manhole work as part of guideway activities at intersection of Riverside Drive and Tremblay Road, requiring lane restrictions.
• Systems installation along the guideway, including Overhead Catenary System poles and wires.

http://www.ligneconfederationline.ca/news/construction-update-120/

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

So we spend $10B and we end up with a system that resolves the downtown problem and gets us home in about the same time. Money well spent?

I tend to agree with you. The Confederation Line was a good solution to a specific problem. Trying to turn it into a generalized solution for all transit (mostly for political reasons) is going to cost a lot of money and not offer much benefit. I still wonder how many of these extensions will actually get approved. It is all well and good to have photo ops and environmental assessments, but when Council finds out how much taxes are going to have to go up to pay for it all they might lose some enthusiasm.

[lrt's friend]

I have to question the wisdom of building a 50 or 60 km light rail line that is imposed as 'the' transit solution for the entire city.

How can that be?

I get disturbed when they say 70% of the population will be within 5 km of light rail. This is a slogan. It has nothing to do with better transit service for most residents..

What about those last 5 km? And what about those who live within 5 km of the Trillium Line (which I do), which we are deliberately bypassing because of the fundamental weaknesses of that line yet we are being included in the 70%.

The question about everything, this whole plan, is that we are being forced to use the Confederation Line even if we live in the opposite end of the city from that it is serving. Only Ottawa would dream up such a scheme.

And then we hear about a vague plan to serve Gatineau and that also sounds like feeding passengers into the Confederation Line regardless of how inconvenient and indirect that would be.

What about the passenger experience? How many transfers is too many transfers? I say more than one is too much if you actually expect the majority of the people to tolerate the system on a regular basis.

And when we max out the Confederation Line especially between Bayview and Hurdman? We have no idea of how we are going to get people into the city from other directions. In our rush to redevelop Bayview, Lebreton and Zibi, we are not even considering protecting an alternate rail route into downtown for the future.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I do not believe this will ever take place.

For example, in my neighbourhood, they cut service from every 15 minutes to every 30 minutes during the rationalization process while ridership was actually growing. So the end result is that they had to put on articulated buses in a residential area which is needed even at 10 pm. How do you actually encourage further ridership growth if there is no interest in delivering better service?

Do you live in a neighbourhood where the express bus were merged with the local bus (I always assumed you lived in Riverside South which has no local or express buses)? I know they did that about 20 years ago in the Craig Henry neighbourhood (there may have been others, I can't remember). Initially after the merge they had the 172 run downtown as a separate route in the AM and back in the PM. Now, if you look at the schedule, it only runs to Baseline or Lincoln Fields (with some runs continuing downtown as a 91) but it still runs every 5-15 minutes during peak periods and then drops to every 30 minutes off peak.

Edit: The same local/express merge was also done with the 176 at the same time and it still runs to Mackenzie King or Lebreton during Peak periods.

This is a perfect example of what I am talking about and will happen primarily in Orleans after Stage 2. All of the Connexion routes will disappear and the local routes will pick up the slack.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I have to question the wisdom of building a 50 or 60 km light rail line that is imposed as 'the' transit solution for the entire city.

How can that be?

I get disturbed when they say 70% of the population will be within 5 km of light rail. This is a slogan. It has nothing to do with better transit service for most residents..

What about those last 5 km? And what about those who live within 5 km of the Trillium Line (which I do), which we are deliberately bypassing because of the fundamental weaknesses of that line yet we are being included in the 70%.

The question about everything, this whole plan, is that we are being forced to use the Confederation Line even if we live in the opposite end of the city from that it is serving. Only Ottawa would dream up such a scheme.

And then we hear about a vague plan to serve Gatineau and that also sounds like feeding passengers into the Confederation Line regardless of how inconvenient and indirect that would be.

What about the passenger experience? How many transfers is too many transfers? I say more than one is too much if you actually expect the majority of the people to tolerate the system on a regular basis.

And when we max out the Confederation Line especially between Bayview and Hurdman? We have no idea of how we are going to get people into the city from other directions. In our rush to redevelop Bayview, Lebreton and Zibi, we are not even considering protecting an alternate rail route into downtown for the future.

As I see it, the Confederation is the answer to the question. The Question that it answers is "How do we fix the worst problem in the city?"

As mentioned before, the worst problem has always been the Central Transitway. Something needed to be done. The LRT fixes that problem.

Connecting to Gatineau is another big problem.

The problem is that there are way too many people who think that they should be within walking distance of the LRT. That is just not going to happen.

Replacing all Transitways with LRT would go a long way to improving the overall transit in the city. After that, Replacing the busier bus routes with LRT would be the prudent thing to do.

There will be growing pains. I would expect yearly, if not biannually or even more frequent bus service changes. Having all buses terminate at an LRT station makes sense. The timing and routing will be the big challenge.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

As I see it, the Confederation is the answer to the question. The Question that it answers is "How do we fix the worst problem in the city?"

As mentioned before, the worst problem has always been the Central Transitway. Something needed to be done. The LRT fixes that problem.

I agree. The problem is we are trying to take the solution to this problem and make it solve all of the other problems, which it doesn't (or doesn't do well).

Connecting to Gatineau is another big problem.

Agreed. Given the inter-provincial nature of the problem, it will be much harder to solve politically.

Replacing all Transitways with LRT would go a long way to improving the overall transit in the city. After that, Replacing the busier bus routes with LRT would be the prudent thing to do.

Here I disagree. The southern transitway north of Bilings Bridge is not an great routing for LRT. If you are going to spend money laying more track, a better route should found (one that goes downtown). Granted we wont' have the money for this any time soon.

Having all buses terminate at an LRT station makes sense.

"All" is too strong a word. Some routes are too far from LRT to make terminating at a station reasonable (and will be for the foreseeable future). Also, some routes serve a specific purpose that doesn't align with LRT (including, but not limited to, school and shopping routes).

The timing and routing will be the big challenge.

[PHrenetic]

Good Day.
....knew it...... Joanne Chianello, April 21, CBC :

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/ott...may-7-2018-now-appears-delayed-1.4077136

and FYI...she has been tracking the LRT since many years, previously at the Citizen.
Anotherwords....why can't they just say it - a lot less grief for everybody long-term.
EnJoy!

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Do you live in a neighbourhood where the express bus were merged with the local bus (I always assumed you lived in Riverside South which has no local or express buses)? I know they did that about 20 years ago in the Craig Henry neighbourhood (there may have been others, I can't remember). Initially after the merge they had the 172 run downtown as a separate route in the AM and back in the PM. Now, if you look at the schedule, it only runs to Baseline or Lincoln Fields (with some runs continuing downtown as a 91) but it still runs every 5-15 minutes during peak periods and then drops to every 30 minutes off peak.

Edit: The same local/express merge was also done with the 176 at the same time and it still runs to Mackenzie King or Lebreton during Peak periods.

This is a perfect example of what I am talking about and will happen primarily in Orleans after Stage 2. All of the Connexion routes will disappear and the local routes will pick up the slack.

No, I don't live in Riverside South. As I said, I live within 5 km of the existing Trillium Line. This will give you a reasonable idea of what part of the city that I live, which is inside the Greenbelt. In my neighbourhood, they have not merged the local route with the connexion route. I believe that is not the plan although I am expecting route changes. All they have been doing for the last 5 years or so is cutting service over and over again and substituting slower and bigger buses to compensate. The next route changes will also likely deliver a service cut. It is like they are shuffling the deck chairs on the sinking Titanic. They are trying to figure out how to move more people without improving service. The experience especially in the afternoon is noticeably longer waits, often 15 minutes then a pair of buses show up in about a minute. Two different routes and poor coordination.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

I get disturbed when they say 70% of the population will be within 5 km of light rail. This is a slogan. It has nothing to do with better transit service for most residents..

In fact it has less than zero, because:

What about those last 5 km? And what about those who live within 5 km of the Trillium Line (which I do), which we are deliberately bypassing because of the fundamental weaknesses of that line yet we are being included in the 70%.

Of this.

And because if you start thinking that the "5 km" benchmark is a useful measure for anything, you can meet that benchmark with some impressively crappy additions or changes to your transit system, which, like you allude to, don't solve the Last (or First) Mile (Last (or First) Five KM) problems.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

The problem is that there are way too many people who think that they should be within walking distance of the LRT. That is just not going to happen.

The real problem is that Ottawa is sticking with the ROW of Least Resistance east of U of O, bringing LRT to station locations which have crappy urban fabric around them and very limited opportunities to bring the city to the transit. (The problem is not quite as bad on the existing portion of the LRT to the west, or for most of the Phase II alignment at least as far as about Lincoln Fields).

At some point the city is going to have to pick a politically and economically costly poison: you either start bringing the city to the transit, supposing that means giving up some stupid pointless "green" spaces like at Lincoln Fields, or you start bringing transit to the city, supposing that means some more tunnels and the odd expropriation. But the fundamental fabric of the city and of its transit system is not going to change if we keep running the trunk of that system along highway corridors and through otherwise empty "park" aligments.

Having all buses terminate at an LRT station makes sense.

Having all buses CONNECT to an LRT station makes sense.

Having all buses TERMINATE at one, as some kind of doctrine, does not.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I agree. The problem is we are trying to take the solution to this problem and make it solve all of the other problems, which it doesn't (or doesn't do well).

Agreed. Given the inter-provincial nature of the problem, it will be much harder to solve politically.

Here I disagree. The southern transitway north of Bilings Bridge is not an great routing for LRT. If you are going to spend money laying more track, a better route should found (one that goes downtown). Granted we wont' have the money for this any time soon.

"All" is too strong a word. Some routes are too far from LRT to make terminating at a station reasonable (and will be for the foreseeable future). Also, some routes serve a specific purpose that doesn't align with LRT (including, but not limited to, school and shopping routes).

The timing and routing will be the big challenge.

You cannot do one line that will solve all the problems, no matter how you route it.

I merely suggest simply replacing existing transitways with LRT since the traffic pattern already exist. It would free up more buses, and it should make for a faster ride as then you just have local buses going to an LRT station, not a local bus, then an express bus, then the LRT.

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

T

Having all buses CONNECT to an LRT station makes sense.

Having all buses TERMINATE at one, as some kind of doctrine, does not.

Connect is the better word.

(the rest of that was just mind numbing rambling jibberish.)

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I merely suggest simply replacing existing transitways with LRT since the traffic pattern already exist. It would free up more buses, and it should make for a faster ride as then you just have local buses going to an LRT station, not a local bus, then an express bus, then the LRT.

It seems like a lot of money to spend to save one transfer. The ride itself is unlikely to be any faster (both have comparable maximum speeds) and may be a little slower (because LRT vehicles have to make every stop). Also, because the LRT capacities are so much higher, the service will likely to be less frequent than the bus, so the overall journey time will probably be longer.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by acottawa

It seems like a lot of money to spend to save one transfer. The ride itself is unlikely to be any faster (both have comparable maximum speeds) and may be a little slower (because LRT vehicles have to make every stop). Also, because the LRT capacities are so much higher, the service will likely to be less frequent than the bus, so the overall journey time will probably be longer.

So, when Toronto built it's subways, or Montreal built it's Metro, or Calgary Built it's C-Train, or Edmonton built it's LRT or Vancouver built it's Skytrain, there was no time savings?

Seriously? You are going to argue that because it stops at every stop that it will be slower?

Well, I guess we should have stuck with the buses.