Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2

[esquire]

Originally Posted by SaskScraper

Football is where I've been to the most stadiums though but I'm sure these all pale in comparison to what Toronto could offer especially when comparing to the likes of Darrell K Royal-Texas Memorial Stadium with a capacity crowd.

Yes, Toronto football fans are truly the greatest. They just never seem to actually, you know, attend football games whether they are CFL, NFL, AFL , U Sports or NCAA.

[Horus]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I mean, right now the Raptors are playing... Milwaukee.

Do any of you guys even know anyone from Milwaukee?

Fonzie?

[thoughtsandrobots]

American sports culture trumps Canadian sports culture as a whole. Far more diverse and broad, passionate. I go to at least one Gators game each season in Gainesville. I get chills. I am also lucky enough to be able to go behind the scenes at Great American Ballpark and you talk to people who live the Reds far more than most Canadians would ever live a local team. Like sleep on pillows and eat cereal out of Votto bowls type of living.

Middle of the day in Cincinnati, a Tuesday, will see people decked fully out in Buckeyes or Wildcats or Reds hats and pins and sweaters and sneakers. Love it. And you can talk to them about football, basketball, baseball, college or pro, national soccer team. Etc.

That said, it is less concentrated, a guy in Phoenix could love the Baltimore Stallions more than his Cardinals.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by thoughtsandrobots

The NFL will be coming to Toronto.

Why? Well, when it happens, it will complete an ascent of the city into bona fide sports mecca, and the media oligarchs stand to profit heavily from this. Toronto is not some middling outpost anymore. It has ambitions. The 6ix. The powerful here, though often lacking vision, have begun to embrace new visions. Younger visions.

An NFL team along with the existing MLB and NBA teams gives Toronto presence in the big three American pro sports leagues. The NHL team, the MLS team, and there is no reason the CFL team (different market) can't remain, along with some of the other interesting developments happening (Wolfpack, BioSteel game, etc) make content, content, content.

Content + a city embracing pro sports like never before is serious value. So yes, the NFL will profit too.

Serious sports city. Aren't the roots of gridiron football deeply sewn in Toronto? The first recorded baseball game played not far from it's metropolis? I know the first NBA game was played in Toronto at Maple Leaf Gardens between the Huskies and New York Knickerbockers and that Toronto has become a hot bed of talent the likes of which is only beginning to bear fruit. Before TFC, the MLS was a hokie soccer league. TFC and its supporter culture is responsible for MLS 2.0 and all the clubs that have come in like gangbusters after. The commissioner says as much. World Cup 2026? What about the Wolfpack? The first trans-Atlantic pro sports franchise which is already being heavily studied by the NFL. Was it last Saturday we had a Jays game, TFC game, Leafs playoff game and Raptors game all on the same day and each was celebrated. This after the BioSteel game which is becoming big. There is the Athlete Institute (Maker, Murray) and MLS talent (Larin best striker in MLS?) and dang...Toronto is not Saskatchewan. It's a multi-sport mecca on the precipice. The NFL is inevitable.

I envision an October with NFL games, MLB playoff games, NBA and NHL seasons starting, MLS playoffs, CFL playoffs, and much, much more. It's coming!

Damn, are you my spawn?? lol. The last time I saw debate in these threads like this, it was me in your shoes, keep up the good fight against the great mass of unwashed barbarians! . CFL fans from the western prairies outnumber Toronto people 10 to 1 in this thread.

If it makes you feel any better, my assertions about TFC were proven correct and their arrogant assertions about the Argos were proven embarassingly false and empty. It's all due to petty jealousy and the old crab bucket mentality. They're just very attached to the CFL and are insecurely attacking any narrative that they feel may lead to its downfall (as they see an NFL team in Toronto as a massive threat to its very existence). The fact that they're attacking your comments so assiduously suggests they think the possibility longterm is very real as is the threat.

[thoughtsandrobots]

Have I claimed Toronto sports fans are the best? Quote me.

I said Toronto would be a sports mecca with the NFL. I cited measurable metrics in attendance (among top of their leagues). I cited social media followers (among top of their leagues). And I cited things like atmospherics and Jurassic Park which can not really be put into statistics only seen or applauded by notable figures. I cited those figures. I also cited diversity of sports.

I never said Toronto sports fans were the best. I never said Toronto sports fans were better than anyone else. I never said Toronto is better than you. I did say Toronto was a greater sports city than Minneapolis or Phoenix.

I made arguments. I think they are good.

Trying to make me look silly or resorting to misquotes doesn't dispute my facts.

[Berklon]

Originally Posted by esquire

The delicious irony, of course, being that had Toronto supported its CFL football team, it probably would have had a NFL team by now.

No. The CFL has absolutely nothing to do with the NFL.

How did the Las Vegas Posse do when they were in the CFL? Horribly.

Oh look, Las Vegas is getting an NFL team. I guess it's horrible support for a CFL team didn't effect it getting an NFL team.

The only reason why people here are saying that Toronto needs to support the Argos in order to get an NFL team is to trick people in supporting the CFL. That's the only reason. Because otherwise, there's little reason for people of the GTA to care about the CFL.

Sorry - the NFL knows Toronto is a major market and is a potential landing spot for a team in the future. The NFL needs to grow the game beyond its borders and Canada is a place they can grow. Rogers paying the huge amount of NHL rights has caught the attention of the NFL.

It all comes down to someone who's willing to bring a team to Toronto and the money needed to build a stadium. Get that in place, and the NFL will play ball.

Toronto's support of their own NFL team is a no-brainer. They'll instantly be the 2nd biggest team in Toronto.

[thoughtsandrobots]

OK. I'll bite.

Toronto FC fans are the best.

C'mon youuuu Reeeeddds!

OK I know that is completely lost through Prairie Vision.

[mistercorporate]

Originally Posted by Berklon

No. The CFL has absolutely nothing to do with the NFL.

How did the Las Vegas Posse do when they were in the CFL? Horribly.

Oh look, Las Vegas is getting an NFL team. I guess it's horrible support for a CFL team didn't effect it getting an NFL team.

The only reason why people here are saying that Toronto needs to support the Argos in order to get an NFL team is to trick people in supporting the CFL. That's the only reason. Because otherwise, there's little reason for people of the GTA to care about the CFL.

Sorry - the NFL knows Toronto is a major market and is a potential landing spot for a team in the future. The NFL needs to grow the game beyond its borders and Canada is a place they can grow. Rogers paying the huge amount of NHL rights has caught the attention of the NFL.

It all comes down to someone who's willing to bring a team to Toronto and the money needed to build a stadium. Get that in place, and the NFL will play ball.

Toronto's support of their own NFL team is a no-brainer. They'll instantly be the 2nd biggest team in Toronto.

Damnnn....truth bomb!

[esquire]

Originally Posted by Berklon

No. The CFL has absolutely nothing to do with the NFL.

How did the Las Vegas Posse do when they were in the CFL? Horribly.

Oh look, Las Vegas is getting an NFL team. I guess it's horrible support for a CFL team didn't effect it getting an NFL team.

The only reason why people here are saying that Toronto needs to support the Argos in order to get an NFL team is to trick people in supporting the CFL. That's the only reason. Because otherwise, there's little reason for people of the GTA to care about the CFL.

Sorry - the NFL knows Toronto is a major market and is a potential landing spot for a team in the future. The NFL needs to grow the game beyond its borders and Canada is a place they can grow. Rogers paying the huge amount of NHL rights has caught the attention of the NFL.

It all comes down to someone who's willing to bring a team to Toronto and the money needed to build a stadium. Get that in place, and the NFL will play ball.

Toronto's support of their own NFL team is a no-brainer. They'll instantly be the 2nd biggest team in Toronto.

How many decades have we been hearing this now? Probably on the 4th by now.

The reality is that the NFL has so far outgrown the CFL that a NFL team in Toronto is not the existential threat to the CFL that it once was... in all likelihood the Argos would keep chugging along, even if they had to be propped up by the rest of the league. But to my mind, demonstrating an interest in football by cheering for some kind, any kind of team playing locally, even the Bills in Toronto series, would strike most people a better way to make a case for a NFL team. But what do I know... this ignoring football to attract the NFL thing could work out any minute now.

Speaking from my own experience as a Winnipegger... if Winnipeg had simply let the AHL Manitoba Moose fade into oblivion, the Jets never would have come back in 2011.

[cjones2451]

Isn't this a stadium and arena forum.....pics anyone?

Halifax or Quebec City stadium progress?
McMahon or Saddledome replacement?

We are WAY off the topic here

[WhipperSnapper]

I doubt both leagues could coexist in Toronto. I don't see Toronto as a big, game loving football market.

[Hackslack]

Originally Posted by mistercorporate

Damnnn....truth bomb!

Lol so true that it hasn't happened. You'd think that if it was true they'd have the 1.5 billion dollar stadium in place already, and the 2 billion dollar expansion fee (add a couple extra hundred million Canadian , no big deal) deposited already. Truth is none of that is in place. They have a lego 30k stadium. Truth is all the NFL games in Toronto were so severely un supported, no matter whatever the lame ass excuse is... look at Montreal and the Jays playing exhibition games in a sold out Olympic stadium. That proves to me the city of Montreal can support a baseball team. When Toronto get pisspoor support for regular season NFL games that shouts loud and clear they suck at supporting the NFL.... truth.

Again... NFL is not a gate driven league. The tv market has already been tapped in to in Canada...

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by HomeInMyShoes

I agree with Dalreg's sentiment. Canada is way behind the world with respect to soccer-ready stadiums. Seriouisly we are.

Soccer isn't the number one sport in this country so this point isn't really surprising. Given the fact that Canada also has a modest population spread over a giant area and it's not surprising that we don't a plethora of large-scale stadiums to host with. A country like Poland has a similar population to Canada but is only roughly a third of the size of Ontario, as an example. Having a substantially large population within a few hours of a stadium is difficult for a country like Canada but is pretty common for a lot of countries that outrank us in our imaginary stadium rankings.

[Dalreg]

OMG.

Not the Toronto is the center of the universe so we demand an NFL team argument again!!!!!

[thoughtsandrobots]

Originally Posted by Hackslack

Again... NFL is not a gate driven league. The tv market has already been tapped in to in Canada...

Incorrect. The television market has been tapped in the United States. Adding teams to yesterday's cities won't make any difference. Adding a team in Toronto will not destroy the audience who tunes in each week either. American sports fans are sophisticated enough through the Blue Jays and Raptors (that's MLB baseball and NBA basketball to you Prairie folk) to accept Toronto as just another franchise. Besides, they have betting money at stake.

So TV has no impact here. The NFL could lose 4 franchises completely and the next tv contract will trump the current one. Why? Live Sports is the last kind of appointment viewing left. Toronto is far more important than you let on if a franchise here destroys that.

It actually enhances it.

The future value of sports teams is their global brand. Toronto is a global city now. Streaming live sports to a global audience is far more important than putting a team in St. Louis. Selling streaming rights in different territories will move a sports league beyond the ceiling. Manchester United is a global brand. Powerful. Fans in every nook of this earth. West Bromwich Albion? Not so much. The NFL would rather sell Toronto than Salt Lake City. Fact.

[thoughtsandrobots]

Originally Posted by Dalreg

OMG.

Not the Toronto is the center of the universe so we demand an NFL team argument again!!!!!

Actually, no one from Toronto has said Toronto is the centre of the universe and the NFL discussion was instigated by a good old local Saskatchewan boy who made disappearing remarks about this city and the NFL, etc.

Seriously, Toronto was brought into this but we would rather be fighting with NYC than Moose Jaw or wherever.

[J.OT13]

Edmonton, could you confirm?

There are ample toilets, but you can’t use them: Why it’s so hard to pee at an Edmonton Oilers game

Tristin Hopper | April 19, 2017 5:08 PM ET

As the Edmonton Oilers enjoy their first playoff run in 11 years, fans have started to notice something odd about their new downtown arena: There are few places to pee.

With lineups for washrooms lasting the entirety of an intermission, desperate men have been seen taking aim at sinks. Meanwhile, the alleys and doorways of downtown Edmonton have begun to take on a distinctive playoff smell.

So what gives? Why can’t attendees at one of the NHL’s most expensive venues relieve themselves? As one fan complained on Twitter, “for (the) price I pay for season tickets, I shouldn’t have to miss play to pee.”

The National Post contacted a cross-section of Oilers fans to find out why thousands of them seem to be watching the playoff run while desperately trying not to wet themselves.

It’s mostly a male problem
Women are reporting that playoff Rogers Place is an alternate universe in which males — and not females — are the ones facing soul-crushing washroom lineups. “I could pee and grab beer and my (boyfriend) was still in line,” reported one fan on Twitter. Although there are no statistics to back this up, a popular theory is that this is due to the changing fan demographics of the playoff season. The regular season had a more diverse mix of women and children. But now, as ticket prices spike, fans report that Rogers Place seats are increasingly being occupied by big male beer-drinkers. “Throw in more alcohol than a normal game, fans that are less reluctant to leave their seat during the period, and I think you’ve got a perfect storm for ridiculously long bathroom lines,” said Ryan Batty, a writer for the Oilers blog Copper & Blue. (Batty has taken to relieving himself by dashing out during TV timeouts).

There are washrooms, but you can’t use them
Oilers Entertainment Group has stated that Rogers Place has a total of 485 toilets, much more than the 172 required by local building codes. But this number isn’t entirely representative of the on-the-ground toilet situation. Rogers Place is a highly segregated arena, with large premium areas roped off from regular ticket holders. These areas are an important cash cow for the team, but it also means that the average ticket holder can access only 322 toilets — a drop from the 380 or so available at Rexall Place. In the arena’s extremely pricey exclusive areas, meanwhile, washroom lineups are virtually unknown. “Pretty much exclusive access. No lineups. Private washrooms for a few hundred people,” reported one veteran of the premium levels. “I stroll directly to a urinal in the suites and loge but wait forever when I sit with the ‘steerage’ up top,” reported another. According to Oilers spokesman Tim Shipton, however, those 322 toilets still exceed the “level-by-level service targets” found at other recently constructed NHL venues.

It’s a “flow” problem
The favoured explanation by the Oilers Entertainment Group appears to be that the backup is a problem of organization. At the Oilers’ old venue, every urinal got its own queue. But now, with different washroom layouts, lineups have been consolidated into a single queue snaking out the front door. “This gives the perception of longer lineups,” said Shipton. According to fans, it’s also woefully inefficient. With single-file queues, dozens of men are dependent on the “weak link” of a bleary-eyed fan who may fail to notice an available stall or urinal. And as anyone who has endured the self-checkout lineup at a Superstore can attest, it is indeed a monstrous thing when the public is independently trusted with moving a queue along. As one fan bluntly told Postmedia in an email, “the issue with the men’s washrooms in Rogers Place is that other men are too dumb to figure it out.”

Ironically, lineups were one of the reasons cited for getting a new arena in the first place
Yes, every major sporting event has lineups, but Oilers fans are more entitled to complain than most. Way back in 2007, Oilers president Patrick LaForge was pointing to “human dams” of washroom and concession lineups in order to illustrate how the team had outgrown its old venue. “The crush space in the food and beverage area is literally crush,” he said at the time. A decade later, city hall has fronted $600 million for a new venue, ticket prices have surged as much as 60 per cent — and the place is still beset with lineups.

It’s only going to get worse
Last week, the Oilers announced the launch of “concourse passes” — $80 tickets that allow fans to stand in the concourse of Rogers Place and watch the game on TV screens. This is great for Edmontonians who want the privilege of drinking from plastic cups in the vicinity of game noise, but bad news for ticket-holders desperate to preserve scarce washroom space. “I guess I’ll have to wear a diaper,” was the response of one of the less irate fans.

All is not lost
Edmonton is a town swimming in engineers, and as they nurse their distended bladders in endless Rogers Place washroom lineups, they have had ample time to consider a fix to the Oilers’ pee problem. The good news is that on the concourse levels, there are large empty walls that could easily be retooled with extra urinals in time for the 2017/2018 season. Meanwhile, the Oilers say they are trying to work out the math on the “flow” problem stated above. “We are instituting some changes in our washroom venue processes to speed up queuing and the flow-through time for fans using the facilities,” said Shipton. And there’s always the nuclear option: baseball field-style pee troughs. However, even Northlands Coliseum at the height of the 1980s Oilers Dynasty did not answer the siren song of mass-urinals.

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/why-its-so-hard-to-pee-at-an-edmonton-oilers-game

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by thoughtsandrobots

Actually, no one from Toronto has said Toronto is the centre of the universe and the NFL discussion was instigated by a good old local Saskatchewan boy who made disappearing remarks about this city and the NFL, etc.

Seriously, Toronto was brought into this but we would rather be fighting with NYC than Moose Jaw or wherever.

I really hope Toronto gets an NFL team. Then at least this arguing would end.


Not holding my breath though.

[esquire]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

I really hope Toronto gets an NFL team. Then at least this arguing would end.


Not holding my breath though.

I've been a member of this forum since 2001 and I've been hearing about how a NFL team is just around the corner for Toronto ever since. I heard it when the dollar was low, when it was high, and now when it's low again.

Sorry Toronto, no NFL for you... you'll just have to get used to having your football asses keep getting handed to you by a bunch of guys from places like Winnipeg

[esquire]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Edmonton, could you confirm?



http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/why-its-so-hard-to-pee-at-an-edmonton-oilers-game

I don't know how you could ever have enough washrooms to meet the demand of a large sports venue during an intermission...lines are inevitable. That said, I'm sure management can always rejig things to squeeze in more urinals. When the MTS Centre opened, there were absurdly generous amounts of space in the mens' rooms, but after a couple of years they just added more urinals instead.

They may not be state of the art, but I have to say that the old trough-style urinals at the old Winnipeg Arena were pretty good at moving people in and out efficiently.