Stadiums and Arenas of Canada part 2 - Page 451

wave46 · #**9001** Posted **Apr 17, 2017, 3:12 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Embarrassing, maybe. Shows how Canadian Football/Soccer stadiums are pretty mundane. Certainly wouldn't say 8th best for TD Place is generous. I think it could hold the #5 spot, solid.

Outside of when the Argos played at Skydome, BC Place is the only 'non-mundane' stadium that is regularly used. Maybe Commonwealth Stadium in Edmonton. Olympic Stadium in Montreal isn't 'mundane' either, but for a whole host of other reasons.

The CFL/MLS doesn't justify the colossal stadiums that are found elsewhere in the world. It was sad to see an Argos game in the cavernous (and mostly empty) Skydome.

To paraphrase Bill Davis: "Mundane works", at least for Canada.

Nicko999 · #**9002** Posted **Apr 17, 2017, 6:38 AM**

So apparently Saputo Stadium got 3M worth of upgrades this winter.

• Video Link

SaskScraper · #**9003** Posted **Apr 17, 2017, 2:58 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by FFX-ME

The thing is, why would you build a bunch of stadiums that will only be used for a few games. Those other countries have big soccer stadiums since soccer is a popular spectator sport there. It is not here. Here it's hockey country so we build arenas. And my God do we have a crap ton of arenas per capita. The only market we have for actual stadiums is the CFL, which is more of a 30k-range stadium department.

Why do people think Canada has more Hockey/Basketball/multi-use etc arenas than other parts of the world?
California (same population as Canada) isn't even a hockey crazed area but has over ~18 multi-use arenas over 10,000 seats.. Canada doesn't even have that many 10,000 seat arenas (14 maybe?)..
there's only one single arena in Atlantic Canada with ~10,000 seats for example.

http://www.worldstadiums.com/north_america/countries/united_states/california.shtml

I thought CFL stadium size has dropped over the years..
all the CFL stadiums in Eastern Canada have dropped in size anyway, average CFL stadium in the East is ~26,000. Western Canada averaged all together to around 43,000 has stayed about the same though.

esquire · #**9004** Posted **Apr 17, 2017, 3:16 PM**

^ Going out on a bit of a limb here, but I think the difference between California and Canada is that the California arenas meet the demand that exists for both basketball and hockey. Canadian arenas are mainly for hockey... I'm not aware of any Canadian basketball team other than the Raptors that draws significant crowds (say, 5,000+) on a regular basis. That said, it looks like the numbers for California and Canada aren't really that far apart.

As for the CFL, no question stadium size has declined on average. However, that seems broadly in line with other pro sports leagues in North America... football and baseball stadiums, for the most part, have plateaued. We don't really see new 55,000 seat baseball stadiums going up any more. NHL and NBA venues aren't really shrinking... 18-20K has been common for at least 20 years now... but they aren't getting any bigger either.

SaskScraper · #**9005** Posted **Apr 17, 2017, 3:26 PM**

^ true,
again..Canada doesn't have a particularly high per capita arenas just because we have hockey..

Acajack · #**9006** Posted **Apr 17, 2017, 3:28 PM**

I also don't think we do that fantastically on the arena front. If I look at countries like Germany and France they have lots of 10,000+ arenas. Australia has quite a few as well.

wave46 · #**9007** Posted **Apr 17, 2017, 3:38 PM**

I'm not sure why there's such an emphasis on being 'the best' in some obscure metric here. We could build a bunch of arenas that go massively underused and then we'd have the #1 spot on arenas per capita or some other weird list.

I don't see the demand there though. We have decent facilities for the number of professional teams/events we host in this country and I don't really see any region that is terribly under served, given our population distribution - aside from maybe a second NHL team in the Toronto area - but that's beating a dead horse.

Acajack · #**9008** Posted **Apr 17, 2017, 3:41 PM**

Canada in general is actually very under-served in terms of pro sports.

We are *ok* in terms of arenas and rather sucky in terms of football stadiums.

wave46 · #**9009** Posted **Apr 17, 2017, 3:46 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Canada in general is actually very under-served in terms of pro sports.

We are *ok* in terms of arenas and rather sucky in terms of football stadiums.

I think how well we are served in terms of pro sports accurately reflects the demand in this country (notable exception: the NHL).

The Expos were drawing less than 10,000 fans per game at the end and the Grizzlies weren't doing much better. The Bills-Toronto series was cancelled because they couldn't fill the Skydome.

Acajack · #**9010** Posted **Apr 17, 2017, 3:50 PM**

Admittedly a lot of the pro sports "demand" in Canada is actually people simply watching televised games of teams (American or Canadian) playing in American leagues thousands of km away... Never attending anything in person or having a local affinity. Which is what would make more venues necessary.

So I guess that makes you right. In a way.

TorontoDrew · #**9011** Posted **Apr 17, 2017, 4:52 PM**

A video of the Jays new spring training stadium in Florida. Roughly 107,615,000 CDN to build.

http://video.tampabay.com?ndn.trackingGr...ction=tampabaytimes&ndn.videoId=31440710

FFX-ME · #**9012** Posted **Apr 17, 2017, 5:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by TorontoDrew

A video of the Jays new spring training stadium in Florida. Roughly 107,615,000 CDN to build.

http://video.tampabay.com?ndn.trackingGr...ction=tampabaytimes&ndn.videoId=31440710

This links to an article about korean BBQ

MonctonRad · #**9013** Posted **Apr 17, 2017, 5:25 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicko999

So apparently Saputo Stadium got 3M worth of upgrades this winter.

• Video Link

Seeing this video has given me some insight into how an inexpensive $3-4M upgrade to the 10,000 seat Moncton Stadium would be enough if we are successful in attracting a Canadian Premier League team to Moncton. We could add concessions and washrooms under the eastern bleacher section to the stadium for that amount and accomplish much the same thing........

EpicPonyTime · #**9014** Posted **Apr 17, 2017, 9:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by FFX-ME

This links to an article about korean BBQ

Well shit, no wonder they're 2-9.

WhipperSnapper · #**9015** Posted **Apr 17, 2017, 10:35 PM**

$108 million for a spring training ballpark?!?

SaskScraper · #**9016** Posted **Apr 18, 2017, 3:07 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acajack

Admittedly a lot of the pro sports "demand" in Canada is actually people simply watching televised games of teams (American or Canadian) playing in American leagues thousands of km away... Never attending anything in person or having a local affinity. Which is what would make more venues necessary.

So I guess that makes you right. In a way.

Demand definitely defines what pro teams and their stadiums exist in certain regions.
The Prairies have like twelve pro sports teams which adds up to 4 NHL sized arenas, 4 CFL stadiums & a couple pro baseball/soccer stadiums in use. Golden Horseshoe in Ontario has about the same population as The Prairies but has only half the pro sports teams as The Prairies. 2 NHL sized arenas, 2 CFL smaller sized stadiums & 1 baseball stadium in Toronto/Hamilton area.

wave46 · #**9017** Posted **Apr 18, 2017, 3:21 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaskScraper

Demand definitely defines what pro teams and their stadiums exist in certain regions.
The Prairies have like twelve pro sports teams which adds up to 4 NHL sized arenas, 4 CFL stadiums & a couple pro baseball/soccer stadiums in use. Golden Horseshoe in Ontario has about the same population as The Prairies but has only half the pro sports teams as The Prairies. 2 NHL sized arenas, 2 CFL smaller sized stadiums & 1 baseball stadium in Toronto/Hamilton area.

The Prairies are spread out over a larger area than the Golden Horseshoe, so dealing with overlapping franchises is not an issue. I'm very sure that this area could easily accommodate a second NHL team (or even a third, perhaps).

Where are you getting 12 from for the Prairies? I count 7 - 3 NHL teams and 4 CFL teams. Are you counting the NLL/MLS? If Buffalo is included in the Golden Horsehoe, there are 7 teams in the market - 2 NHL teams, 1 MLB team, 1 NBA team, 1 NFL team and 2 CFL teams.

SaskScraper · #**9018** Posted **Apr 18, 2017, 3:27 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by wave46

The Prairies are spread out over a larger area than the Golden Horseshoe, so dealing with overlapping franchises is not an issue. I'm very sure that this area could easily accommodate a second NHL team (or even a third, perhaps).

Where are you getting 12 from for the Prairies? I count 7 - 3 NHL teams and 4 CFL teams. Are you counting the NLL/MLS? If Buffalo is included in the Golden Horsehoe, there are 7 teams in the market - 2 NHL teams, 1 MLB team, 1 NBA team, 1 NFL team and 2 CFL teams.

If you are counting America as part of Canada then maybe Minneapolis can be counted as part of The Prairies? that would make 16 pro teams in The Prairies

wave46 · #**9019** Posted **Apr 18, 2017, 3:30 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaskScraper

If you are counting America as part of Canada then maybe Minneapolis can be counted as part of The Prairies?

Buffalo's 150km from Toronto.

Minneapolis is 700 km from Winnipeg.

SaskScraper · #**9020** Posted **Apr 18, 2017, 3:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by wave46

Buffalo's 150km from Toronto.

Minneapolis is 700 km from Winnipeg.

I thought you were trying to explain how The Prairies are more spread out, where do you draw the line then, America as part of Canada is ok if adding it into Ontario, but not if including America in The Prairies?
Minneapolis to Winnipeg is 600km fyi
Edmonton to Winnipeg is 1200km