Huntsville updates

[Tourian]

Originally Posted by Colin Giersberg

Don't forget the I-59 / I-20 rebuild in Birmingham.

What about it? What road in Huntsville is more important than rebuilding two bridges that feed the busiest interstate interchange in the state?

[DP1]

Stars and Strikes broke ground on what will be its first location in Alabama. The 54,000 sq ft facility will be located at 930 Old Monrovia Road NW.

Looks like Laser Tag is also in the approved plans.

More on this here:

http://www.starsandstrikes.com/huntsville/

[RCSHSV]

Originally Posted by DP1

Stars and Strikes broke ground on what will be its first location in Alabama. The 54,000 sq ft facility will be located at 930 Old Monrovia Road NW.

Looks like Laser Tag is also in the approved plans.

More on this here:

http://www.starsandstrikes.com/huntsville/

This will be a Huntsville Game Changer when it comes to fun things for the Family. It's basically like Dave and Busters (same games) with Laser Tag, Bumber cars and Escape Rooms. This will make Hsv a destination city along with Top Golf.

[stallty]

Originally Posted by Tourian

What about it? What road in Huntsville is more important than rebuilding two bridges that feed the busiest interstate interchange in the state?

No one is saying its not needed or important, what I am saying is there has to be some equity between the amount spent in Huntsville relative to other areas.

When the state decided to allocate $450 million to Birmingham projects and just $300,000 to Huntsville in the same time period it becomes clear theres a problem. I am all for Birmingham getting their fair share, and as the largest metro they deserve the lion's share, but Huntsville also deserves its share. The only way Huntsville was able to pull any money was by matching dollar for dollar. If theres no money for critical projects in Huntsville then I don't see how we justify 450 million for this bridge replacement and 5 billion for the northern Beltline

To get to your direct point widening 565 and redesigning the research park blvd/565/gate 9 interchange is just as important. Because this area accounted for 60%+ of the job growth and 35% of the population growth in the entire state the past 10 years.

[Tourian]

Originally Posted by stallty

No one is saying its not needed or important, what I am saying is there has to be some equity between the amount spent in Huntsville relative to other areas.

When the state decided to allocate $450 million to Birmingham projects and just $300,000 to Huntsville in the same time period it becomes clear theres a problem. I am all for Birmingham getting their fair share, and as the largest metro they deserve the lion's share, but Huntsville also deserves its share. The only way Huntsville was able to pull any money was by matching dollar for dollar. If theres no money for critical projects in Huntsville then I don't see how we justify 450 million for this bridge replacement and 5 billion for the northern Beltline

To get to your direct point widening 565 and redesigning the research park blvd/565/gate 9 interchange is just as important. Because this area accounted for 60%+ of the job growth and 35% of the population growth in the entire state the past 10 years.

Not that I am disputing the bold, or even believe it...but it all comes down to raw numbers of vehicles that have to be pushed through there. That's it. Birmingham pushes more cars and trucks through its interstates. Huntsville, not as much. Doesn't matter about job growth or anything else, because plenty of out of state travelers use the roads as well. So whoever has to deal with the most vehicles gets the most attention from ALDOT and the biggest budget. That how it is and how it should be.

As far as the NB goes, it can be debated until the cows come home, so I will leave that alone because nothing I will say will convince you. All I can say factually and undeniably is that a lot of big money players and both senators (at the time) want it done, so it is happening, (slowly).

[stallty]

Originally Posted by Tourian

Not that I am disputing the bold, or even believe it...but it all comes down to raw numbers of vehicles that have to be pushed through there. That's it. Birmingham pushes more cars and trucks through its interstates. Huntsville, not as much. Doesn't matter about job growth or anything else, because plenty of out of state travelers use the roads as well. So whoever has to deal with the most vehicles gets the most attention from ALDOT and the biggest budget. That how it is and how it should be.

As far as the NB goes, it can be debated until the cows come home, so I will leave that alone because nothing I will say will convince you. All I can say factually and undeniably is that a lot of big money players and both senators (at the time) want it done, so it is happening, (slowly).

Believe what you want..at the end of the day raw numbers cannot justify a $450MM to $300K split.

[Tourian]

Originally Posted by stallty

Believe what you want..at the end of the day raw numbers cannot justify a $450MM to $300K split.

Yes it does. What a ludicrous statement. Numbers are what it is all about. Those bridges are long past their service life and are over capacity and carry twice what they were designed for which was 80k cars 40 years ago. It has to be done now before they completely fail. When they are finished in a few years they can redo the budget and allocate more money for what ever little off ramp you think is so important.

But first things first.

[stallty]

Originally Posted by Tourian

Yes it does. What a ludicrous statement. Numbers are what it is all about. Those bridges are long past their service life and are over capacity and carry twice what they were designed for which was 80k cars 40 years ago. It has to be done now before they completely fail. When they are finished in a few years they can redo the budget and allocate more money for what ever little off ramp you think is so important.

But first things first.

There are no numbers that support spending no state money on Huntsville roads. I know you see everything as Birmingham vs Huntsville, but that is not the argument I was really going for. I want Birmingham to do well just like I want Mobile, Montgomery, Ttown, and Auburn to do well.

My frustration is with a department, that is vital to the success of our state as a whole, being poorly managed with no solutions in sight.

Have a good one Tourian.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Originally Posted by stallty

There are no numbers that support spending no state money on Huntsville roads. I know you see everything as Birmingham vs Huntsville, but that is not the argument I was really going for. I want Birmingham to do well just like I want Mobile, Montgomery, Ttown, and Auburn to do well.

My frustration is with a department, that is vital to the success of our state as a whole, being poorly managed with no solutions in sight.

Have a good one Tourian.

We all have issues with ALDOT. They range from repaving to constructing massive roadways.

I grew up in North Alabama (and I LOVE North Alabama) and now I love living in Birmingham.

Fact is that there are plenty worth projects in Huntsville that are worthy of funding.

Another fact is that the viaduct connecting US280, US 31, I-20, I-59, and I-65 has been in desperate need of replacement. It is literally falling apart. Chunks of roadway deck occasionally fall to the ground after heavy vehicles travel along the road or when traffic jams take a seat.

In the end, Birmingham's 20/59 viaduct is literally one of the most important roadways to fix in the entire state (if but temporarily; the state is legit considering this construction a bandaid...).

No one will dispute that Huntsville's roadways need investment to cope with the ever increasing stress being placed upon them.

But, come on, none of us should be disagreeing about the 20/59 replacement. It's a major choke point and funnel bringing in millions and millions of dollars from areas further southeast to points Birmingham and north (including Huntsville).

I think Tourian's issue was that people were calling foul on on the 20/59 replacement. We need to all be clear that this project is not a project of favoritism but a project of necessity. It is a key link in the state's economy.

[Tourian]

Originally Posted by stallty

There are no numbers that support spending no state money on Huntsville roads. I know you see everything as Birmingham vs Huntsville, but that is not the argument I was really going for. I want Birmingham to do well just like I want Mobile, Montgomery, Ttown, and Auburn to do well.

My frustration is with a department, that is vital to the success of our state as a whole, being poorly managed with no solutions in sight.

Have a good one Tourian.

Read Tascalisa's post please. To dismiss me as just being a homer and this being a vs H'ville thing is quite ironic from someone who thinks road projects should be judged on anything but the amount of traffic they serve and the fact that this is LITERALLY the crossroads of the ENTIRE STATE. This road is more than just Birmingham it serves the whole state either directly or indirectly for travel and commerce. Huntsville can have their projects done later this has to be DONE NOW.

[stallty]

Originally Posted by tascalisa

We all have issues with ALDOT. They range from repaving to constructing massive roadways.

I grew up in North Alabama (and I LOVE North Alabama) and now I love living in Birmingham.

Fact is that there are plenty worth projects in Huntsville that are worthy of funding.

Another fact is that the viaduct connecting US280, US 31, I-20, I-59, and I-65 has been in desperate need of replacement. It is literally falling apart. Chunks of roadway deck occasionally fall to the ground after heavy vehicles travel along the road or when traffic jams take a seat.

In the end, Birmingham's 20/59 viaduct is literally one of the most important roadways to fix in the entire state (if but temporarily; the state is legit considering this construction a bandaid...).

No one will dispute that Huntsville's roadways need investment to cope with the ever increasing stress being placed upon them.

But, come on, none of us should be disagreeing about the 20/59 replacement. It's a major choke point and funnel bringing in millions and millions of dollars from areas further southeast to points Birmingham and north (including Huntsville).

I think Tourian's issue was that people were calling foul on on the 20/59 replacement. We need to all be clear that this project is not a project of favoritism but a project of necessity. It is a key link in the state's economy.

It is an important project and should be done. Birmingham should have demanded it be done long before it was to the point of failing and chunks falling off. At no point though should Birmingham's failures affect the funding of Huntsville projects. Huntsville made some extremely tough decision to make much needed road projects possible so it doesn't get into a situation Birmingham is in now. Birmingham probably should have done the same 20 years ago.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Originally Posted by stallty

It is an important project and should be done. Birmingham should have demanded it be done long before it was to the point of failing and chunks falling off. At no point though should Birmingham's failures affect the funding of Huntsville projects. Huntsville made some extremely tough decision to make much needed road projects possible so it doesn't get into a situation Birmingham is in now. Birmingham probably should have done the same 20 years ago.

The 20/59 project has actually been in the planning stages for a couple of decades, so it's not like people have just been sitting around. Both the city and ALDOT have known for decades it needed to be replaced, that's why the state has been setting aside money every single year for the project so that when designs were finally complete they wouldn't have to wreck 2 budget years' worth of funding to do it.


And honestly, I think we've debated this issue enough by this point. Can we just agree to disagree and let this thread get back to its purpose?

[stallty]

http://www.midcityhuntsville.com/about-midcity/ - Mid city released a fly through video of their development.

If MidCity delivers 1/2 of what they are showing it will be a major upgrade over MSM. This is a pretty exciting development with some actual vision.

[Tennhioland]

Originally Posted by stallty

http://www.midcityhuntsville.com/about-midcity/ - Mid city released a fly through video of their development.

If MidCity delivers 1/2 of what they are showing it will be a major upgrade over MSM. This is a pretty exciting development with some actual vision.

Very nice. They're still not showing the existing movie theater in this update, which would be right where the southern part of the lake is shown.

[mp7123]

Originally Posted by stallty

http://www.midcityhuntsville.com/about-midcity/ - Mid city released a fly through video of their development.

If MidCity delivers 1/2 of what they are showing it will be a major upgrade over MSM. This is a pretty exciting development with some actual vision.

Drove by yesterday and TopGolf is already going vertical. That is definitely a good sign to be going vertical so soon.

Fact is, this project will take 10+ years to completely build out, just like Providence.

[David1502]

Originally Posted by stallty

http://www.midcityhuntsville.com/about-midcity/ - Mid city released a fly through video of their development.

If MidCity delivers 1/2 of what they are showing it will be a major upgrade over MSM. This is a pretty exciting development with some actual vision.

I agree that Mid City will be a huge addition to the HSV area. I have a couple of observations:

1. The outdoor retailer which they speak of in the park area (by the lakes) will most likely be REI. While Bass Pro Shop has shown interest in the area, they will more likely want to be at the I-565/I-65 interchange to draw from a larger area. REI, on the other hand, has a narrower customer base of high income households who are participants in hiking, cycling, rock climbing, etc. This population tends to reside more in Madison County.
2. The amphitheatre which will seat 8,500 - while this is exciting, where will everybody park? To put things in perspective, the Propst Arena at the Von Braun has a maximum capacity of 9,000 and has parking underneath and the deck across the street. From the video, there is little (to none) large parking facilities available and there aren't any adjacent office parks with garages which could be rented out. I'm not trying to be negative, but I am curious as to how they plan to address this.
3. The Food Hall should do well and it is far enough away from City Centre that they should both do alright.
4. Given all of this, where does this leave Town Madison? How many more retailers and restaurants can the area support? It seems that the developers from out of town are far more successful than those which are local. The president of RCP Companies (the developers of Mid City) lives in the Bay area (just north of San Francisco) and has come into the downtown area aggressively with City Centre, and the Whole Foods shopping center as well as the new center on the other side of Bob Wallace where Chuy's will be located. Bridge Street was originally developed by some guys from L.A.

By contrast, Constellation (being developed locally) was announced well over ten years ago and we can see what has happened there. Likewise, Town Madison has been talked about for about ten years and we have yet to hear one tenant announced. I call it the curse of being a local developer in Huntsville. Hopefully, some tenants will be announced soon for Town Madison.

[DP1]

Originally Posted by David1502

I agree that Mid City will be a huge addition to the HSV area. I have a couple of observations:

1. The outdoor retailer which they speak of in the park area (by the lakes) will most likely be REI. While Bass Pro Shop has shown interest in the area, they will more likely want to be at the I-565/I-65 interchange to draw from a larger area. REI, on the other hand, has a narrower customer base of high income households who are participants in hiking, cycling, rock climbing, etc. This population tends to reside more in Madison County.
2. The amphitheatre which will seat 8,500 - while this is exciting, where will everybody park? To put things in perspective, the Propst Arena at the Von Braun has a maximum capacity of 9,000 and has parking underneath and the deck across the street. From the video, there is little (to none) large parking facilities available and there aren't any adjacent office parks with garages which could be rented out. I'm not trying to be negative, but I am curious as to how they plan to address this.
3. The Food Hall should do well and it is far enough away from City Centre that they should both do alright.
4. Given all of this, where does this leave Town Madison? How many more retailers and restaurants can the area support? It seems that the developers from out of town are far more successful than those which are local. The president of RCP Companies (the developers of Mid City) lives in the Bay area (just north of San Francisco) and has come into the downtown area aggressively with City Centre, and the Whole Foods shopping center as well as the new center on the other side of Bob Wallace where Chuy's will be located. Bridge Street was originally developed by some guys from L.A.

By contrast, Constellation (being developed locally) was announced well over ten years ago and we can see what has happened there. Likewise, Town Madison has been talked about for about ten years and we have yet to hear one tenant announced. I call it the curse of being a local developer in Huntsville. Hopefully, some tenants will be announced soon for Town Madison.

There are still plenty of mid-size retailers missing in the area (Trader Joe's, JC Penny, Columbia Sportswear to name a few). Probably, these, along with REI, will fit in Mid City along with a bunch of small businesses.
As for Town Madison, though that area is definitely under-retailed, I do not expect any major announcements until the Zierdt interchange is fully built and Hughes is extended south of Madison Blvd (so probably nothing will happen within the next 3-5 years there).
Not sure why Constellation is still dead - all infrastructure is ready and downtown is thriving in all directions.

[RCSHSV]

Originally Posted by DP1

There are still plenty of mid-size retailers missing in the area (Trader Joe's, JC Penny, Columbia Sportswear to name a few). Probably, these, along with REI, will fit in Mid City along with a bunch of small businesses.
As for Town Madison, though that area is definitely under-retailed, I do not expect any major announcements until the Zierdt interchange is fully built and Hughes is extended south of Madison Blvd (so probably nothing will happen within the next 3-5 years there).
Not sure why Constellation is still dead - all infrastructure is ready and downtown is thriving in all directions.

Constellation if fully funded and progress will be seen in a few months.

Also there will be a parking grarage near the Amphitheatre and more parking next to it.

[DP1]

[QUOTE=RCSHSV;7779207]Constellation if fully funded and progress will be seen in a few months.

This is good news, I guess. Thanks for the update.

[HSVTiger]

Originally Posted by David1502

I agree that Mid City will be a huge addition to the HSV area. I have a couple of observations:

1. The outdoor retailer which they speak of in the park area (by the lakes) will most likely be REI. While Bass Pro Shop has shown interest in the area, they will more likely want to be at the I-565/I-65 interchange to draw from a larger area. REI, on the other hand, has a narrower customer base of high income households who are participants in hiking, cycling, rock climbing, etc. This population tends to reside more in Madison County.
2. The amphitheatre which will seat 8,500 - while this is exciting, where will everybody park? To put things in perspective, the Propst Arena at the Von Braun has a maximum capacity of 9,000 and has parking underneath and the deck across the street. From the video, there is little (to none) large parking facilities available and there aren't any adjacent office parks with garages which could be rented out. I'm not trying to be negative, but I am curious as to how they plan to address this.
3. The Food Hall should do well and it is far enough away from City Centre that they should both do alright.
4. Given all of this, where does this leave Town Madison? How many more retailers and restaurants can the area support? It seems that the developers from out of town are far more successful than those which are local. The president of RCP Companies (the developers of Mid City) lives in the Bay area (just north of San Francisco) and has come into the downtown area aggressively with City Centre, and the Whole Foods shopping center as well as the new center on the other side of Bob Wallace where Chuy's will be located. Bridge Street was originally developed by some guys from L.A.

By contrast, Constellation (being developed locally) was announced well over ten years ago and we can see what has happened there. Likewise, Town Madison has been talked about for about ten years and we have yet to hear one tenant announced. I call it the curse of being a local developer in Huntsville. Hopefully, some tenants will be announced soon for Town Madison.

I believe Mid City will have two parking garages.
The amphitheater is next to the existing movie theater which isn't going anywhere.
TouchStar Cinemas, which launched a petition last year to stop the city from demolishing the theater to build a road as part of the Cummings Research Park East urban renewal agreement, will be a part of MidCity Huntsville.
"The video was produced prior to our decision," Huntsville Director of Urban Development Shane Davis said. "In the layout, the theater is located adjacent to the amphitheater on the north side, currently shown as expanded park/lake area."
The VBC arena holds 10,000