Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by officedweller

The RFP spec for the "ultimate capacity" for Canada Line was for 14,000 passengers per direction per hour based on regional growth projections.
That's versus 25-30,000 passengers per direction per hour for SkyTrain lines.

Richmond is not a "growth concentration area" because of the floodplain and earthquake risk, whereas Coquitlam and Surrey are on bedrock so they are growth concentration areas that will require higher levels of rapid transit service in future.

The Canada Line cars are fatter / wider than SkyTrain MKII/III cars (3.0 m versus 2.6 m) - so the perception of being small scale is exacerbated by the fat short trains. It's been discussed ad nauseum in other threads that the current level of service on Canada Line is no where near its ultimate capacity.

Don't bother explaining this anymore, the same people keep bringing it up no matter how many times it is explained.

Where I live in Japan the main rail line serves a corridor of about 600 000 people. If you averaged out how many rail cars service a station over an hour it has very similar capacity to that of the Canada Line currently. Funny how that is

There are other train lines around here that serves corridors as big as 250 000ish people and regularly run single car trains....

Of course there are other lines that also services areas of 300 000 or so people with 4 or 5 car trains, but those trains are manually driven and only arrive every 15 minutes or so (during peak times).

Vancouver is not Tokyo, or New York, or even Toronto, or Even Montreal. The Canada Line is also a very finite corridor when it comes to growth, unlike the the other two skytrain lines.

The Canada Line is fine. The only real issues to be had are adding more entrances and exits at the busier stations for better passenger flow and adding second platforms for Brighouse and YVR Airport.

Also last trains in most Japanese cities are as early as 11:59 PM, so skytrain also has some decently late service in comparison.

I must also laugh at the hilarious correlation made between our transit ridership and platform lengths. Currently, having 120 meter platforms would not suddenly increase our ridership. People are not avoiding using transit because skytrain only has 80 meter platforms. Seriously, where do people come up with this stuff?

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

I must also laugh at the hilarious correlation made between our transit ridership and platform lengths. Currently, having 120 meter platforms would not suddenly increase our ridership. People are not avoiding using transit because skytrain only has 80 meter platforms. Seriously, where do people come up with this stuff?

yes, i would think thats weird. i dont see how short platforms mean people avoiding transit... but the internet.

i do wish they had up and down escalators though and way more faregates. argggggggg Broadway-City Hall.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Richmond is not a "growth concentration area" because of the floodplain and earthquake risk...

Ah yes, of course that would explain all the greenfield residential and mall developments (such as the new Walmart) going up in Richmond ... NOT!

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

yes, i would think thats weird. i dont see how short platforms mean people avoiding transit... but the internet.

i do wish they had up and down escalators though and way more faregates. argggggggg Broadway-City Hall.

Totally agree with those type of improvements.

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Ah yes, of course that would explain all the greenfield residential and mall developments (such as the new Walmart) going up in Richmond ... NOT!

He is not saying there will be no growth along that corridor (hence the Canada Line has 2.5 times its current ridership of expansion built into its future) but overall it has a far smaller final build out capacity than the corridors that the Expo and Millennium Lines service, especially when concerning urban rail transit.

[officedweller]

Here's the transit map from the 1996 Livable Region Strategy Plan.

Note how Richmond is NOT coloured white
- i.e. it is outside the Growth Concentration Area.


https://www.pibc.bc.ca/sites/default/files/PIBC_session15_THoff_PART1.pdf

Since that time Richmond lobbied to be included in the Growth Concentration Area, despite the risks of natural disasters
(Richmond withheld its approval of the current Regional Growth Strategy, which required unanimous approval of all Metro Vancouver municipalities, until it was included as a growth area).

[osirisboy]

what does being labeled a growth concentration area mean? would Richmond not have been allowed to build what they have built? What about areas such as north van where they have seen a lot of growth and yet they aren't labeled "gca"

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[Metro-One]

The Broadway Station hub is the most anticipated aspect of this entire project. Cant wait until we actually get some real details / preliminary designs.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Since that time Richmond lobbied to be included in the Growth Concentration Area, despite the risks of natural disasters

My point is that whether or not they're in the Growth Concentration Area is largely irrelevant. Richmond is no different than any other municipality in wanting to expand its tax base, there's plenty of development going on there and that's going to increase pressure on the Canada Line. Yes, I agree that there's a long way to go before we run into capacity constraints. But we'll get there, and when we do people are going to ridicule how underbuilt it is.

(and to get back on topic) It would be nice if we avoided that mistake with the Broadway line, especially since it's going to be extremely popular right from day 1.

[Hooknose]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

I'm sure Bway City Hall in particular has a big expansion in its future

A lot of everything WEST of Cambie along Broadway is already developed with three and four story buildings that are too tough economically to tear down and replace with 5 and 6 story buildings.

But EAST of Cambie along Broadway, from 10th to 3rd is completely open.

That is where development will go, starting with the city block the City owns at the southeast corner of Cambie and Broadway.

If the City understands just how vital that area is (because that is where the north-south and east-west lines will cross), they could look at 7 or 10 FSR to make sure that sufficient density comes in so as not to "waste" the once in a city opportunity.

[BIMBAM]

Originally Posted by Hooknose

A lot of everything WEST of Cambie along Broadway is already developed with three and four story buildings that are too tough economically to tear down and replace with 5 and 6 story buildings.

But EAST of Cambie along Broadway, from 10th to 3rd is completely open.

That is where development will go, starting with the city block the City owns at the southeast corner of Cambie and Broadway.

If the City understands just how vital that area is (because that is where the north-south and east-west lines will cross), they could look at 7 or 10 FSR to make sure that sufficient density comes in so as not to "waste" the once in a city opportunity.

They better not screw this up to preserve the views from their precious offices.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by BIMBAM

They better not screw this up to preserve the views from their precious offices.

I think you should all get ready to be disappointed - there are very clear guidelines about heights along West Broadway. They aren't about protecting views from City Hall, they're about protecting views of City Hall. The current office rezoning on West 8th has just been shaved to keep it from blocking those views.

The guidelines set a maximum of four storeys on West Broadway, and perhaps a bit higher across the lane, or more likely there would be a stepped building, with the lane removed. That's still going to be a significant development - it's probably an 8,000 square metre site, so 4 FSR would be over 30,000 square metres of retail & office space.

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

Definetly a good opportunity to create a spectacular station , I wonder where it will rank in terms of daily passengers once things get moving. Would be great to expand the retail element as well.


It's kind of amazing how we have such small expectations, when Toronto built the new line one Extension that's opening thesryear every station is a white elephant except York u.

Well I don't believe in making every station a white elephant. I feel that the Evergreen Line hit the appropriate mark bang on for level of station designs and sizes (and cost). I hope that the Broadway stations are similar in scope save for Broadway, which should be a little more extravagant being a major hub.

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[VancouverOfTheFuture]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Well I don't believe in making every station a white elephant. I feel that the Evergreen Line hit the appropriate mark bang on for level of station designs and sizes (and cost). I hope that the Broadway stations are similar in scope save for Broadway, which should be a little more extravagant being a major hub.

it would be nice if, with redevelopment, all the corners of all the buildings would end up connected with an underground system such as what is found in Toronto's downtown; who knows maybe going along Broadway. one can dream.

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[s211]

Originally Posted by officedweller

It's been discussed ad nauseum in other threads that the current level of service on Canada Line is no where near its ultimate capacity.

What? You mean the title of the Canada Line thread has been lying to me all these years?

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by s211

What? You mean the title of the Canada Line thread has been lying to me all these years?

I think the thread title is a reference to the capacity of the system with the current rolling stock. But of course it's easy to add more trainsets to increase capacity.

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]