Phoenix Development News (3)

[ASU Diablo]

A while back, there was some discussion as to where Quicken Loans would make a move to in downtown. Looks like it's going to be One North Central building.

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2017/04/14/exclusivequicken-loans-focuses-on-space-for.html

[fawd]

Originally Posted by RonnieFoos

So, what's the gist with Derby then? They applied for and was granted a GPLET last summer. As far as the Barry Goldwater lawsuit, I believe that is against the City of Phoenix and not directly against the Derby developers, so why has Derby stalled?

That's a good question and I'm glad you asked, hopefully I can help clear things up.. Think of the Goldwater Institute/Angels Trumpet lawsuit as two distinct parts (which is not correct, but it's the easiest way to explain):


1) Filed a lawsuit against the City of Phoenix. Alleging the GPLET program itself is 'unconstitutional' as it gives advantages to certain developments. City of Phoenix in turn reformed the GPLET program (House Bill 2213)... I guess hoping this GPLET fiasco will just go away?
- Again, the GPLET program is still around (thank goodness), just not as great or advantageous as it was prior to Jan 1.

2) Filed an injunction directly against the City of Phoenix pertaining to the Derby specifically. Disputing The Derby's specific GPLET. Literally alleging the City of Phoenix broke a number of laws with the Derby's GPLET and are therefore demanding the Arizona Superior Court end the Derby GPLET.



So where are we at with the Derby? (keep in mind HB2213 was passed and signed by the Governor on 3/30. HB2213 makes no mention of the Derby since it's a Bill, and not a court ruling. These are separate items).

1) The formal case against the Derby was filed by the Goldwater Institute on March 1st to the Arizona Supreme Court
2) The City of Phoenix responded with a big "Up Yours" and denied it has broken any laws.
3) Phoenix is in the process of assembling and producing documents to prove their case.


MY PERSONAL OPINION
Worst Case Scenario: Derby only gets the Post-Jan1 GPLET. They make a couple adjustments to the ground floor design (more artist space, etc) and shove the development down Matt Englehorn's throat.

Best Case Scenario: Arizona Supreme Court rules in favor of the City of Phoenix and the Derby get's built as-is - also shoving it down Matt Englehorn's throat.



We'll have to wait to see. My 100% guess is we'll have a formal ruling middle of next month??... Really hope this goes the Derby's way - number of projects are waiting to see what happens here.

[ASU Diablo]

Originally Posted by fawd

That's a good question and I'm glad you asked, hopefully I can help clear things up.. Think of the Goldwater Institute/Angels Trumpet lawsuit as two distinct parts (which is not totally correct, but it's the easiest way to explain):


1) Filed a lawsuit against the City of Phoenix. Alleging the GPLET program itself is 'unconstitutional' as it gives advantages to certain developments. City of Phoenix in turn reformed the GPLET program (House Bill 2213)... I guess hoping this GPLET fiasco will just go away
- Again, the GPLET program is still around (thank goodness), just not as great or advantageous as it was prior to Jan 1.

2) Filed an injunction directly against the City of Phoenix pertaining to the Derby specifically. Disputing The Derby's specific GPLET. Literally alleging the City of Phoenix broke a number of laws with the Derby's GPLET and are therefore demanding the Arizona Superior Court end the Derby GPLET.



So where are we at with the Derby? (keep in mind HB2213 was passed and signed by the Governor on 3/30. HB2213 makes no mention of the Derby since it's a Bill, and not a court ruling. These are separate items).

1) The formal case against the Derby was filed by the Goldwater Institute on March 1st to the Arizona Supreme Court
2) The City of Phoenix responded with a big "Up Yours" and denied it has broken any laws.
3) Phoenix is in the process of assembling and producing documents to prove their case.


MY PERSONAL OPINION
Worst Case Scenario: Derby only gets the Post-Jan1 GPLET. They make a couple adjustments to the ground floor design (more artist space, etc) and shove the development down Matt Englehorn's throat.

Best Case Scenario: Arizona Supreme Court rules in favor of the City of Phoenix and the Derby get's built as-is - also shoving it down Matt Englehorn's throat.



We'll have to wait to see. My 100% guess is we'll have a formal ruling middle of next month... Really hope this goes the Derby's way - number of projects are waiting to see what happens here.

Man Fawd...you have been killing it these last couple of days with your updates/posts.

Either way...I hope Matt gets it lol

[downtownphxguy12]

Originally Posted by fawd

That's a good question and I'm glad you asked, hopefully I can help clear things up.. Think of the Goldwater Institute/Angels Trumpet lawsuit as two distinct parts (which is not totally correct, but it's the easiest way to explain):


1) Filed a lawsuit against the City of Phoenix. Alleging the GPLET program itself is 'unconstitutional' as it gives advantages to certain developments. City of Phoenix in turn reformed the GPLET program (House Bill 2213)... I guess hoping this GPLET fiasco will just go away
- Again, the GPLET program is still around (thank goodness), just not as great or advantageous as it was prior to Jan 1.

2) Filed an injunction directly against the City of Phoenix pertaining to the Derby specifically. Disputing The Derby's specific GPLET. Literally alleging the City of Phoenix broke a number of laws with the Derby's GPLET and are therefore demanding the Arizona Superior Court end the Derby GPLET.



So where are we at with the Derby? (keep in mind HB2213 was passed and signed by the Governor on 3/30. HB2213 makes no mention of the Derby since it's a Bill, and not a court ruling. These are separate items).

1) The formal case against the Derby was filed by the Goldwater Institute on March 1st to the Arizona Supreme Court
2) The City of Phoenix responded with a big "Up Yours" and denied it has broken any laws.
3) Phoenix is in the process of assembling and producing documents to prove their case.


MY PERSONAL OPINION
Worst Case Scenario: Derby only gets the Post-Jan1 GPLET. They make a couple adjustments to the ground floor design (more artist space, etc) and shove the development down Matt Englehorn's throat.

Best Case Scenario: Arizona Supreme Court rules in favor of the City of Phoenix and the Derby get's built as-is - also shoving it down Matt Englehorn's throat.



We'll have to wait to see. My 100% guess is we'll have a formal ruling middle of next month... Really hope this goes the Derby's way - number of projects are waiting to see what happens here.

I hope those are the two options. I would like to see this guy screwed. He can take his crappy building and move it to scottsdale.

I wanted to love angels trumpet when it opened and went several times. The food was good and the beers were great, but the acoustics were terrible (i think all the hard surfaces made the place really load). But the main reason i stopped going was literally every time i went the service was terrible. I never new why, but hearing about what a jerk the owner is on a couple of issues it all makes sense. Workers tend to take on the personality of the owner/bosses.

Oh well. Luckily were have lots of food/drink choices now downtown.

[CrestedSaguaro]

That clears up a lot. Thanks for clarifying!

IMO, Derby is one of the best potential developments we have going right now. It would be a shame to see this go. If Goldwater rules in favor of the lawsuit, I see something similar to Circles happening...a few adjustments to appease the RAA (I don't think Matt can be appeased no matter what on this) and they get the go ahead.

Either way, I think Derby will still get built and money will be spent and wasted on a frivolous lawsuit that won't stop the development.

[biggus diggus]

Do you work for the City?

[fawd]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

Do you work for the City?

No.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by airomero83

A while back, there was some discussion as to where Quicken Loans would make a move to in downtown. Looks like it's going to be One North Central building.

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news/2017/04/14/exclusivequicken-loans-focuses-on-space-for.html

Quicken has invested heavily in the downtown of its home city of Detroit. I'd love to see the company do the same here in Phoenix. Of course, I'm struck by the "Quicken needs to figure out parking" quote. With plenty of garages and surface lots that will sell anyone a monthly pass, not to mention bus routes and light rail, there's really nothing to figure out; however, we're not yet at a level of civic maturity where employers feel comfortable with an unbundled, fend-for-yourself approach to employee parking.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

Quicken has invested heavily in the downtown of its home city of Detroit. I'd love to see the company do the same here in Phoenix. Of course, I'm struck by the "Quicken needs to figure out parking" quote. With plenty of garages and surface lots that will sell anyone a monthly pass, not to mention bus routes and light rail, there's really nothing to figure out; however, we're not yet at a level of civic maturity where employers feel comfortable with an unbundled, fend-for-yourself approach to employee parking.

Yep, still at a MAJOR surplus. Yet, rather than educate and innovate, PHX lures businesses to Midtown and the Warehouse District instead of downtown. The wrecking ball keeps hitting the latter, providing more and more surface parking at the expense of the last authentic collection of old build stock for commercial use. WebPT and Iasis would have made great additions to the PBC, and Galvanize could've partnered with the City to take over a space like the Personnel Building in exchange for investing in a high school for tech-oriented students.

The retail plan for One Central shows a Public House opening in the old Duck and Decantur, BTW. Would be great to see true retail vs. office in the spaces along Central that are vacant, too.

Great that a new bar is going into the old Hub building on Central. Definitely the best part of downtown and of course, the densest collection of pre-war building stock. Just imagine if the corner building was fully restored and filled with tenants more exciting than Subway; if the spaces in the HGI get leased and they follow through with their promise to restore the Lodge next door; if 44M, US Bank, and the former Ghost Lounge were filled... and, of course, if the County gave up ownership of the Security Building and its entire floor was filled with something other than blackout panels.

I love the Renaissance updates, but it's too bad they didn't give a little thought to Central, Monroe, and 1st St. The blank facade on Central is a little disappointing. As far as redevelopment on the west side, it's too bad The Heard is in the middle of the block because I think the SWC is a filthy building and wouldn't mind to see it demo'd at all. But, that's unlikely unless it takes The Heard with it. Likewise, despite its great tenants, The Hub building is also an eyesore and I think its front ruined any chance of restoring the old look. I've thought of an adaptive reuse tower combining the C.P. building but the City strictly prohibits that (the Luhrs hotel did try at one time to incorporate the facade of the Congress building and were told no). I think the best case would be for something like an H&M, Target Xpress, etc. to take over the 3 floors and redesign the front.

[ASU Diablo]

New article up on AZCentral regarding the 3 tower project on 3rd St and Pierce and includes some new renderings. Also, includes other tidbits regarding GPLET reform and The Derby construction being "suspended."

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/loca...wsuit-hinders-similar-project/100374394/

[biggus diggus]

Reminds me of the pie-in-the-sky proposals we were seeing in 2005.

[nickw252]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

Reminds me of the pie-in-the-sky proposals we were seeing in 2005.

Pie-in-the-sky were the exact same words that came through my head when I saw this.

I give it a 5% chance that it's built. Looks great though. I hope it is built.

[biggus diggus]

Originally Posted by nickw252

Pie-in-the-sky were the exact same words that came through my head when I saw this.

I give it a 5% chance that it's built. Looks great though. I hope it is built.

Plot twist, though, the Marisol Credit Union relocation is underway. Their new building at 15/Roosevelt/Grand is under construction. Could their move be due to impending construction at the old location, a land banker kicking them out, or none of the above?

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

Reminds me of the pie-in-the-sky proposals we were seeing in 2005.

Its really a shame that a medium sized residential project downtown like this is seen as pie-in-the-sky.

I choose to have faith, Phoenix is growing at a solid click the available parcels downtown are shrinking and other sizeable residential projects downtown are moving regardless of Derby.

I choose to have faith

[biggus diggus]

On the same parcel from the mid 2000's:

[nickw252]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

On the same parcel from the mid 2000's:

Wow how times have changed. I can't imaging a building like that, in the middle of the lot surrounded by surface parking, would be built today.

[PHXFlyer11]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

On the same parcel from the mid 2000's:

HAHA. Even the Keebler Elves were going to build a high-rise back then??

[ASUSunDevil]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

Reminds me of the pie-in-the-sky proposals we were seeing in 2005.

Negative Nancy back at it again.

I do think that Downtown is at a tipping point. If this GPLET doesn't get approved, I think developers will be done trying to get upscale residential built Downtown for the time being. If this one does happen, I expect to see a small wave of awesome new upscale residential proposals (like this one). The approval of this project is extremely important IMO.

[biggus diggus]

Negativity is the realistic point of view learned from years of watching this kind of thing in downtown Phoenix be teased and never built. It's also based on looking at something which is, simply put, a far fetched idea in a market which will have trouble justifying it.

I'd say easily 75% of proposals never get off the ground here.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by biggus diggus

Negativity is the realistic point of view learned from years of watching this kind of thing in downtown Phoenix be teased and never built. It's also based on looking at something which is, simply put, a far fetched idea in a market which will have trouble justifying it.

I'd say easily 75% of proposals never get off the ground here.

when you include everything from the 80's and 90's sure, but in more recent and relevant times with the new demand for downtown living and space I would say 75% of the projects get off the ground, at least in the last 7 or 8 years.

The only major flop I can think of in recent years is the Central station tower.