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  #18681  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2017, 4:47 PM
highlander206 highlander206 is offline
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Originally Posted by Private Dick View Post
You're rarely going to get high end appliances in rental apartments, even if the rents are high.

Not sure about the cabinets, but the appliances are actually pretty nice for rental apartments -- they definitely are not low level models. Some people see appliances that are not stainless steel and think that they're junk... when in fact, most stainless steel appliances that often they put in rental apartments (even high rent places) are total junk... but people think it's luxurious because oooohhh look, stainless steeeel!
I'm not the biggest apartment expert but the white appearance of both the cabinets and appliances makes it look cheap and poorly designed to me IMO. I agree that stainless steel is totally overrated but white appliances just come across to me as being more on the cheap end even though that's not true.
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  #18682  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2017, 5:48 PM
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Austinlee Austinlee is offline
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Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
I'm bullish on East Deutschtown and Troy Hill. Even the lower part of Spring Garden has potential. But Spring Hill, while very undervalued, probably has less upside because it doesn't have much in the way of a potentially walkable commercial district. That brewery will make a big difference if it gets off the ground though.
I wish Spring Hill had even a modest business district, no doubt. But you are forgetting our BIGGEST asset: The View. There are quite a few streets that have amazing views and a decent percentage of houses have rooftop decks.
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  #18683  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2017, 5:58 PM
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Austinlee Austinlee is offline
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Originally Posted by Private Dick View Post
You're rarely going to get high end appliances in rental apartments, even if the rents are high.

Not sure about the cabinets, but the appliances are actually pretty nice for rental apartments -- they definitely are not low level models. Some people see appliances that are not stainless steel and think that they're junk... when in fact, most stainless steel appliances that often they put in rental apartments (even high rent places) are total junk... but people think it's luxurious because oooohhh look, stainless steeeel!
Agreed. Unless you can afford to buy Sub-Zero, Wolf, Electrolux, etc brand commercial kitchen quality stainless appliances then the trend for the last few years of having black appliances with a thin stainless facade is silly. It's the equivalent of new construction Maronda and Ryan Home developments in the suburbs selling you a house for $250k - $350k+ with a brick facade and 3 sides vinyl.

This is a huge personal pet peeve of mine. What it implies to me is, you can afford a new house but you can't afford to build it to the old quality standards of 4 sides brick with real hardwoods (Not thin hardwood veneers 1/8" thick).

I have read that the brick-layers unions in the Northeast here make it cost prohibitive to do 4 sides brick. I've read that in the Southeast US with right-to-work states that new construction tends to get 4 sides brick because they are paying their guys much less.
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  #18684  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2017, 6:25 PM
eschaton eschaton is offline
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Originally Posted by Austinlee View Post
I wish Spring Hill had even a modest business district, no doubt. But you are forgetting our BIGGEST asset: The View. There are quite a few streets that have amazing views and a decent percentage of houses have rooftop decks.
Views can massively inflate the value of houses in Pittsburgh well beyond neighborhood norms, but realistically they're limited to a fraction of any neighborhood. For an example, look at Perry Hilltop, where the expensive houses on the lower parts of Perrysville and Clayton have not done much to stabilize the neighborhood other than those streets.

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Originally Posted by Austinlee View Post
I have read that the brick-layers unions in the Northeast here make it cost prohibitive to do 4 sides brick. I've read that in the Southeast US with right-to-work states that new construction tends to get 4 sides brick because they are paying their guys much less.
While labor costs for bricklaying are much, much higher in the north, SFH residential projects (even large-scale infill) are usually nonunion jobs even in northern cities. Of course, some of the unionized workers may refuse to work the job on the side if it's below job rate, which could keep the costs higher on residential projects. But it's not directly due to the union - it's just construction work is better paying up here in general.

Still, it's true in general one of the reasons why housing could be so ornamental in the late 19th/early 20th century was because there were tons of skilled immigrant craftsmen willing to work for poverty wages. I personally think a decline in detail is worth the tradeoff if it means construction work is a decent living. I think the rise of 3D printing in construction will result in this paradigm breaking soon however.
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  #18685  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2017, 6:51 PM
Don't Be That Guy Don't Be That Guy is offline
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Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Views can massively inflate the value of houses in Pittsburgh well beyond neighborhood norms, but realistically they're limited to a fraction of any neighborhood. For an example, look at Perry Hilltop, where the expensive houses on the lower parts of Perrysville and Clayton have not done much to stabilize the neighborhood other than those streets.



While labor costs for bricklaying are much, much higher in the north, SFH residential projects (even large-scale infill) are usually nonunion jobs even in northern cities. Of course, some of the unionized workers may refuse to work the job on the side if it's below job rate, which could keep the costs higher on residential projects. But it's not directly due to the union - it's just construction work is better paying up here in general.

Still, it's true in general one of the reasons why housing could be so ornamental in the late 19th/early 20th century was because there were tons of skilled immigrant craftsmen willing to work for poverty wages. I personally think a decline in detail is worth the tradeoff if it means construction work is a decent living. I think the rise of 3D printing in construction will result in this paradigm breaking soon however.
Oh, people are still utilizing skilled immigrant labor. That's why it's so much less expensive to build a brick house in the south.

The construction markets in the south are boned if Trump ever gets his wall.
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  #18686  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2017, 7:31 PM
BrianTH BrianTH is offline
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I don't think stainless steel is a mark of quality. But if you can only afford cheap appliances and you happen to like the look of stainless steel, I don't see a problem getting cheap stainless steel appliances. In that sense, it is just another color choice to me.
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  #18687  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2017, 7:41 PM
Don't Be That Guy Don't Be That Guy is offline
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  #18688  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2017, 8:42 PM
BrianTH BrianTH is offline
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It also includes some of the surface parking across Railroad Street - essentially everything west of the curved old railroad ROW.

Remember that the City of Pittsburgh is looking to sell their big DPW complex just upriver from here, so it might not be that long until essentially everything along the river between the 16th Street and 31st Street bridges is redeveloped. Well, discounting Consumer's Fresh Produce, but I'm not sure how much longer they will remain in their current location.
Add 31st Street Studios to list, which is going to a bankruptcy sale:

http://www.post-gazette.com/local/city/2...ories/201704120095?pgpageversion=pgevoke
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  #18689  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2017, 8:53 PM
Private Dick Private Dick is offline
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Originally Posted by BrianTH View Post
I don't think stainless steel is a mark of quality. But if you can only afford cheap appliances and you happen to like the look of stainless steel, I don't see a problem getting cheap stainless steel appliances. In that sense, it is just another color choice to me.
Sure, I think it used to be mainly reserved for commercial kitchens and high grade residential appliances, so it became popular as a mark of exclusivity and became an amenity that people desired (and real estate agents/listings advertised). Pretty much every manufacturer then started offering their lines in stainless steel finish (of varying qualities) to meet the demand which people of course paid a premium for. So yeah, now it has evolved into just another color choice (which you will still pay higher prices for that for white or black).
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  #18690  
Old Posted Apr 12, 2017, 8:59 PM
BrianTH BrianTH is offline
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So yeah, now it has evolved into just another color choice (which you will still pay higher prices for that for white or black).
Yep--last I looked, the stainless option would add like $100 to the price of a $2000 refrigerator, that sort of thing.
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  #18691  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2017, 1:01 PM
highlander206 highlander206 is offline
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Originally Posted by Austinlee View Post
I wish Spring Hill had even a modest business district, no doubt. But you are forgetting our BIGGEST asset: The View. There are quite a few streets that have amazing views and a decent percentage of houses have rooftop decks.
I have family in Spring Hill and agree there is a fantastic view on many streets in that area. Maybe one day I will get a house there.
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  #18692  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2017, 1:23 PM
Private Dick Private Dick is offline
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Originally Posted by Austinlee View Post
I wish Spring Hill had even a modest business district, no doubt. But you are forgetting our BIGGEST asset: The View. There are quite a few streets that have amazing views and a decent percentage of houses have rooftop decks.
It's tough for some of the hillside neighborhoods to have true business districts... not only from an available, realistically buildable space perspective, but also due to lack of easy/quick access and isolation.

That's the negative for me when it comes to those neighborhoods -- lack of connectedness and walkability. I love the views... it's amazing to open your front door and see the cityscape laid out before you, but I always felt so disconnected from the city when I lived there (southside slopes, Mt. Troy just above Troy Hill).
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  #18693  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2017, 1:32 PM
Private Dick Private Dick is offline
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I have family in Spring Hill and agree there is a fantastic view on many streets in that area. Maybe one day I will get a house there.
Yeah, I think Spring Hill (and Troy Hill) probably offers my favorite view of the city.
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  #18694  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2017, 2:24 PM
eschaton eschaton is offline
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It's tough for some of the hillside neighborhoods to have true business districts... not only from an available, realistically buildable space perspective, but also due to lack of easy/quick access and isolation.
Looking at the old historic maps, Spring Hill did have a small business district at the intersection of Rhine and Itin, where the streetcar used to turn. Hamm's Market is still down there, along with an empty octagonal building which used to be a bank. A few of the residential buildings clearly used to be commercial. A little further up Rhine there's Meme's Market. Historically there were a few more that have since been knocked down. It's not much, but it's more than Fineview has, and it probably could be turned back into a mini-business district if there was enough demand (and zoning permitted it.

Of course, it would still be unwalkable for 2/3rds of the neighborhood, which gets back to your expressed concerns.
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  #18695  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2017, 2:52 PM
TBone7281 TBone7281 is offline
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Not development news, exactly, but Smallman Galley has decided on its next batch of incubatees:

http://www.pittsburghmagazine.com/Best-o...2017/Meet-the-New-Smallman-Galley-Chefs/
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  #18696  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2017, 3:39 PM
Private Dick Private Dick is offline
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Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Looking at the old historic maps, Spring Hill did have a small business district at the intersection of Rhine and Itin, where the streetcar used to turn. Hamm's Market is still down there, along with an empty octagonal building which used to be a bank. A few of the residential buildings clearly used to be commercial. A little further up Rhine there's Meme's Market. Historically there were a few more that have since been knocked down. It's not much, but it's more than Fineview has, and it probably could be turned back into a mini-business district if there was enough demand (and zoning permitted it.

Of course, it would still be unwalkable for 2/3rds of the neighborhood, which gets back to your expressed concerns.
Right, there's still little spots like the markets that exist here and there (and I'm sure retail spaces were more numerous in these areas long ago) that serve/served the people living immediately nearby... and I think those little shops tucked in with the houses in the hillside neighborhoods are totally cool.
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  #18697  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2017, 4:01 PM
chiaroscuro chiaroscuro is offline
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  #18698  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2017, 4:20 PM
eschaton eschaton is offline
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I've noticed over the past few weeks they've been doing facade repair work on 713 Penn. I was a bit concerned that the property developers may have given up on the project and were just rehabbing the existing buildings. Looks like they were just starting with what they could do before URA approval.

FWIW, here is the URA agenda for today.

Edit: Planning commission presentation is up, but there are no new items on the agenda at all. I'll take a look at the lot consolidation/division later and see if there's anything interesting. I think a zoning board agenda should land this afternoon as well.

Last edited by eschaton; Apr 13, 2017 at 5:18 PM.
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  #18699  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2017, 5:20 PM
TBone7281 TBone7281 is offline
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That's pretty cool, I rather like those two buildings. Seen HERE.

I was kind of excited when I saw "11 story addition", but they mean a new construction to the complex in general, not to the existing buildings.
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  #18700  
Old Posted Apr 13, 2017, 9:32 PM
DKNewYork DKNewYork is offline
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The building looks great, but for the rents quoted in the article, that kitchen doesn't look like it's of too high quality to me. I'm guessing the counter tops are granite but the cabinets and appliances don't look like they're of high quality to me.
Totally agree---the kitchen looks off. Counters and cabinets seem fine, at least for a rental building. But the oven/range with the high "backsplash" control panel seems really dated. And with the original beams of the building in apparently in the room, I would expect a more industrial look for the oven That said, maybe the target market is transient and hence not swayed by a single kitchen appliance.
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