Expo Line - Surrey Langley Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Who knows? It sure beats building LRT, then later ripping up the LRT and building SkyTrain.

Why would the rip it up? Why not have the 2?

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Why would the rip it up? Why not have the 2?

If the SkyTrain's elevated, it'll probably be built on the light rail's ROW, so the median and tracks have to be cleared. Cut 'n cover, same thing.

Bored tunnel... maybe. But then the LRT's on life support: it's operating on the exact same route and stations as the SkyTrain line, but slower and not as frequently.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

If the SkyTrain's elevated, it'll probably be built on the light rail's ROW, so the median and tracks have to be cleared. Cut 'n cover, same thing.

Bored tunnel... maybe. But then the LRT's on life support: it's operating on the exact same route and stations as the SkyTrain line, but slower and not as frequently.

AT least you'll have preserved the ROW. It'll be a whole lot easier to build over an existing ROW than to try to build a greenfield development.

Let's just see how this LRT does, before we lambaste it. I know a lot of you are against it... but it's a solution now, and one that Surrey can grow around. Waiting for SkyTrain would be another 15 years minimum.

[waves]

"Let's just see how this LRT does, before we lambaste it."

Trial and Error is no way for us to spend $2.6 billion dollars.

[Reecemartin]

Originally Posted by waves

"Let's just see how this LRT does, before we lambaste it."

Trial and Error is no way for us to spend $2.6 billion dollars.

Yeah but, what was just suggested is that the second largest city in our region should just wait to have rapid transit investment. News flash Surrey has been waiting for significant RT investment since the original Expo Line Extension. Surrey is going to need RT in some form and not in another 15-20 years.

[ilikeredheads]

a glorified streetcar is not rapid transit.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

Yeah but, what was just suggested is that the second largest city in our region should just wait to have rapid transit investment. News flash Surrey has been waiting for significant RT investment since the original Expo Line Extension. Surrey is going to need RT in some form and not in another 15-20 years.

Increasing a bunch of the routes from 30 to 20 min service, having better night service, adding B Lines to Scott Road and Fraser Hwy (not the Express type service they like to use instead) and extending the Expo Line Skytrain out to Fleetwood would do a lot more for Surrey transit than this L Line - and be more rapid.

[Reecemartin]

Originally Posted by Sheba

Increasing a bunch of the routes from 30 to 20 min service, having better night service, adding B Lines to Scott Road and Fraser Hwy (not the Express type service they like to use instead) and extending the Expo Line Skytrain out to Fleetwood would do a lot more for Surrey transit than this L Line - and be more rapid.

All of this would require significant funds to operate, surely more than a single LRT line.

And sigh glorified streetcar where have I heard these words before....

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by ilikeredheads

a glorified streetcar is not rapid transit.

Shhhhh, you might upset some of the locals.

[nname]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

All of this would require significant funds to operate, surely more than a single LRT line.

Remember TransLink also have to pay for 20% of the capital cost of the LRT line too - this could be $30-$40M annually on top of the operating cost.

I'm sure $50-$65M a year can bring a lot of bus services.....

[ilikeredheads]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

All of this would require significant funds to operate, surely more than a single LRT line.

And sigh glorified streetcar where have I heard these words before....

You have to understand that transit in Surrey is piss poor compared to Vancouver. Most routes offer 30/60min frequency at best and some even stop running after 9pm. Spending 2.6b on a streetcar does little to improve transit in the bigger picture. You want people to get out of their cars? Then that money is better spent at improving bus service for the rest of the city, especially when 96 B Line (the route that L line is replacing) is not even running at capacity and still have plenty of room for improvement.

[surrey604]

I never understood why Langley ever chose to be a part of gvrd/translink, nor do I see the urgency of connecting to the city of only 100k residents via rapid transit when it is so far away. They already got the widening of fraser highway/ new port mann/ golden ears. IMO Langley should just leave the translink zone. I might be in the minority here but I would much rather just see a skytrain extension south along king george with a station at bear creek park (88th ave or 84th) a station at 72nd avenue. and a final station at king george and 64th or Highway 1. Langley then can run a bunch of rapid buses via highway 1 to the station.

[Reecemartin]

Originally Posted by ilikeredheads

You have to understand that transit in Surrey is piss poor compared to Vancouver. Most routes offer 30/60min frequency at best and some even stop running after 9pm. Spending 2.6b on a streetcar does little to improve transit in the bigger picture. You want people to get out of their cars? Then that money is better spent at improving bus service for the rest of the city, especially when 96 B Line (the route that L line is replacing) is not even running at capacity and still have plenty of room for improvement.

Lived in Surrey most of my life, I'm painfully aware of how poor service is, however I really think getting people out of cars would be better achieved through a higher order of transit, not just more transit.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by surrey604

I never understood why Langley ever chose to be a part of gvrd/translink, nor do I see the urgency of connecting to the city of only 100k residents via rapid transit when it is so far away. They already got the widening of fraser highway/ new port mann/ golden ears. IMO Langley should just leave the translink zone. I might be in the minority here but I would much rather just see a skytrain extension south along king george with a station at bear creek park (88th ave or 84th) a station at 72nd avenue. and a final station at king george and 64th or Highway 1. Langley then can run a bunch of rapid buses via highway 1 to the station.

Or, if the WCE ran every hour or more both ways everyday, then there is no need for the extensions to Langley.

Skytrain extension is more realistic.

[logicbomb]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

Lived in Surrey most of my life, I'm painfully aware of how poor service is, however I really think getting people out of cars would be better achieved through a higher order of transit, not just more transit.

I just moved to near 140th ST and 108th Ave. I also just started my job near Rupert and Grandview which requires me to be in at 7:45am. I tried transit and this required me to leave the house @ 6:15am and walk to Gateway. Why? Because the 335 comes every 15 min until 7ish or so and the 6:20am and 6:35am buses are solidly packed. Once I get to Gateway @ 6:40am, it becomes a challenge trying to get on a train as they are packed. Many riders are backtracking to KG to get seats.

Eventually it just made sense to re-plate the car and spend the difference to save at least an hour on my commutes.

This City and TL are failing big time to keep up with the demand in Surrey. For context. I lived in Fleetwood circa 2009 and worked in downtown. I sometimes used to leave early at 6:30am to beat the AM rush and would be one of the only few on the 335 and was always able to get a seat on a 4 car MKI or 2 car MKII.

I feel really bad for those living along Fraser Highway. Particularly between 140th to 152nd ST where it's nearly impossible to get on a 502/395.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

Lived in Surrey most of my life, I'm painfully aware of how poor service is, however I really think getting people out of cars would be better achieved through a higher order of transit, not just more transit.

Even if LRT takes off without a hitch, somebody in, let's say, Cloverdale trying to get downtown will still have to wait half an hour for a bus to get to the LRT to get to the SkyTrain.

Improving the existing bus network improves transit in all parts of Surrey, not just the general Guildford-Whalley-Newton area - and for only $100-200 million (that's the estimate for the Best Bus solution in Vancouver) to boot.

[casper]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

I just moved to near 140th ST and 108th Ave. I also just started my job near Rupert and Grandview which requires me to be in at 7:45am. I tried transit and this required me to leave the house @ 6:15am and walk to Gateway. Why? Because the 335 comes every 15 min until 7ish or so and the 6:20am and 6:35am buses are solidly packed. Once I get to Gateway @ 6:40am, it becomes a challenge trying to get on a train as they are packed. Many riders are backtracking to KG to get seats.

Eventually it just made sense to re-plate the car and spend the difference to save at least an hour on my commutes.

This City and TL are failing big time to keep up with the demand in Surrey. For context. I lived in Fleetwood circa 2009 and worked in downtown. I sometimes used to leave early at 6:30am to beat the AM rush and would be one of the only few on the 335 and was always able to get a seat on a 4 car MKI or 2 car MKII.

I feel really bad for those living along Fraser Highway. Particularly between 140th to 152nd ST where it's nearly impossible to get on a 502/395.

So basically your saying Translink just need to buy more cars and put them into service. Sounds like a plan. Lets do it.

[flipper316]

Originally Posted by surrey604

I never understood why Langley ever chose to be a part of gvrd/translink, nor do I see the urgency of connecting to the city of only 100k residents via rapid transit when it is so far away. They already got the widening of fraser highway/ new port mann/ golden ears. IMO Langley should just leave the translink zone. I might be in the minority here but I would much rather just see a skytrain extension south along king george with a station at bear creek park (88th ave or 84th) a station at 72nd avenue. and a final station at king george and 64th or Highway 1. Langley then can run a bunch of rapid buses via highway 1 to the station.

Langley already has a bus that goes from 200 and Highway 1 along Highway 1 and terminates at Lougheed Station. It's called the 555. And Fraser Highway is still a crappy 2 lane road from about 232nd to Abbotsford. So it's not expanded all through Langley.

[flipper316]

Originally Posted by logicbomb

I just moved to near 140th ST and 108th Ave. I also just started my job near Rupert and Grandview which requires me to be in at 7:45am. I tried transit and this required me to leave the house @ 6:15am and walk to Gateway. Why? Because the 335 comes every 15 min until 7ish or so and the 6:20am and 6:35am buses are solidly packed. Once I get to Gateway @ 6:40am, it becomes a challenge trying to get on a train as they are packed. Many riders are backtracking to KG to get seats.

Eventually it just made sense to re-plate the car and spend the difference to save at least an hour on my commutes.

This City and TL are failing big time to keep up with the demand in Surrey. For context. I lived in Fleetwood circa 2009 and worked in downtown. I sometimes used to leave early at 6:30am to beat the AM rush and would be one of the only few on the 335 and was always able to get a seat on a 4 car MKI or 2 car MKII.

I feel really bad for those living along Fraser Highway. Particularly between 140th to 152nd ST where it's nearly impossible to get on a 502/395.

Here's a post I made from another transit forum on sspage a few days ago.

Thursday morning March 30, 2017, i had to take transit from my place at Fraser Highway and 148th. I have a car as well but I needed to be in Richmond by 9:30 am. That's pretty far so I decided to transit. I've taken transit from that location in the past on weekday mornings so I have a vague idea of what to expect. Get to the bus stop on the north side of Fraser at 148th at around 7:40 am. Already there is approximately 10 people waiting at the stop to head west to the Skytrain. A 345 King George Station bus comes by and it's totally jammed up. Sorry bus full. 5 minutes later a full 502 flies by. I say screw it and start walking back home to get in the car hoping to god there is no traffic or accidents on the way to Richmond. I peek back at the intersection as I'm walking and see another 345 go by 4/5ths full. There was at that point when I left at least 20 people waiting at that stop. Not sure if they managed to all get on but I know I certainly wouldn't be able to. So there you have it. 3 buses within 15-20 minutes and I'd probably still be waiting there pissed off not being able to get on. Why can't they throw some articulated buses on the 502 route at least to expand capacity.

[Trainguy]

Originally Posted by flipper316

Here's a post I made from another transit forum on sspage a few days ago.

Thursday morning March 30, 2017, i had to take transit from my place at Fraser Highway and 148th. I have a car as well but I needed to be in Richmond by 9:30 am. That's pretty far so I decided to transit. I've taken transit from that location in the past on weekday mornings so I have a vague idea of what to expect. Get to the bus stop on the north side of Fraser at 148th at around 7:40 am. Already there is approximately 10 people waiting at the stop to head west to the Skytrain. A 345 King George Station bus comes by and it's totally jammed up. Sorry bus full. 5 minutes later a full 502 flies by. I say screw it and start walking back home to get in the car hoping to god there is no traffic or accidents on the way to Richmond. I peek back at the intersection as I'm walking and see another 345 go by 4/5ths full. There was at that point when I left at least 20 people waiting at that stop. Not sure if they managed to all get on but I know I certainly wouldn't be able to. So there you have it. 3 buses within 15-20 minutes and I'd probably still be waiting there pissed off not being able to get on. Why can't they throw some articulated buses on the 502 route at least to expand capacity.

Forget the stupid LRT streetcar. Push Skytrain east along Fraser Hwy to at least 160th for now. A 6 car Mark 1 or 3 train would be able to handle all the volume in the morning. The LRT will just ruin 104th and annoy other motorists.