New Downtown Calgary Arena

[craner]

Originally Posted by bap1989

When I see posts like this I always wonder what better use riverfront land could have. Sure there is money to be made selling the land to condo developers but to me that ends up limiting public use of the land as evidenced by all the condos along the gated condos along the riverfront now.

Surely there won't be another commercial center if the new Eau Claire proposal ever goes ahead, so what's wrong with throwing down a big arena/stadium to draw even more people to the riverfront.

I agree, I don't see how an arena/stadium/feildhouse is a bad use for one section of riverfront land. I think it would be fine.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by craner

I agree, I don't see how an arena/stadium/feildhouse is a bad use for one section of riverfront land. I think it would be fine.

So flipping the question around, what value is riverfront to a stadium-type project? Will it have attendees looking out over the beautiful vistas? If there is no value to the project, why are we insisting it be by the water?

[craner]

I'm not insisting it has to be by the water. I just don't think it's a bad use of riverfront if it does end up by the water.

[McMurph]

It is definitely not the best use of riverfront. That stretch of river from about 20th to 14th is the least pleasant and least natural part of the bow in Calgary (I'm speaking as someone who is regularly on it as well as beside it). It's almost canalized with the levees on both sides and has no virtually no natural riparian environment. Some of that is due to the roads and some to the previous remediation, but whatever goes there will have to look at fixing the river itself in addition to the riverfront.

A stadium could make it worse in two ways: 1) not providing the impetus or money to fix it; 2) casting the whole thing in shadow. There are few stadiums or arenas in the world that I know of that are in any way a draw when an event is not on. Most create street fronts or plaza settings that people actively avoid. Do build one in the west village beside an awesome urban river (the Bow rocks) would require a delicate hand, a lot of money, and the will to prioritize the river. I'm sure it could be done. I'm in no way confident that the Flames are the organization to do it.

Backing a stadium onto a transcontinental railway on the other hand...

[McMurph]

as an addendum, moving westbound bow from the river was one of the key pieces of the original area plan. King said it was fine where it was. That would be a huge lost opportunity and it's fairly good sign that King doesn't give a shit about the river.

[craner]

They're about to discuss Calgary Next on the FAN 960 radio if anyone is interested.
It's related to how it ties into a 2026 Olympic bid.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by craner

They're about to discuss Calgary Next on the FAN 960 radio if anyone is interested.
It's related to how it ties into a 2026 Olympic bid.

I have heard two angles regarding Murray Edwards taking Rona Ambrose on an ocean vacation last month. The first was that he was pursuing getting her on board for direct Federal support for building the arena complex, either as part of an Olympics package, or otherwise. While Rona is not running for federal leadership, she is the interim leader and has massive sway within the party (if she were not well respected within the CPC, she would not have been given the interim leadership role). Of course the longer term play would be that the CPC may win back the leadership of the country (though that is a long ways out and is not clear) OR at a minimum would not oppose a Liberal move to support the Olympics (and they've been working with the Federal Liberals, Kent Hehr and others, for some time also). The second was that while the objective of public money for the arena was the same, but that it was part of a growing push within the provincial PC party to have an alternative to Jason Kenney (whose roots were Reform). It might be late in the game (not sure) but the buzz is that Edwards has been pushing for Rona to take on Kenney provincially. Kenney has warts, but he would be more difficult to extract money for an arena from. Remember that the more conservative one is, the less likely public funds flow to projects that benefit individuals/companies. CNRL, as many will know, is among the most politically CPC/PC aligned Calgary companies (and the company's original response to the NDP win, as well as Edwards' personal move of tax dollars to the UK, are both demonstrative of how much they are partisan). None of the above should be a shocker as dabbling has been modus operandi (and some will recall photos and engagement between Flames owners, Gary Bettman and Jim Prentice previously). What might be a surprise to some is how these strategic operations work, and years ahead of execution.

[speedog]

Well Ken King has raised the ante, build the Flames an arena or they'll just move - link. Most likely this will be a prominent issue what with the upcoming municipal election, good timing Ken.

[Hallsy's Toupee]

Hey Calgarians, don't worry - if there's a 2026 Winter Olympics bid in the works, I wouldn't rule out a convey of Brinks trucks full of federal and provincial cash for a new arena and stadium.

[KoolKool]

i love brinks truck . lol

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by speedog

Well Ken King has raised the ante, build the Flames an arena or they'll just move - link. Most likely this will be a prominent issue what with the upcoming municipal election, good timing Ken.

See? Why do people care if a travelling circus moves because the city won't pay for their tent? I'll never understand why people have loyalty to sports teams, when they have no loyalty for the city they happen to be based in.

[Meikkhaell]

Personally I don't believe the Flames' players want to leave. They seem pretty integral to our city, don't they? And a city with a metro population of 1.5~ million, steadily growing, shouldn't be a city one wants to leave. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have strong belief this Ken King guy should get a pole shoved up his ass and make HIM leave. Him stirring up this negativity and having the audacity to threaten Calgarians whilst we have just overcome a recession, is mind boggling to me. I'm sure he's well-payed enough that he can contribute a large portion of his wealth to this project if he's so heavily attached to it, otherwise he should keep to himself. City council has discussed and reviewed ideas on several arena designs and locations, and this bastard is so blinded by his own whimsical fantasy, he seems he'll do whatever it takes to make his a reality. Classic "my-way or the high-way." Literally.
And yet, his arena design doesn't even seem to be that functional. Having a similar capacity to the Saddledome on the arena portion, and (imho) looking like a broken sandwich, this CalgaryNEXT design seems to provide little for neither the fans nor the franchise.
And that's not to mention the ridiculous cost of the project, as well as cleanup that has to be made.

The only one who should be leaving Calgary is King.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by speedog

Well Ken King has raised the ante, build the Flames an arena or they'll just move - link. Most likely this will be a prominent issue what with the upcoming municipal election, good timing Ken.

Feeding bullies never works. If they want to leave, let them leave.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Hallsy's Toupee

Hey Calgarians, don't worry - if there's a 2026 Winter Olympics bid in the works, I wouldn't rule out a convey of Brinks trucks full of federal and provincial cash for a new arena and stadium.

That is not how that works. Out of existing pots for a new arena? Maybe. But extra special new money? Would be a huge change of policy. The feds picking up the majority of security costs would be a large contribution on its own.

There would likely be some money for other venues, but as those would not have been built otherwise, they are not in the 'fungible, all money is equal no matter where it is spent' category.

[Socguy]

Page 2 from the owners handbook... threaten to move. Good timing too, right after the flames clinch a playoff spot.

I view this as an empty threat.

Best information we have suggests the Flames are highly profitable in the 'dome (Won't open the books so don't know exact numbers). So where could they go to do better? Quebec city? Hamilton? If they're such great landing spots why have teams like the Coyotes not jumped at the chance? Besides the league wants to balance both conferences so probably not out east. Las Vegas just got an expansion team so they're out. Maybe Seattle? Could they do better there? Doubtful.

Even if they did take there ball and go elsewhere, there's at least a dozen teams in the NHL who would instantly improve their bottom line by moving into the Saddledome as-is.

In conclusion: Empty threat designed to frighten the gullible into allowing billionaire owners to line their pockets with public money.

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by Socguy

Page 2 from the owners handbook... threaten to move. Good timing too, right after the flames clinch a playoff spot.

I view this as an empty threat.

Best information we have suggests the Flames are highly profitable in the 'dome (Won't open the books so don't know exact numbers). So where could they go to do better? Quebec city? Hamilton? If they're such great landing spots why have teams like the Coyotes not jumped at the chance? Besides the league wants to balance both conferences so probably not out east. Las Vegas just got an expansion team so they're out. Maybe Seattle? Could they do better there? Doubtful.

Even if they did take there ball and go elsewhere, there's at least a dozen teams in the NHL who would instantly improve their bottom line by moving into the Saddledome as-is.

In conclusion: Empty threat designed to frighten the gullible into allowing billionaire owners to line their pockets with public money.

Sadly, there's enough morons in this city that will fall for it.

[McMurph]

Ken King is an asshole and a buffoon. I'm surprised the rest of the organization tolerates his approach.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by McMurph

Ken King is an asshole and a buffoon. I'm surprised the rest of the organization tolerates his approach.

Why would you think he's saying this without the owners' preapproval?

[O-tacular]

Everything about this threat is ridiculous. For one thing what would they do with the Stamps? Suppose they take their toys and run off to an American city or even a Canadian one what would they do with their other franchises? The whole point is they own all the teams in the city. If the Stamps stayed here and the Flames left they'd still be stuck in McMahon. As for the Roughnecks that adds even another layer as I'm not sure the distribution of teams in that league. It's empty posturing / Trumpian bullying.

[craner]

I will say I'm surprised Nenshi has been so aggressive with his anti-arena stance. He definitely comes off to me as not wanting this project to happen at all and he is happy if it doesn't.