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[bomberjet]

The whole side along Carlton is basically open. Well not the whole side, but a large portion. I don't know, I would call it a large opening. It's not small, that's for sure. All relative I guess.

[bomberjet]

Here's what it'll look like. I had thought, as I mentioned above, there was some open area beneath the podium. But it's on the street side, not the plaza side. So it's smaller than I thought. I wonder why they oriented the plaza toward Carlton as opposed to Graham/Hargrave? Maybe due to the Sutton Place part of it.

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

The whole side along Carlton is basically open. Well not the whole side, but a large portion. I don't know, I would call it a large opening. It's not small, that's for sure. All relative I guess.

I really think having the plaza open on the Carlton side could cause issues long term. Across the street the Royal Ballet student residence. Sure they might enjoy the activity in the plaza but they could also be the NIMBY crowd making sure limitations are placed on what can happen there, quiet hours, etc. If they had used a build covering most of the Carlton streetfront they could have tried to isolate the plaza somewhat from the residence and mitigate the issues somewhat before they happen. Also being open more on the Hargrave side would have allowed them to play off street side café/patio on the main floor of CityPlace and really get a nice, mini entertainment district going for events at the MTS Centre.

[Biff]

Same as always - bump to keep the updating photo on the current page...

[bomberjet]

Biff they must've heard you. Elevator core is bumped up another level this afternoon.

[buzzg]

Originally Posted by CoryB

I really think having the plaza open on the Carlton side could cause issues long term. Across the street the Royal Ballet student residence. Sure they might enjoy the activity in the plaza but they could also be the NIMBY crowd making sure limitations are placed on what can happen there, quiet hours, etc. If they had used a build covering most of the Carlton streetfront they could have tried to isolate the plaza somewhat from the residence and mitigate the issues somewhat before they happen. Also being open more on the Hargrave side would have allowed them to play off street side café/patio on the main floor of CityPlace and really get a nice, mini entertainment district going for events at the MTS Centre.

I agree 100%. I feel like now the idea of reopening cityplace and using Hargrave as a mixed use street is dead. It's going to be BARREN there. I really hope the choice didn't have to do with the direction of the streets, because we could have fixed that.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Biff they must've heard you. Elevator core is bumped up another level this afternoon.

Damn rights!

[The Unknown Poster]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Here's what it'll look like. I had thought, as I mentioned above, there was some open area beneath the podium. But it's on the street side, not the plaza side. So it's smaller than I thought. I wonder why they oriented the plaza toward Carlton as opposed to Graham/Hargrave? Maybe due to the Sutton Place part of it.

Ah ok. Thanks for that. I was imagining it opened up on the City Place side for some reason. But looks like more of a pass-through to the actual plaza. That is kind of odd. I would have thought they'd want the wide open plaza area situated at the foot of MTSC. This feels a bit disconnected from the arena.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by The Unknown Poster

Ah ok. Thanks for that. I was imagining it opened up on the City Place side for some reason. But looks like more of a pass-through to the actual plaza. That is kind of odd. I would have thought they'd want the wide open plaza area situated at the foot of MTSC. This feels a bit disconnected from the arena.

My guess is that once it's completed it'll feel a little more connected than the renderings make it look.

[buzzg]

There does seem to be some sort of mini-plaza right at the street corner. Also the renderings show that corner as a woonerf (mixed ped/auto, sidewalk and street at same height) so maybe it will feel like you can just wonder over that way.

[esquire]

I think the perspective matters... the rendering looks like it was drawn from the perspective of the roof of MTS Centre. By contrast, when you walk out the SW MTS Centre doors at ground level, the TNS plaza will probably dominate the view and feel much more connected as a result.

[BigG]

I think that the lay out was deemed in that fashion because TNS was to be encompassed by the four buildings.

[bomberjet]

Ya, like you folks have said. I think it was supposed to feel connected to the Sutton Place thing.

I also feel that there is still great opportunity to open up City Place to the street. North of the elevator core for Scotia Bank, there will be some kind of open space below the podium fronting onto Hargrave. Initial renderings had shown a raised intersection at Graham and Hargrave, with a proposed event closures of Hargrave Ave. It would be like a pedestrian mall. Seems like that could still fly IMO.

[buzzg]

^It could still happen, but because the block of Hargrave between Portage and Graham is essentially a back lane, starting the ped street just north of the elevator core makes it very small. The other issue is the loading docks are at the SE corner of the building on Hargrave, so they would need to take Hargrave north to get out, making it impossible to close the street.

[bomberjet]

Well it could be closed with no deliveries permitted during this time. Maybe they route traffic back the other way on Hargrave during that time frame. Maybe close the street at St. Mary, I don't know. This would likely only be during NHL playoff times as well. Which we know are almost non-existent around here. Or for one off events.

The floor plans also show a retail unit going in the main floor space at the north end. Hopefully it's some type of restaurant with a patio out front.

[1ajs]

Originally Posted by The Unknown Poster

Ah ok. Thanks for that. I was imagining it opened up on the City Place side for some reason. But looks like more of a pass-through to the actual plaza. That is kind of odd. I would have thought they'd want the wide open plaza area situated at the foot of MTSC. This feels a bit disconnected from the arena.

looks to me they are taking advantage of the sun in their plazza specialy for cold winter days

[TimeFadesAway]

Originally Posted by 1ajs

looks to me they are taking advantage of the sun in their plazza specialy for cold winter days

Good point, I hadn't thought of that but would be willing to bet that this is the biggest driver of orienting the plaza this way.

[bomberjet]

Yes good point. The Scotiabank tower will block a lot of that at certain times. But yes, definitely helps to have the buildings oriented that way.

[bomberjet]

I just wanted to post these boards again from the Plaza open house. They show the opening we've discussed, the weather effects, etc. And yes the sun plays into it.

http://www.truenorthsquare.com/development/public-realm/

[CoryB]

Originally Posted by buzzg

I agree 100%. I feel like now the idea of reopening cityplace and using Hargrave as a mixed use street is dead. It's going to be BARREN there. I really hope the choice didn't have to do with the direction of the streets, because we could have fixed that.

To me it feels like the choice to basically have a wall on Hargrave opposite CityPlace instead of an opening to the plaza almost feels like it was driven to limit the gains the CityPlace developer would have from what TNS is doing. If the TNS was mirrored with the opening on Hargrave instead of Carlton There are fewer "losers" as the ballet residence isn't suddenly going to compete with the TNS plaza and the former Hulls on the corner currently has a wall along Carlton, sure it might open up to the plaza but it is small compared to what CityPlace could pull off.