The future of Ottawa's Transit

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by acottawa

It's the local neighbourhood route for manor park. It gets of the main street to go north at at Birch, heads east on Sandridge and then south on the residential portion at St. Laurent before catching up with the main street again at the Dairy Queen.

At the point you call "catching up" it is moving in the same direction on the same street.

There's nothing wrong with that, but if someone were on St. Laurent looking to get to Rideau, there is no clue in OC Transpo's categorization of routes that the "frequent" 14 will head to Rideau by fairly direct means while the "frequent" 7 will head to Rideau by very indirect means.

That problem, to the extent that it is a problem, which isn't much, already exists now.

Major destinations or transfer points are the origin/terminus for multiple routes. That's a feature, not a bug.

I really don't get the fetishization around these parts for ironing all the useful kinks out of trunk routes that cannot physically avoid those kinks. Yes, by all means straighten routes that (a) can be, and (b) need to be, but we've pretty well done all of that straightening and simplification already. Any more that is done, is at the expense of service.

[TransitZilla]

There is a new image of the Rapid & Frequent Route network on the OC site:



From the image it looks like:

Current 1 -> 6 (South Keys-Downtown); 10 (Downtown-Rockcliffe)
Current 4 -> 8 (Hurdman-Carleton-Gatineau)
Current 7 -> 7 (Downtown-Carleton-Baseline); 17 (Downtown-St Laurent)
Current 8 -> 44 (Billings-Hurdman)
Current 14-> 14, modified to end at Tunney's in the west end. Carlington section becomes route 53 (Carlington-Tunney's)
Current 16-> 51
Current 87-> 57 (Baseline-Tunney's); 90 (South Keys-Hurdman)
Current 94-> 74 (Riverview-Tunney's); 25 (Blair-Millenium)
Current 95-> 75 (Barrhaven-Tunney's); 39 (Blair-Trim plus extension to Millenium)
Current 97-> 59 (Bells Corners-Tunney's); 97 (Airport-Hurdman)
Current 106->45 (looks like it will be re-routed along hew Hospital Link road and may end at the hospital instead of Elmvale)
Current 111->7
Current 114->40

The map seems to show that the new split routes from the east (10, 17) will end downtown, likely at Bank St. similar to the 19.

[hwy418]

Wonder why they didn't use elongated hexagonal shape for the "Frequent Routes" on this map...

[FFX-ME]

It seems like a better airport link connection would be to rail over the current 97 BRT route. I guess the spur could always be extended in the future. From Hurdman it could then perhaps go downtown. Under that scenario the Ottawa metro would have a layout similar to Rome.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

At the point you call "catching up" it is moving in the same direction on the same street.



That problem, to the extent that it is a problem, which isn't much, already exists now.

Major destinations or transfer points are the origin/terminus for multiple routes. That's a feature, not a bug.

I really don't get the fetishization around these parts for ironing all the useful kinks out of trunk routes that cannot physically avoid those kinks. Yes, by all means straighten routes that (a) can be, and (b) need to be, but we've pretty well done all of that straightening and simplification already. Any more that is done, is at the expense of service.

I made a comment that the frequent routes weren't very frequent. Somebody made the point that even if not frequent they provide a more direct routing. I made the point that they don't (at least not on a consistent basis) and provided an example.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by FFX-ME

It seems like a better airport link connection would be to rail over the current 97 BRT route. I guess the spur could always be extended in the future. From Hurdman it could then perhaps go downtown. Under that scenario the Ottawa metro would have a layout similar to Rome.

I think it is more likely that the Trillium line will be truncated to end at the Airport (becoming Airport-Bayview or Airport-Gatineau) and the LRT to Riverside South will become electrified and extended along the SE Transitway to Hurdman.

I can't foresee there being appetite in the future to shut down the Trillium line in its entirety to double-track and electrify it. Population growth in the south will eventually necessitate a double-tracked, electrified line.

It should be possible to double-track and electrify the line south of South Keys without shutting down the rail service for an extended period.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

From the image it looks like:

Current 1 -> 6 (South Keys-Downtown); 10 (Downtown-Rockcliffe)
Current 4 -> 8 (Hurdman-Carleton-Gatineau)
Current 7 -> 7 (Downtown-Carleton-Baseline); 17 (Downtown-St Laurent)
Current 8 -> 44 (Billings-Hurdman)
Current 14-> 14, modified to end at Tunney's in the west end. Carlington section becomes route 53 (Carlington-Tunney's)
Current 16-> 51
Current 87-> 57 (Baseline-Tunney's); 90 (South Keys-Hurdman)
Current 94-> 74 (Riverview-Tunney's); 25 (Blair-Millenium)
Current 95-> 75 (Barrhaven-Tunney's); 39 (Blair-Trim plus extension to Millenium)
Current 97-> 59 (Bells Corners-Tunney's); 97 (Airport-Hurdman)
Current 106->45 (looks like it will be re-routed along hew Hospital Link road and may end at the hospital instead of Elmvale)
Current 111->7
Current 114->40

The map seems to show that the new split routes from the east (10, 17) will end downtown, likely at Bank St. similar to the 19.

Awesome! So many transfer penalties to just get from one central neighbourhood to another!

A "rapid" or "Frequent" network that inserts time-penalties, depending on time of day and week, of up to half an hour (assuming the buses are even running on time), into what is currently a seamless trip, is neither rapid nor frequent.

And there is still absolutely nothing in any project or budget envelope that I have seen to suggest that there will be any TPMs on any major downtown trunk route. No lanes, no queue-jumps, no smart signals. Nothing. Just the same dumb bus transit that has existed since the streetcars were pulled out.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I made a comment that the frequent routes weren't very frequent. Somebody made the point that even if not frequent they provide a more direct routing. I made the point that they don't (at least not on a consistent basis) and provided an example.

Except that route 7 is not a terribly good example of an "indirect" routing.

Oh well; i look forward to all the new "direct" routings on the downtown routes, with the attendant increase in time that OC Transpo is stealing from downtown transit users by spliting useful routes up into useless shorter segments and forcing us to wait and wait and wait and wait to continue trips from one neighbourhood to another that are, or until recently were, seamless and trouble-free.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

There is a new image of the Rapid & Frequent Route network on the OC site:

Also, that's a diagram: Anyone seen a map?

And not just a diagram: a really crappy one that doesn't unambiguously show where the routes originate/terminate.

[Uhuniau]

Also, looks like the No Buses on Wellington Fetishists are getting their way: the experience of moving in a vehicle past the iconic seat of Canadian democracy is now reserved for private automobiles.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by FFX-ME

From Hurdman it could then perhaps go downtown.

Or north along the Vanier Parkway to irrigate some of the mass-transit desert in the downtown east end that has been created by transit policy, and will be perpetuated for a century or more as we continue to spend all our resources extending LRT further and further out into the suburbs.

[lrt's friend]

Notice that Route 14 east and west do not connect at the same Confederation Line station.

I find it strange that Route 7 and 111 are going to be connected. The route is so indirect, that I can't imagine significant through ridership.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Notice that Route 14 east and west do not connect at the same Confederation Line station.

I find it strange that Route 7 and 111 are going to be connected. The route is so indirect, that I can't imagine significant through ridership.

Route 14 being disconnected is a glitch in the map, I think. Whenever a route is split, it's always given two different route numbers. 14 looks to be a through route from St. Laurent through Overbrook/Vanier down Rideau, then down Gladstone. The difference is that 14 will no longer go down to Carlington, instead when it hits Parkdale, it will turn north at end at Tunney's, with a new route 53 covering the old Carlington portion. In other words--the 14 is being split in two at Gladstone & Parkdale with each half continuing to Tunney's Pasture station.

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by hwy418

Wonder why they didn't use elongated hexagonal shape for the "Frequent Routes" on this map...

Looks like they've corrected this in the source image!

There other glitches in the diagram as some have pointed out:

• the 14 east and west of downtown aren't connected
• the 12 and 14 are shown as separate linest even though both use Rideau St.

[DarthVader_1961]

Finally stopping the stupidity of having the 97 go all the way to Bells Corners.

What is meant by rapid/frequent? Every 15 minutes?

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

Route 14 being disconnected is a glitch in the map, I think. Whenever a route is split, it's always given two different route numbers. 14 looks to be a through route from St. Laurent through Overbrook/Vanier down Rideau, then down Gladstone. The difference is that 14 will no longer go down to Carlington, instead when it hits Parkdale, it will turn north at end at Tunney's, with a new route 53 covering the old Carlington portion. In other words--the 14 is being split in two at Gladstone & Parkdale with each half continuing to Tunney's Pasture station.

This entire thing is sloppy. It needs to be withdrawn and replaced, at least from a pure graphic design perspective, to say nothing of a transit design perspective.

Does anyone involved in this actually use the public transit system they are toying with? Or any other public transit system, for that matter? This garbage graphic is not something that anyone who actually uses transit in their daily life would ever have allowed to see daylight.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by DarthVader_1961

Finally stopping the stupidity of having the 97 go all the way to Bells Corners.

What's stupid about that? Bells Corners has had really bad transit access since the last redrawing of the map.

[Uhuniau]

There is a segment southeast of Baseline, below the "88" hexagon, without a label of its own.

What is that?

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

There is a segment southeast of Baseline, below the "88" hexagon, without a label of its own.

What is that?

It's the current 111.

My guess is that the plan is to re-number it as an extension of the 7 from Carleton.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by bradnixon

It's the current 111.

Why would a map of the future rapifrequent network show the current route, and why is it not labelled?

My guess is that the plan is to re-number it as an extension of the 7 from Carleton.

A good graphic or diagram or map does not leave its intended audience guessing as to its meaning.

I interpret the same image as showing the 7 terminating/originating at Cartoon U.