The Metro Vancouver Retail Thread

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by memememe76

Except for things like airline tickets, I don't buy online either.

Anyways, it's not like Downtown just focuses on luxury stores. The opening of Costco was not that long ago. Same for Old Navy. Same for No Frills. I wonder if one of those Walmart Neighbourhood concepts could work.

The old Main Post Office on Georgia will have a bunch of big box stores.

Looking at the plans, there's just some perimeter retail and a lot of disjointed big boxes -on different levels largely accessed by their own very long escalators (which may be holdovers from post office use, as I think I've seen them on episodes of Arrow).
Those stores won't have any street presence at all other than signage (given the heritage façade)

I wouldn't call it a "mall" - so I can't really think of any large "lifestyle" stores wanting into that particular retail environment.

Here are the floorplates for the retail at the Main Post Office redevelopment:

I've circled in red the escalator access to each of the retail big boxes from the Homer Street level "concourse" (Level 02).
FYI - "Ground Floor" is at-grade on Hamilton St., but underground on Homer St.
Note that the building's parking ramp / driveway bisects the retail concourse.

The most northerly set of escalators goes to the big box in the basement.
The other two banks of escalators are split
- there are side-by-side sets with one set going to Level 03 and the adjacent set going to Level 04.
- there are no escalators *planned* connecting Level 03 to Level 04 (unless a tenant takes 2 levels)
- the 3rd and 4th floors are *planned* to be subdivided for 2 tenants each (north half and south half)


http://rezoning.vancouver.ca/applications/349wgeorgia/documents/ApplicantBoards2.PDF


http://rezoning.vancouver.ca/applications/349wgeorgia/documents/ApplicantBoards2.PDF

[connect2source]

Originally Posted by logan5

News flash! All malls are out dated. The future is cultivating great retail streets, like East Pender or Cordova.

In a perfect world yes, I'M ALL OVER streets over malls in cities but I think the mall discussion here is more 'burb' centric, no streets to cultivate other than a manufactured 'high streets'.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Why do they need a mall when there's Park Royal? When Brentwood Mall is finished that's a 15 minute drive from the center of North Vancouver.

If there isn't a Park Royal Mall, I bet you will say, "Why does North Vancouver need a mall when there is downtown?" It's all relative. The thing is, one needs to "drive". I think all city centres should have walking distance to malls, or some form of compact retail centres.

[Pinion]

Capilano mall is as close to walking distance as we could ever get around Lonsdale, and it's dying as mentioned because neighbourhood malls are a relic of the past. If it wasn't for Walmart it would've shuttered 10+ years ago.

Lynn Valley Centre on the other side had the option to rebuild and expand Brentwood/Lougheed style, but instead chose to shrink in favour of condos, and is now mostly a place to buy food.

The demand isn't there.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Vin

If there isn't a Park Royal Mall, I bet you will say, "Why does North Vancouver need a mall when there is downtown?" It's all relative. The thing is, one needs to "drive". I think all city centres should have walking distance to malls, or some form of compact retail centres.

All the city centres have compact retail centres. Park Royal is a destination mall for the entire North Shore since there is zero demand or space for another one.

[connect2source]

COS has opened their Gastown location, 4th in Canada, 1st in Vancouver.

http://www.retail-insider.com/retail-insider/2017/3/cos-vancouver

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Pinion

Capilano mall is as close to walking distance as we could ever get around Lonsdale, and it's dying as mentioned because neighbourhood malls are a relic of the past. If it wasn't for Walmart it would've shuttered 10+ years ago.

Lynn Valley Centre on the other side had the option to rebuild and expand Brentwood/Lougheed style, but instead chose to shrink in favour of condos, and is now mostly a place to buy food.

The demand isn't there.

I think you still don't get it. Malls should be in high-density neighbourhoods. Capilano mall is another suburb mall built in the wrong place. There is always a demand for a mall, and one at the Lonsdale area would be superb. Lonsdale Quay is essentially a small mall and it has always been doing OK, although not exceptional.

[Pinion]

No I get it, I just disagree. A mall closer to Lonsdale would just kill Lonsdale, much like how Metrotown killed Kingsway. I'd rather have thriving street retail, and Lonsdale is finally getting there.

[Vin]

Originally Posted by Pinion

No I get it, I just disagree. A mall closer to Lonsdale would just kill Lonsdale, much like how Metrotown killed Kingsway. I'd rather have thriving street retail, and Lonsdale is finally getting there.

Metrotown never "killed" Kingsway, and it's not like Kingsway was a major street-front retail way back before the mall was built. As far as I know, the row of a few shops facing Metro is still there, with all retail space filled. Likewise, PC mall also never "killed' the shops around it.

The same goes for all other malls too, in fact, many shops thrive around them. Name me a mall which is surrounded by shuttered shops?

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by Vin

Metrotown never "killed" Kingsway, and it's not like Kingsway was a major street-front retail way back before the mall was built. As far as I know, the row of a few shops facing Metro is still there, with all retail space filled. Likewise, PC mall also never "killed' the shops around it.

The same goes for all other malls too, in fact, many shops thrive around them. Name me a mall which is surrounded by shuttered shops?

Granville has certainly suffered as a result of Pacific Centre, as has Robson.

Likewise look to Yonge st in Toronto and the decline in its retail importance following the construction of TEC.

Of course malls are going to attract shoppers and retailers who would normally be streetside. If they didn't they'd be empty. Is there some synergy? Of course. But for every synergistic event there are many more destructive events where an indoor mall causes a vacancy or substandard tenancy in a streetfront unit.

The real question we need to ask is do we as a society want indoor shopping or do we want to limit it to promote streetfront retail. That is of course a highly subjective opinion with no right answer.

[connect2source]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

Granville has certainly suffered as a result of Pacific Centre, as has Robson.

Likewise look to Yonge st in Toronto and the decline in its retail importance following the construction of TEC.

Of course malls are going to attract shoppers and retailers who would normally be streetside. If they didn't they'd be empty. Is there some synergy? Of course. But for every synergistic event there are many more destructive events where an indoor mall causes a vacancy or substandard tenancy in a streetfront unit.

The real question we need to ask is do we as a society want indoor shopping or do we want to limit it to promote streetfront retail. That is of course a highly subjective opinion with no right answer.

Granville was in pretty bad shape when the first phase of Pacific Centre opened in 1973, efforts to turn Granville into a transit mall failed miserably and probably contributed more to it's decline in the 70's than did Pacific Centre.

Robson, however, thrived a decade later and become a more successful retail strip than Granville ever was, same in Toronto, Yonge suffered when Eaton Centre opened but Queen St West thrived much the way Robson did. Pacific Centre and Robson coexisted very successfully through the 80's and 90's and into the early 2000's, Robson is suffering because rents have increased disproportionately to foot traffic while landlords have failed to redevelop it and provide CRU's that today's retailer demand, hence the demise of the 1100 block.

Canadian cities saw the advent of downtown malls likely due to general decline of street retail due to suburbanization in the 60's and 70's, malls provided weather protection and brought many shoppers back and in the decades to follow most major cities struck a nice balance between street and mall retail which continues to this day. Eaton Centre and Pacific Centre remain top performers and most street retail has survived in various forms. Most recently Toronto and Vancouver have seen rapid growth in street retail in the luxury sector.

[Built Form]

lululemon & Steve Madden is replacing LeChateau in Pacific Centre

[theKB]

Originally Posted by connect2source

Robson, however, thrived a decade later and become a more successful retail strip than Granville ever was, same in Toronto, Yonge suffered when Eaton Centre opened but Queen St West thrived much the way Robson did. Pacific Centre and Robson coexisted very successfully through the 80's and 90's and into the early 2000's, Robson is suffering because rents have increased disproportionately to foot traffic while landlords have failed to redevelop it and provide CRU's that today's retailer demand, hence the demise of the 1100 block.

What little memory I have of Robson in the 80's and 90's was that it was happening and exciting. Lots of people going out, cars doing the circuit etc. All the restaurants of which a few remain.

Overall the city is getting more and more generic and retail is a big part of making a city or a district interesting and it seems that the landlords really could care less if anyone was sitting on those empty storefronts. Paying 40k a month for a 3000 sq-ft dump is not appealing for most retailers although it looks like rents are coming down on robson it seems as though some of the spaces on granville that are run down old buildings are trying to get the same rents. I wonder what sort of inducements the landlords are offering.

[gillty]

Originally Posted by connect2source

COS has opened their Gastown location, 4th in Canada, 1st in Vancouver.

http://www.retail-insider.com/retail-insider/2017/3/cos-vancouver

Interesting that H&M has gone for a more upscale, yet staple driven, boutique concept. Whereas, Uniqlo has gone the other way with their spinoff brand GU which is even lower in price, less staple driven in design, and often larger in size.

Wonder how H&M will do with COS, seems a bit fake imo. Although I like the idea of staple driven and simple design.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by gillty

Interesting that H&M has gone for a more upscale, yet staple driven, boutique concept. Whereas, Uniqlo has gone the other way with their spinoff brand GU which is even lower in price, less staple driven in design, and often larger in size.

Wonder how H&M will do with COS, seems a bit fake imo. Although I like the idea of staple driven and simple design.

It will probably implode in ten years like most other fashion brands that seem to be taking over the world.

[SpongeG]

some of the COS stores are pretty big. It kinda reminds me of Jil Sander stuff that is affordable.

Jil Sander




COS

[officedweller]

Still haven't gone into the Massino Dutti in Pacific Centre.

That's the Zara equivalent, isn't it?

[SpongeG]

Massimo is Zara's upscale brand, lots of suits and dress shirt kind of stuff. More like Banana Republic, business casual to suits.



even the interiors are very banana republic

[connect2source]

Bought several items at Massimo Dutti when in Europe, much higher quality than Zara, just bought a blazer at the Pacific Centre location and very pleased with the fit and quality. Shirts seem exceptionally well made, better quality than say, Strellson. The cuffs on my Strellson shirts seem to fray quite quickly, Massimo Dutti shirts hold up better.

[memememe76]

Originally Posted by Pinion

Capilano mall is as close to walking distance as we could ever get around Lonsdale, and it's dying as mentioned because neighbourhood malls are a relic of the past. If it wasn't for Walmart it would've shuttered 10+ years ago.

I would think having a store like Walmart occupy these malls is a preferred thing. Contrast that to the North Van Superstore, which is basically in the middle of nowhere. Or building an entirely new strip mall, like the one with the Stong's.