Millennium Line - Broadway Extension: Planning & Pre-Construction

[Metro-One]

Originally Posted by VancouverOfTheFuture

would 4 tracks even be useful for this? UBC to VCC-Clark is only ~12kms. and with a regular speed of 60km/h would it really be necessary? i don't think it would.

Good point.

The Expo Line is the only line that arguably could use an express train.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Is this not the same man who killed the transit referendum and the HST.

Surely you're not confusing Harcourt with Vander Zalm???

[Bdawe]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Is this not the same man who killed the transit referendum and the HST?

While I agree with his vision for Skytrain (though in Japan lots of trains run express services without 4 rail beds, just more platforms in stations and maybe a third rail along shared lines) it annoys me how he is fanning the classic rod vs. transit debate which ends up just being toxic for improving both.

this is the second person I've seen confusing Mike Harcourt and Bill Vanderzalm.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Is this not the same man who killed the transit referendum and the HST?

While I agree with his vision for Skytrain (though in Japan lots of trains run express services without 4 rail beds, just more platforms in stations and maybe a third rail along shared lines) it annoys me how he is fanning the classic rod vs. transit debate which ends up just being toxic for improving both.

I feel like you're thinking of Bill Vander Zalm. This is the NDP ex-Premier, not the Socred one.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Bdawe

this is the second person I've seen confusing Mike Harcourt and Bill Vanderzalm.

Holy 🞵🞵🞵🞵, they could not be more different.

[idunno]

^^This is true.

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[Jebby]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

Nonetheless it's a interesting idea especially considering the limited capacity of Skytrains of the current length, this would certainly be a very flashy way to add capacity.

SkyTrain is nowhere near capacity, though.

Currently, the peak hour capacity of the Expo Line is 15,400 pphpd.

The Expo and Millennium lines could each ultimately have a capacity of 25,700 pphpd, so almost double of what they currently have.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

The express idea on Broadway could actually make alot or sense supposing the line has a branch added on the East of Broadway someday. I mean Broadway or all corridors probably has significant growth potential, and the corridor is probably long enough to justify express, especially if people can ride a train from Coquitlam to UBC which goes express after VCC. While Expo has alot of potential I don't know how easy it is to add two tracks to an elevated or subway line after initial construction. I'm pretty sure IRT Lexington Avenue in New York was constructed with four tracks from the start?

Nonetheless it's a interesting idea especially considering the limited capacity of Skytrains of the current length, this would certainly be a very flashy way to add capacity. It all comes down to money though, I think it's been mentioned that bores aren't actually THAT expensive compared to big stations, what would the likely cost delta be free a four vs two track solution?

The 4 track lines in NYC are all cut and cover construction. It would mean a much larger tunnel to build a 4 track configuration as a bore. Skytrain is already faster than much of the NYC subway anyways, so this is kind of pointless. Building bigger stations would be much cheaper.

[milomilo]

There's zero chance express lines are going to built on Broadway, it's not even worth discussing. There's a reason they aren't built on any other metro systems these days, and Broadway is not any different to those.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by milomilo

There's zero chance express lines are going to built on Broadway, it's not even worth discussing. There's a reason they aren't built on any other metro systems these days, and Broadway is not any different to those.

So you're going to tell us there have been no new express lines built in major metropolitan systems in the last ten years?

[logan5]

Originally Posted by milomilo

There's zero chance express lines are going to built on Broadway, it's not even worth discussing. There's a reason they aren't built on any other metro systems these days, and Broadway is not any different to those.

Not gonna happen but its worth discussing. One idea leads to another idea...

[milomilo]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

So you're going to tell us there have been no new express lines built in major metropolitan systems in the last ten years?

I can't think of any examples, but if you have any I'd be interested! It just isn't good value for money, you are basically doubling the cost of the tunnels to maybe, but probably not, double to the theoretical max capacity, which won't be needed immediately anyway.

The money would be much better spent on a parallel line if the capacity is needed, or lines elsewhere.

[Alex Mackinnon]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

So you're going to tell us there have been no new express lines built in major metropolitan systems in the last ten years?

Basically none. I can't think of any city other than NYC that does the whole 4 track setup. Everywhere else generally just does a parallel line. If you want it to be faster, then you build less stations.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

So you're going to tell us there have been no new express lines built in major metropolitan systems in the last ten years?

There probably hasn't been a need to since the only "new" systems in North America in 10 years were Panama (Alstom 3-car rolling stock) and Dominican Republic (Alstom Metropolis rolling stock, the only photo I can find shows a 3-car set too.) Both which both appear to be smaller systems.

There have been 9 light rail systems built since, which have also been some of the most expensive, least used systems in the US.

Trump has axed all transit funding, so that might be the end of Light Rail construction not already approved in the US for the next 8 years, which means only systems in Canada will be likely be on the list of light rail systems being built.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

The 4 track lines in NYC are all cut and cover construction. It would mean a much larger tunnel to build a 4 track configuration as a bore. Skytrain is already faster than much of the NYC subway anyways, so this is kind of pointless. Building bigger stations would be much cheaper.

I don't think anyone is going to do 4 tracks along Broadway. An express train would probably stop at most stations along VCC to Alma any way. The low volume stations are all along the existing line.

However if they were what would make sense is two tracks stacked on top of two tracks. The Burrard tunnel is stacked and given how narrow skytrain is I think a two on top two on bottom would be the more efficient. Side platforms could be used. Run the express on the lower level with roughed in platforms should the need come up to use them in the future.

[Bdawe]

The thing about quad track New York subways was that the 1900-1920 period when they were mostly built was a secular minimum for relative construction costs, and the subways were built as upgrades from existing elevated lines which were already well patronized.

[Reecemartin]

[Deleted]

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Alex Mackinnon

Basically none. I can't think of any city other than NYC that does the whole 4 track setup. Everywhere else generally just does a parallel line. If you want it to be faster, then you build less stations.

Yeah, I was just thinking of some parallel line systems with express trains bypassing cars that stop at every station like in that new line out in Seoul.

[teriyaki]

Can't think of any new Metro builds that have "express" trains either.

Even in places like China where they have been building Metro's like no tomorrow with money falling from the sky, serving population sizes exponentially larger than ours does not build 4-track metro's.