YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[Canadian74]

Originally Posted by sacrifice333

Except the move to 10-abreast has already started on these orders...

It's for tour operators/charter airlines. Mainline carriers will maintain 3-3-3

[Gordon]

Will Hong Kiong airlines be all economy with their A350s

[POCO]

Originally Posted by Gordon

Will Hong Kiong airlines be all economy with their A350s

They'll likely have a business class. They do on their A330s. Here is a link to the seat map of that:

http://www.seatplans.com/airlines/hong-kong-airlines/a330-200-36

I'm not sure if they'll introduce a new business class product with the A350.

I'm flying a few routes within China in the next few months in economy. I'll report back on impressions vs WS and AC.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

It's a ways out, but I wonder if we'll get a HNL-YVR route on Hawaiian Airlines Metal when they get their A321neos later this year.

Would love to see Hawaiian (back?) at YVR. Not sure they will though, there's a LOT of competition on the YVR-Hawaii routes already.

[LeftCoaster]

A Turkish user on A.net has said that the CAA offered 3x weekly flights to TK for IST-YVR but Turkish rejected the deal and is holding out for 5xPW.

http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1344727&p=19392247#p19392247

This makes no sense to me, I don't know why they wouldn't take 3 in the meantime and ask for 5 as the route develops.

Anyone have any further insight into this?

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

A Turkish user on A.net has said that the CAA offered 3x weekly flights to TK for IST-YVR but Turkish rejected the deal and is holding out for 5xPW.

http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1344727&p=19392247#p19392247

This makes no sense to me, I don't know why they wouldn't take 3 in the meantime and ask for 5 as the route develops.

Anyone have any further insight into this?

It's just possible ... (and don't ask me how) that Turkey's spiral down into Islamism under Recep Erdogan may figure into this....... (IST is not a secure place right now).
Other than that, maybe TK thinks that if they settle for 3x per week, they'll get stuck at 3x per week and no more..... a real mystery .... and IST would have been so great to have...

[ACT7]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

It's just possible ... (and don't ask me how) that Turkey's spiral down into Islamism under Recep Erdogan may figure into this....... (IST is not a secure place right now).
Other than that, maybe TK thinks that if they settle for 3x per week, they'll get stuck at 3x per week and no more..... a real mystery .... and IST would have been so great to have...

Considering AC just scrapped IST, it's unlikely you'll see any exapansion to/from Turkey to Canada in the short-term.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by twoNeurons

It's a ways out, but I wonder if we'll get a HNL-YVR route on Hawaiian Airlines Metal when they get their A321neos later this year.

Not likely to ever see Hawaiian to YVR. Compared to UA, AS, DL, And AA; HA is quite a bit more expensive. It's also used a lot by Hawaiians getting to mainland as opposed to the others that bring mainlanders to Hawaii for vacation. The HA yield profile suggests they would have a hard time being price competitive considering the US govt has 80-100 in taxes.

Originally Posted by sacrifice333

Except the move to 10-abreast has already started on these orders...

As others have stated the 10 abreast is only for charter configuration.

Originally Posted by Gordon

Will Hong Kiong airlines be all economy with their A350s

All transoceanic airlines have a significant portion of their revenue from front cabin services. Look at what all economy 763s is doing to WS yields out of LGW. At a minimum WS Plus needs to up the service levels to true mainline premium economy standards (biz class meal, priority services, etc.) like at mainline airlines across both the Atlantic and pacific.

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

This makes no sense to me, I don't know why they wouldn't take 3 in the meantime and ask for 5 as the route develops.

Anyone have any further insight into this?

TK 's big fear is that at some point the world regulatory bodies will lump them in with the ME3 as far as global carriers with 90% connection traffic. If they accepted 3/wk now, the option to expand to 5/wk might never present itself.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Cage

TK 's big fear is that at some point the world regulatory bodies will lump them in with the ME3 as far as global carriers with 90% connection traffic. If they accepted 3/wk now, the option to expand to 5/wk might never present itself.

Is that just based on their large fleet size? Or their location?? They are Star Alliance, so I wonder where the problem is. I think they should take the 3x / week to YVR, and run with it.

[Cage]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Is that just based on their large fleet size? Or their location?? They are Star Alliance, so I wonder where the problem is. I think they should take the 3x / week to YVR, and run with it.

Traffic composition and flow are the two big reasons why TK might get fitted for an ME3 black hat. Prior to the Turkish coup, they had more international destinations out of IST than LH has out of FRA.

While they are in Star, TK's computer systems and facilities at Ataturk leave a lot to be desired for full Star connectivity. They do not enter into joint ventures with alliance partners and do not take any leadership roles in alliance operations.

Prior to the Turkish coup, a case could be made for AC and TK to form a joint venture with AC doing YUL-IST, TK doing YVR-IST, and both companies doing YYZ-IST.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Cage

Traffic composition and flow are the two big reasons why TK might get fitted for an ME3 black hat. Prior to the Turkish coup, they had more international destinations out of IST than LH has out of FRA.

While they are in Star, TK's computer systems and facilities at Ataturk leave a lot to be desired for full Star connectivity. They do not enter into joint ventures with alliance partners and do not take any leadership roles in alliance operations.

Prior to the Turkish coup, a case could be made for AC and TK to form a joint venture with AC doing YUL-IST, TK doing YVR-IST, and both companies doing YYZ-IST.

Looks as if YVR can count TK out, in that case. It would have been nice to have another airline. And TK has so much metal waiting to be flown right now.
Too bad they have this "attitude" and too bad about Recep Erdogan. I guess YVR - in Europe - will have to content itself with the Big 4, (LHR, AMS, FRA, CDG) and no more.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Is that just based on their large fleet size? Or their location?? They are Star Alliance, so I wonder where the problem is. I think they should take the 3x / week to YVR, and run with it.

All tourism to Turkey is in the crapper thanks to the unrest and heavyhanded government crackdowns there.

[Klazu]

Originally Posted by whatnext

All tourism to Turkey is in the crapper thanks to the unrest and heavyhanded government crackdowns there.

It's no wonder since the coup is still ongoing. I don't know why would anyone want to fly to Turkey right now. Also Europe is hurting a lot in terms of tourism right now, France especially. Who would like to line up to Eiffel Tower inside bullet proof walls. Oh Europe...

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by Cage

Traffic composition and flow are the two big reasons why TK might get fitted for an ME3 black hat. Prior to the Turkish coup, they had more international destinations out of IST than LH has out of FRA.

While they are in Star, TK's computer systems and facilities at Ataturk leave a lot to be desired for full Star connectivity. They do not enter into joint ventures with alliance partners and do not take any leadership roles in alliance operations.

I think Turkish is very VERY ME3 in it's composition, but it's inclusion in *A is the one reason I think they may have a shot at more slots into Canada, as it will benefit AC to an extent.

And while I guess you could argue it may hit ACs new India service, IST is actually more out of the way to DEL than going via China and rates to India are already ROCK bottom through PVG, PEK and CAN so they're not really losing much by opening up YVR to IST.

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Too bad they have this "attitude" and too bad about Recep Erdogan. I guess YVR - in Europe - will have to content itself with the Big 4, (LHR, AMS, FRA, CDG) and no more.

And MUC, DUB, ZRH, GLA, MAN, LGW, KEF...

Honestly YVR is pretty well served to Europe, aside form a few vanity routes like MAD, FCO or CPH I don't know where else I would realistically expect YVR to connect to in Europe.

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by Klazu

It's no wonder since the coup is still ongoing. I don't know why would anyone want to fly to Turkey right now. Also Europe is hurting a lot in terms of tourism right now, France especially. Who would like to line up to Eiffel Tower inside bullet proof walls. Oh Europe...

My SO and I spent a week in Paris last summer and decided to go to the Eiffel Tower on our last evening in the city (and the most beautiful weather of the trip). We arrived and saw large crowds around the entrance to buy tickets and assumed that everyone in the city had the same idea as us after a rainy week. After waiting a few minutes in a stationary line, seemingly without anybody being let in, I noticed that all of the stairwells down from the Eiffel Tower were now in use and there was a solid stream of people coming down. We tried to circle around to another entrance and noticed that people were being searched as they exited the fenced in tower area and the vibe was weird. We decided to nope out of there and find a restaurant on the Seine to watch the sun set. As were were walking away it seemed like every police car and van in Paris screeched up and the mood crackled with the beginnings of panic as people started to ask what was going on. This was just a couple of weeks after the Nice attack on Basile Day. In the end, we never did learn what had happened.

[casper]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

I think Turkish is very VERY ME3 in it's composition, but it's inclusion in *A is the one reason I think they may have a shot at more slots into Canada, as it will benefit AC to an extent.

And while I guess you could argue it may hit ACs new India service, IST is actually more out of the way to DEL than going via China and rates to India are already ROCK bottom through PVG, PEK and CAN so they're not really losing much by opening up YVR to IST.



And MUC, DUB, ZRH, GLA, MAN, LGW, KEF...

Honestly YVR is pretty well served to Europe, aside form a few vanity routes like MAD, FCO or CPH I don't know where else I would realistically expect YVR to connect to in Europe.

I would like to suggest Lisbon. However it is a long shot. TAP is coming back to Toronto. They are Star Alliance and are not part of that anti-trust deal that has Lufthansa, Air Canada and United. Other than Turkish it is probably the only European star alliance member not in bed with Lufthansa. The primary investor was previously involved with the startup of WestJet.

If I had to guess I would give it one or two years to get Toronto established, then add Montreal and follow up with Vancouver in a few years.

[POCO]

It's really too bad about Turkey. I heard they have some amazing beaches and really incredible cultural/historical sites. FCO would be a really nice destination... maybe WS once they up their WB fleet.

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by whatnext

All tourism to Turkey is in the crapper thanks to the unrest and heavyhanded government crackdowns there.

I'm glad I saw Istanbul when I did, a few years back. It's such an awe-inspiring city. Those easy days are a thing of the past, now.

[SpongeG]

not YVR news but...

this was a "sponsored" thing on my facebook just now. How long will this one last?

Canada Jetlines Ltd is based in Vancouver and Southern Ontario, the airline will offer ultra low-cost flights throughout Canada, the United States, Mexico and the Caribbean. $JET

http://business.financialpost.com/business-trends/skys-the-limit-for-ultra-low-cost-canada-airline


Jetlines has ordered new technology Boeing 737MAX aircraft, as depicted, for delivery in 2023.

Canada Jetlines will use only Boeing 737s, which reduces maintenance and pilot training costs. One seat class means being able put more passengers aboard by eliminating the roomy business or executive class section. And by going “point-to-point” with direct flights instead of the major airline’s hub-and-spoke system with connecting flights and multiple stops, the airline saves on fuel costs.

“Point to point is more efficient,” says Scott. “It uses less miles to travel, so we can lower the cost to the consumer by going one point to another. It’s better on the environment and it also saves time and losing your bag too because there’s no connection point.”

By using secondary airports in cities like Abbotsford, Hamilton and Kitchener-Waterloo, Canada Jetlines will save on airport fees and realize other cost reductions, which will be passed on to consumers with lower fares.

[SFUVancouver]

^ I will be beyond shocked if Canada JetLines is around to take delivery of so much as a single 737Max. People don't want to fly between secondary airports, or at least not enough to reliably fill 737s on point to point direct transcontinental flights. Best of luck to them, I hope that I'm wrong.