Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[Reecemartin]

This development about passenger service to Port Moody is VERY interesting, in fact I've had lots of thoughts about the potential for this ever since I found out about these interchange stations. Considering that they aren't being use most of the day, it could be very interesting even an hourly service all day 2 way would be incredible and it could certainly open the door to other similar services in the future.

I agree that newer DMU's would be better but, if that prohibits such a service then maybe it's best to use the older cars and update down the road. Anyone have links etc about this?

[Hooknose]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Interesting idea.
Haven't heard of it before.

Is that as a supplement to WCE or replacing WCE?

Budd cars wouldn't be big enough for the morning and afternoon commuter demands and I can't see forcing people to ride SkyTrain then transfer at Port Moody as a viable replacement for WCE.

I could see it as a supplement to WCE.

If that proceeds, I could also see for something similar on the SRY to Scott Road Station (with a tie-in at Newton LRT).

PS - we don't have GO (Government of Ontario) trains here in BC.

I have called th system "go trains" since they were put in. It is a lot simpler than "West Coast Express".

The idea that I heard was that the WCE would continue in its current format and schedule. The first WCE leaves Mission around 5.25 am. The last one leaves at 7.25

To catch the 5.25 you have to be up at 4:30

The first one leaves Vancouver at 3:40 and the last one at 6:20.

So what do you do if you a) don't have a car and b) have an appointment in Vacouver at 12:00 for one hour.

You wait 3 hours after the 8:40 arrival of the last train for the appointment and then you wait 2 hour and forty minutes for the first one to leave after your appointment,

Now ... if on the other hand, "This BUDD's for you" you can leave at any time and connect at port Moody and get to just about anywhere on the existing system and get home when it is convenient.

The real advantage of RR is many fold. a) cheap, b) many trains, no reservation needed, and c) RR does not fight with rush hour traffic because it is separate which means predictable.

If I paid Mission prices for real estate and had RR to Vancouver, I would be much happier and so would the other 100,000 people who suddenly realized the favourable mix.

So the answer is supplementary. Just a couple or three or four cars. It would start at 7: 45

The current trains take 50 minutes to reach Port Moody. So one BUDD car is service every two hours, back and forth on a shuttle.

Two is hourly service. and four is 30 minute service. from 7:45 am to about 5 pm (the regular WCE's hot Moody at 4 pm to 6:44 pm.)

At 4 pm, the service switches from a 4 car system from Mission to a 2 car system which can run to midnight.

1 8 hour shift with 4 cars and 1 8 hour shift with 2 cars.

That's 6 jobs for 6 drivers and use for some aging BUDDs and you have RR all the way along the North Fraser to Mission, from 5:445 am to midnight.

I would move.

[Sheba]

Originally Posted by Pinion

CNV Mayor is officially asking Translink for a skytrain to Lonsdale (10+ years from now):

From the Buzzer Blog

Hi there, this is not a current or future project for TransLink at this point. The story came from a North Shore Mayor who would very much like this, however, our next major project are outlined in the 10-Year Vision. You can view those upgrades and service expansions here: http://tenyearvision.translink.ca/
Thanks!

It sounds more and more like a fantasy project.

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by Sheba

From the Buzzer Blog
It sounds more and more like a fantasy project.

Of course it's not a "current" project - but these things have to start somewhere.

[s211]

Originally Posted by Sheba

From the Buzzer Blog


It sounds more and more like a fantasy project.

I don't know if it's at all possible to be more of a fantasy, being so off-the-charts already.

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

Of course it's not a "current" project - but these things have to start somewhere.

Exactly. This Mayor brought it up as an idea worth discussing today and also made sure to attach it to an important issue (growing congestion and need for a "3rd crossing" of any sort), and successfully popularized the discussion. This basically guarantees that a North Shore SkyTrain extension will be a discussion item until the day it actually happens.

Everything had to start somewhere, and there are various ways to give something a start. The current Broadway Extension started out as an actual component of the original Millennium Line, but went unfunded (and probably had beginnings before that), same with the Evergreen Extension. Surrey's Light Rail push had grassroots beginnings, formed out of a distaste for SkyTrain expansion (albeit a very misguided one) - and the related grassroots push for SkyTrain to Langley is the result of the SkyTrain alternative having been studied and found viable. The Canada Line (RAV) line had really early beginnings, with the long-time interest to connect both Richmond and the Airport. And I'm pretty sure everyone still has the SFU gondola idea in the back of their heads and that discussion will return (I'm just waiting for someone at SFU to finally say something... damn, where is everyone!?)

The current Mayor of North Van has laid down an excellent framework upon which we can have this discussion. At the end of the day something WILL need to be done for the North Shore. Unless everyone is suddenly cool with the North Shore economy slowing down, money will need to be spent, whether it's on a SkyTrain tunnel or a new bridge. I look forward to whatever discussions come up when it is time.

[Alpine]

Originally Posted by jbrizzy

I'm posting this over from the River District thread where the topic of bus service to the area came up...

Here's a map of the closest bus routes and their destinations, as well as most of the streets in the River District mapped out in white. The two bolder streets should be the more commercial ones.

How do you make a map like this, with the overlays? Do you export the shapefiles of the to something like Inkscape, Photoshop CC?

[dandor31]

I've been thinking about how to improve service in the area as well. An additional consideration I've had is making Rupert/Kerr a more complete North-South route by extending the current 27 route but still connecting with the Expo Line at Joyce. It takes on part of the 26 route and is extended the entire way down Kerr to the River district. I don't imagine this would be that difficult to implement. The only losses are the 26 along Rosemount Dr, but I don't imagine it is a heavy use area. Thoughts?

[Large Cat]

Originally Posted by dandor31

I've been thinking about how to improve service in the area as well. An additional consideration I've had is making Rupert/Kerr a more complete North-South route by extending the current 27 route but still connecting with the Expo Line at Joyce. It takes on part of the 26 route and is extended the entire way down Kerr to the River district. I don't imagine this would be that difficult to implement. The only losses are the 26 along Rosemount Dr, but I don't imagine it is a heavy use area. Thoughts?

Good map. I really like the idea of extending the 27 to give it a longer N-S route. Two things to consider:

-it might be desirable to work in a revision of the 29 as well to make that service more useful, perhaps connecting it to your revised 26 in one big U. That way, sections of the River District all the way to Elliot or even Victoria could get N-S coverage, which is currently very unwieldy/inaccessible given the huge walk up the hill to Harrison Loop or Fraserview.
-if E-W service to Metrotown along 54th is ever established, it could take over the crappy "speed bump" section of the current 26 to make the 26 a bit faster.

Also, we have to consider revisions to these buses in concert with eventual revisions to the Burnaby buses south of Metrotown, which also need reworking.

[jbrizzy]

Originally Posted by Alpine

How do you make a map like this, with the overlays? Do you export the shapefiles of the to something like Inkscape, Photoshop CC?

I just screenshotted the map and then imported it in to Illustrator. If I knew a way to export the map as a file that would be way better.

In response to the above idea, considering that Champlain Heights CC is located along the mentioned Rosemont sectioned, I think that would still need to be incorporated in to the network.

[AMTDGT]

Originally Posted by s211

I don't know if it's at all possible to be more of a fantasy, being so off-the-charts already.

You are probably right but never under estimate politics. Political decisions very often don't make economic sense, and often over rule professional planners.

We have friends on the north shore who complain about terrible transit service across the water to Vancouver. They are very unhappy that their tax money goes to train service to all the neighbouring communities from Vancouver but not to them. A tunnel to extend the Expo line east and down in a loop under the shallow part of the harbour with a station at the Quay probably would be under a Billion. With future stations at say Pemberton and Park Royal, using the railway row, I could easily see this as a campaign promise.

Add that to reduced sea bus frequency which saves salaries, maintainence costs and pollution from diesel engines.

Now are there any senior level government politicians that are in trouble over on the north shore

[Reecemartin]

True political will can move mountains, just look at the current Ontario transit expansions.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by Reecemartin

True political will can move mountains, just look at the current Ontario transit expansions.

The problem is that Metro Vancouver needs to all vote Liberal or NDP, and that party has to win, otherwise we get hamstrung by no spending. Since the North and West Vancouver areas Vote Liberal, and CoV votes NDP, it's not happening.



This is the problem for the foreseeable future with expanding rapid transit. Right now, even a Hastings line is 2/3 NDP area, and thus wouldn't likely be built.

This is why Translink at least "Works" the way it does. If the province was entirely in control of it, we'd only get projects that are entirely within NDP or Liberal areas. If the Mayors were entirely in charge of it, we would get nothing, ever.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by AMTDGT

You are probably right but never under estimate politics. Political decisions very often don't make economic sense, and often over rule professional planners.

We have friends on the north shore who complain about terrible transit service across the water to Vancouver. They are very unhappy that their tax money goes to train service to all the neighbouring communities from Vancouver but not to them. A tunnel to extend the Expo line east and down in a loop under the shallow part of the harbour with a station at the Quay probably would be under a Billion. With future stations at say Pemberton and Park Royal, using the railway row, I could easily see this as a campaign promise.

Add that to reduced sea bus frequency which saves salaries, maintainence costs and pollution from diesel engines.

Now are there any senior level government politicians that are in trouble over on the north shore

Skytrain from Waterfront to Lonsdale quay would allow the seabuses to be re-purposed, since there no longer a need to run them between Lonsdale and Waterfront.

Deep cove < > Waterfront?
Ambleside < > Waterfront?
Bowen < > Waterfront?

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

Skytrain from Waterfront to Lonsdale quay would allow the seabuses to be re-purposed, since there no longer a need to run them between Lonsdale and Waterfront.

Deep cove < > Waterfront?
Ambleside < > Waterfront?
Bowen < > Waterfront?

TransLink was planning to test an extended route. Not sure what happened to it.

[ilikeredheads]

Originally Posted by dandor31

I've been thinking about how to improve service in the area as well. An additional consideration I've had is making Rupert/Kerr a more complete North-South route by extending the current 27 route but still connecting with the Expo Line at Joyce. It takes on part of the 26 route and is extended the entire way down Kerr to the River district. I don't imagine this would be that difficult to implement. The only losses are the 26 along Rosemount Dr, but I don't imagine it is a heavy use area. Thoughts?

I think buses will have major difficulty going up/down the steep slope along Kerr before and after SW Marine Dr.

[Millennium2002]

I can see an extended service to Ambleside as being possibly feasible, but any service beyond that may suffer from a number of cost-benefit challenges:

• low population densities beyond Ambleside
• slow travel times, unless using more exotic and expensive designs like wave-piercing hydrofoils or catamarans
• higher costs from a combination of higher fuel consumption, longer staffing needs, increased number of boats, more advanced technologies, etc.
• higher costs imply higher fares, which may make people nervous about jumping in

*****

As for the Champlain Heights and Fraserlands routes, I designed this awhile back. The inspiration came after I saw that there was a C5 route dedicated solely to the Suncrest area. It doesn't really seem that useful just ending there by itself, so I thought... maybe I can make a longer route out of it that somehow connected to the Champlain Heights area.

Note that the concept relies on some assumptions:

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?mid=1cbyEqhQSKBhTOw3cCSaCsf4PkCk

• There is an interchange between four of the routes in Suncrest: 100, 116, and the two new routes.
• The shape of the new routes may look odd and a little indirect but is meant to maximize the concurrency between the old and new routes. This avoids opening a dispute with Burnaby over a re-design that may be seen as generally benefitting Vancouver residents. For this very same reason, no bus will lay over at the new Suncrest interchange.
• The two new routes meet at Champlain Heights. This is to placate community concerns about loss of connectivity to that local shopping centre.
• I added as a last-minute thing the idea of having either the 22 or 29 (or both!) routes extended to River District.
• Any possible extension to the route 22 requires that the Knight and Marine interchange be upgraded. Coincidentally, the city will be upgrading it soon to allow northwest traffic!
• Ideally, duplicate service along Marine would be minimized or eliminated by running buses along Kent Avenue. Unfortunately, the road is blocked off in various places to prevent shortcutting... It remains to be seen whether this can be changed.
• There is a choice to be made between the 22 or the 29. The former can theoretically allow for direct FTN service to downtown; the latter is cheaper to implement, but requires more drastic route deviations and is less frequent.
• Better connectivity can be further achieved by having an exchange where Victoria meets Marine; this would allow people to conveniently switch to the Victoria Drive trolleybuses heading north. One of the new routes is currently drawn to use that as a terminus, although it can be changed if need be (e.g. by interlining with the 29).
• It may also be possible/desirable to move the Suncrest interchange into the Fraserlands so that the connections are easier to get to for local residents. This would require altering the current town plan, and may force the new routes to split into two (for four new routes!) so that people can better identify where their buses are headed.

[LeftCoaster]

I don't think an Ambleside route would make any sense, there are just so many busses running Marine Dr. that go downtown so much faster than a boat ever could.

Bowen might have a bit more of a draw for commuters, since they are already getting on a boat then transferring to a bus so a one seat ride could be enticing, but I just don't know if the commuter base is there.

[oy1234]

Every so often I see (or float) ideas of adding gondolas to the transportation network here in Vancouver. It often quickly gets dismissed by most people (it's not hilly!!), but it's an interesting and affordable mode of ROW transportation which can integrate into the current system which includes everything from bikes, cars, walking, taxis, buses, skytrain, etc.....

La Paz just added a new gondola line into their existing system and had over 40,000 riders the first day. They expect with this new line the system will increase to over 100,000 riders per day.

More information:

http://gondolaproject.com/2017/03/07/blue-line-linea-azul-transports-41000-passengers-in-one-day/

http://gondolaproject.com/2017/03/03/la-...nsit-urban-gondola-blue-line-linea-azul/

[s211]

Sweet Jeebuz, people. There's a transit fantasy thread; use the bloody thing.