PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread IX

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by Londonee

I totally agree, it's a complete PR move on the part of the soda industry. "See, we were forced to lay off 100 people in Philadelphia - so it's a terrible, job-sucking idea, Portland."

Also, the math seems odd. An article just came out that the Soda Tax produced way more revenue than the city was actually expecting. My guess is they looked at average soda sales/month - then reduced it marginally to account for the hit in demand and came up with an expected figure for budgeting and forecast reasons. Since the revenue from the tax far exceeded that figure, my bet is that sales were barely affected.

On personal levels, has this tax really shaped anyone's buying decisions on here? Like, has anyone looked at the $1.89 20oz CocaCola at WaWa and gone...ya know what, since it's now going to be $2.09 I'm going to grab a Dasani instead.

All of the anecdotal evidence I've heard is that soda sales, at least in old City, have not been affected.

A much better measure is the tax revenue figures. I'm sure they discounted forecasts marginally for reduced usage and location bleed (to NJ), but tax revenue has outperformed. That completely refutes the B.S. coming from the soda industry. Also previously stated was that while distribution channels to the city may well have changed, regionally, there would be a remapping to distribute to where the overflow would occur.

Sin tax, people. People are ALWAYS gonna drink, smoke, eat fast food, drink soda and screw. It's what governments rely on.

[Gonzo the Great]

Originally Posted by Redddog

All of the anecdotal evidence I've heard is that soda sales, at least in old City, have not been affected.

Sin tax, people. People are ALWAYS gonna drink, smoke, eat fast food, drink soda and screw. It's what governments rely on.

An old economics prof of mine ( whom I believe was high most of the time ) once stated , " IF business A makes 30mil. in year
one and 50mil. in year two , the projection to share holders is that they will make 70 mil. in year three . But if they only make
60 mil. they came a loss of of ten mil..... rather than a gain of an additional ten mil ...... sound familiar

[1487]

Originally Posted by skyscraper

There are a great many absurd things here, not the least of which is that taxes like this are used in a way that encourages a certain behavior. But then the revenue generated is used for something else entirely when it should be used, if you are going to do this at all, to combat the problem on a different front. For example, if you want people to stop smoking, you tax tobacco products and then use the money for smoking cessation programs.
In this case, what the government is doing is saying they want people to stop drinking sugary drinks, but instead of using that revenue to fund health insurance or something, they are using it for pre-k education. So what they are saying is that they want either healthy or educated people, but not both.

so having people healthier and better educated are counterproductive goals? Really? First I'm hearing of that.

[1487]

Originally Posted by Redddog

All of the anecdotal evidence I've heard is that soda sales, at least in old City, have not been affected.

A much better measure is the tax revenue figures. I'm sure they discounted forecasts marginally for reduced usage and location bleed (to NJ), but tax revenue has outperformed. That completely refutes the B.S. coming from the soda industry. Also previously stated was that while distribution channels to the city may well have changed, regionally, there would be a remapping to distribute to where the overflow would occur.

Sin tax, people. People are ALWAYS gonna drink, smoke, eat fast food, drink soda and screw. It's what governments rely on.

yes, many years ago the tax by the drink tax was supposed to dry up Center city and force people to start partying in Camden or Delaware country instead. Don't think that ever happened.

[summersm343]

Adaptimmune opens U.S. headquarters at the Navy Yard to develop cancer therapies

Adaptimmune Therapeutics, a biopharmaceutical company developing T-cell therapies to treat cancer, opened its new U.S. headquarters Wednesday at the Navy Yard in South Philadelphia.

The 47,400-square foot building will accommodate clinical drug development and a manufacturing plant. The Oxford, U.K.-based company employs 92 in Philadelphia, and will grow to 120 by the end of 2017. Adaptimmune has 201 employees in the U.K.

The opening of the new building "underscores our continued commitment to Philadelphia and the region, as well as our unwavering focus on delivering important cell therapy products to cancer patients," said chief executive officer James Noble. "This new facility supports the advancement of our promising pipeline through scalable, cost-effective, clinical and commercial manufacturing."

Read more here:
http://www.philly.com/philly/business/ph...vy-Yard-to-develop-cancer-therapies.html

[summersm343]

Marcellus Shale exports from Philly jump in 2016

The number of ships exporting Marcellus Shale natural-gas liquids out of Philadelphia’s port quintupled in 2016, according to the Maritime Exchange, reflecting an increased flow of propane and other materials through Sunoco Logistics Partners' Marcus Hook terminal.

Exports of the natural-gas liquids, mostly ethane, increased to 34 vessels last year, up from six ships in 2015. The volumes are likely to increase this year if Sunoco completes a scheduled third-quarter expansion of its Mariner East pipeline system that would increase its capacity from 70,000 barrels a day to 345,000 barrels.

Maritime Exchange officials expect the annual traffic of ethane vessels will eventually exceed 100 ships.

http://www.philly.com/philly/business/energy/Marcellus-Shale-exports-from-Philly-jump-2016.html

[br323206]

Originally Posted by skyscraper

There are a great many absurd things here, not the least of which is that taxes like this are used in a way that encourages a certain behavior. But then the revenue generated is used for something else entirely when it should be used, if you are going to do this at all, to combat the problem on a different front. For example, if you want people to stop smoking, you tax tobacco products and then use the money for smoking cessation programs.
In this case, what the government is doing is saying they want people to stop drinking sugary drinks, but instead of using that revenue to fund health insurance or something, they are using it for pre-k education. So what they are saying is that they want either healthy or educated people, but not both.

Several other people have already said this but they didn't create this tax to stop people from drinking soda. It was very transparent that the point is to pay for parks and rec centers and pre-K education. That's how it was sold and that's how it will be used. I don't know why people keep asserting that Kenney pushed this as an idea to stop people from drinking soda. To use an infamous expression, those are alternative facts.

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by hammersklavier

It isn't quite so simple. The Hargreaves Penn's Landing plan is supposed to be a framework for leveraging public investment into private investment. The green spaces are public investments; the "towers" you see mark available space for private investment.

Of course, Penn's Landing has been a money sink for generations. But I am somewhat hopeful that this thing can happen -- complete the caps and release parcels for private development one by one. Master-planned neighborhoods often take a long time to execute (they're still working on Hudson Yards, Mission Bay, DC's Navy Yard, and similar).

I'm hopeful on this one too. With funding commitments and other elements, this time seems different. It would be so huge for the city. Plus, I want to live in a nice condo on the river and hope one is built...

[kingtut]

Wu Xi App Tech also at the Navy Yard is on a hiring spree . With energy , logistics distribution and Bio / pharma industries 2017 should be a very positive year for employment growth for Philly .

[PHL10]

Originally Posted by 1487

yes, many years ago the tax by the drink tax was supposed to dry up Center city and force people to start partying in Camden or Delaware country instead. Don't think that ever happened.

True so lets just tax the sh-t out of anything and everything until bad stuff starts to really happen and then we will know. Philadelphia's noncompetitive nature wasn't the result of one single policy but a culmination of polices over decades that created the environment where we currently exist.

I just think it's that same backward thinking to not take advantage of some of this resurgence to get our fiscal house in order as opposed to continually searching for the next thing to tax in an effort to create the next entitlement program.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by PHL10

True so lets just tax the sh-t out of anything and everything until bad stuff starts to really happen and then we will know. Philadelphia's noncompetitive nature wasn't the result of one single policy but a culmination of polices over decades that created the environment where we currently exist.

I just think it's that same backward thinking to not take advantage of some of this resurgence to get our fiscal house in order as opposed to continually searching for the next thing to tax in an effort to create the next entitlement program.

The longer we wait to ride the momentum, the greater likelihood by the time heads come out of asses, the momentum will have dissipated.

Philly has gained momentum in spite of its policies. But we still lag. Amazing how anti business interests can still justify themselves in the face of those facts.

[Milksteak]

For those saying the big bad soda companies are just slashing jobs to make a point, here is an article about a supermarket cutting 5-6k employee hours per week:

http://www.philly.com/philly/opinion/201..._soda_tax_will_be_bad_for_city_jobs.html

As was alluded to above, the city needs to get its fiscal house in order before slapping taxes on random products. What's next? Tax takeout food or dine in restaurants? Surely those are as non essential as soda.

[TempleGuy1000]

Originally Posted by Milksteak

For those saying the big bad soda companies are just slashing jobs to make a point, here is an article about a supermarket cutting 5-6k employee hours per week:

http://www.philly.com/philly/opinion/201..._soda_tax_will_be_bad_for_city_jobs.html

As was alluded to above, the city needs to get its fiscal house in order before slapping taxes on random products. What's next? Tax takeout food or dine in restaurants? Surely those are as non essential as soda.

What if... over 250 teachers and early care assists have been hired to work the new program!? I know, shocking! Wonder why the Soda Company Propghanda from the Daily News doesn't mention that?

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2017/03...created-over-250-jobs-for-pre-k-program/

Other cities are following our lead: http://www.king5.com/mb/news/local/seatt...-propsal-what-it-will-cost-you/411871456

Sorry, but the city needs pre-k and extra tax revenue for everything, more then I need my 1.5 cents per ounce of soda.

[Milksteak]

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000

What if... over 250 teachers and early care assists have been hired to work the new program!? I know, shocking! Wonder why the Soda Company Propghanda from the Daily News doesn't mention that?

http://philadelphia.cbslocal.com/2017/03...created-over-250-jobs-for-pre-k-program/

Other cities are following our lead: http://www.king5.com/mb/news/local/seatt...-propsal-what-it-will-cost-you/411871456

Sorry, but the city needs pre-k and extra tax revenue for everything, more then I need my 1.5 cents per ounce of soda.

You've taken everything said and boiled it down to "soda company propaganda", so clearly this discussion has hit a wall. The soda tax isn't going anywhere, I can only hope that the pre-k incentive is a success, and that the jobs gained = the jobs lost. I also hope that those losing jobs/hours due to this tax are able to find work.

[br323206]

Originally Posted by Milksteak

You've taken everything said and boiled it down to "soda company propaganda", so clearly this discussion has hit a wall. The soda tax isn't going anywhere, I can only hope that the pre-k incentive is a success, and that the jobs gained = the jobs lost. I also hope that those losing jobs/hours due to this tax are able to find work.

The thing is, economists on both the left and the right support this move. There is near universal agreement that these kinds of investments are good for a city.

Also as an anecdote, I was a fat kid because my parents let me have soda pretty much whenever I wanted. I wish there was a disincentive for them at the time.

[PHL10]

Originally Posted by TempleGuy1000

Sorry, but the city needs pre-k and extra tax revenue for everything, more then I need my 1.5 cents per ounce of soda.

…or more than you need 4% of your income, or more than you need the temporary/permanent property tax increase, or more than you need the extra sales tax, or more than you need the liquor by the drink tax, or more than you need the amusement tax on your sports tickets, or more than you need the hotel room surcharge, or more than you need the 2% property transfer tax….these are all specific Philadelphia taxes that aren’t paid outside our municipality by the way but by all menas, let’s keep adding more….for the children of course. Do you think the working mom getting laid off from Shoprite thinks it’s worth her job? Do you think the Pepsi driver getting his hours cut think it’s worth his livelihood?

I’m not pro-soda, I don’t drink the stuff but the notion that the City taxes all this extra stuff and the very predictable, resulting negative impact is blamed by the pols on “Big __________” taking it out on the little guy is a little galling.

I’m out before Summers start cracking heads for this sidebar conversation!

[br323206]

On another taxation note, from PBJ:

"Currently Philadelphia residents incur a 3.9004 percent wage tax and 3.4741 percent for non-residents. The new budget drops those to 3.8907 percent and 3.4654 percent."

http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/...y18-budget-proposal-opioid-licenses.html

[summersm343]

Maybe Kenney is reinstating the wage tax deduction?

Currently Philadelphia residents incur a 3.9004 percent wage tax and 3.4741 percent for non-residents. The new budget drops those to 3.8907 percent and 3.4654 percent.

Read more here:
http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/...y18-budget-proposal-opioid-licenses.html

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Pepsi to lay off 80 to 100, blames soda tax

Time to get rid of the tax? No sense in losing hundreds of jobs over this.

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/politics/Pepsi-announces-80-100-layoffs-blames-soda-tax.html

Can a moderator please move this to the propaganda thread?

[jsbrook]

Originally Posted by br323206

On another taxation note, from PBJ:

"Currently Philadelphia residents incur a 3.9004 percent wage tax and 3.4741 percent for non-residents. The new budget drops those to 3.8907 percent and 3.4654 percent."

http://www.bizjournals.com/philadelphia/...y18-budget-proposal-opioid-licenses.html

Glory! For a Philadelphia resident with an annual income of $200,000, this amounts to annual savings of roughly $19. Pointless. What is the shortfall to the government? With such minimal impact, I see no reason to implement this. The government should wait until it can make a meaningful chance. If the amendment on property tax goes through or something else happens that allows anything but the most insignificant, silly de minimis decrease.