YVR Airport & Sea Island Developments Discussion

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by Large Cat

Can confirm. I once waited there for over 45 minutes while my bag failed to show up...luckily I had a long connection. On top of that, the Customs Pre-Clearance area is rather difficult to find when coming from your flight, and then the walk to many of the U.S. flights can be LONG (anything in that long wing near the old terminal that you used to have to take a bus to get to). So try to get a long connection, please.

My rule of thumb for connections is absolutely no less than 45 minutes at US hub airports for same carrier connections with manageable carry-on, and I try for an hour-plus as often as possible. Anything less than an hour is a stressful, tight amount of time to make a connection but it is doable. I've made such connections in IAH, ORD, SFO, SEA, PHX, SLC, DEN, LAX, and MSP with about 45 minutes on the clock and made it through by the skin of my teeth. It's awful to connect with so little time, particularly if you are stuck in the back of the plane and you can just feel the minutes tick away and you know that you are going to have to run your lungs out to make the connection. With that said, with YYZ, honestly, 90 minutes is my minimum and I just as well avoid it whenever possible. I flew about 100k miles last year and deliberately avoided YYZ for all but one (unavoidable) flight. I just hate connecting through Toronto. I'll fly through ORD in a heartbeat over YYZ, and ORD is notorious for its bad connections.

I flew through YYC and its new international terminal on the weekend. I landed at the end of the new pier and got to see first hand what the walk is like. From gate to customs to baggage hall to YYC Link to my departure terminal (A), that all took a while. It felt longer than what we're generally used to in mid-sized Canadian airports, but it wasn't egregious. The YYC Link felt kind of goofy at first, the plastic body creaks, but it did shorten the journey considerably. They did a nice job on the new concourse and baggage hall is beautiful.

[casper]

Originally Posted by Large Cat

Can confirm. I once waited there for over 45 minutes while my bag failed to show up...luckily I had a long connection. On top of that, the Customs Pre-Clearance area is rather difficult to find when coming from your flight, and then the walk to many of the U.S. flights can be LONG (anything in that long wing near the old terminal that you used to have to take a bus to get to). So try to get a long connection, please.

Now that it is the same overhead walkway as international connections it is a bit easier to find. Does involve a lot of walking.

YVR is equally bad if you are doing WestJet. Same path as internal connection and then from the international gate area an into a US customers security point. But it does not open all that early in the morning. Last time I did it coming off an early Victoria flight I had to wait a while until they opened the US connections security clearance.

[SFUVancouver]

One more real-life photo of the new Air Canada livery, with a bonus of the Air Canada retro livery, too.


Source

I think that it looks pretty good. I still like the current/old livery better. The eyeliner looks pretty good from afar, but it looks too large and cartoony on narrow-bodies. I keep going back and forth on my opinion.

The tail is my favourite part of the new design, but the low contrast red on black roundel doesn't really pop in overcast lighting.

[jmt18325]

I'm really going to miss the A321.

[Klazu]

Am I the only one thinking that the new livery looks very much like Delta? I did like the "leaked" white livery more.

[LO 044]

Originally Posted by jmt18325

I'm really going to miss the A321.

I didn't know AC is getting rid of it's 321's.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by LO 044

I didn't know AC is getting rid of it's 321's.

I'm just assuming, since they ordered enough Max jets to replace all of the 320/321s.

[Canadian74]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Am I the only one thinking that the new livery looks very much like Delta? I did like the "leaked" white livery more.

There was no leaked livery, they were fan made fantasy visions

[trofirhen]

Originally Posted by Klazu

Am I the only one thinking that the new livery looks very much like Delta? I did like the "leaked" white livery more.

Like DELTA? I can see your point, a little, but I still think that's stretching it.
From a distance, an approaching plane, maybe. On the tarmac, parked outside the terminal? No IMO.

[casper]

Originally Posted by jmt18325

I'm just assuming, since they ordered enough Max jets to replace all of the 320/321s.

The deliveries are spread out over many years. I would not be surprised if the last Airbus left the fleet 10 years from now.

Air Canada does have some 321 that are less than a year old.

[trofirhen]

Sure, YVR has more international traffic for the moment, largely thanks to our fantastic Asia connections. But don't rest on your laurels. This one's moving up fast. Take a peek.

http://www.airport-world.com/news/genera...gateway-in-us-for-passenger-traffic.html

[SpongeG]

well with the chinese investors leaving the vancouver market for the seattle area they will need the flights to china.

[Chikinlittle]

Originally Posted by jmt18325

I'm really going to miss the A321.

What exactly do you like about the A321? It's nearly the Airbus equivalent to the B757... a long narrow tin can.

[craneSpotter]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Sure, YVR has more international traffic for the moment, largely thanks to our fantastic Asia connections. But don't rest on your laurels. This one's moving up fast. Take a peek.

http://www.airport-world.com/news/genera...gateway-in-us-for-passenger-traffic.html

Looks like SEA will continue with strong growth in 2017...Jan 2017 is up 6.8% over 2016. International up over 16%.

SEA is now the 9th busiest airport in the US (45.7 million). They have also started their North Satellite expansion and renovation project - with 8 new gates.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by Chikinlittle

What exactly do you like about the A321? It's nearly the Airbus equivalent to the B757... a long narrow tin can.

I like the way it looks and it's comfortable.

[jmt18325]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Sure, YVR has more international traffic for the moment, largely thanks to our fantastic Asia connections. But don't rest on your laurels. This one's moving up fast. Take a peek.

http://www.airport-world.com/news/genera...gateway-in-us-for-passenger-traffic.html

Considering the A321 is larger than the Max 9, maybe it won't be leaving at all.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by trofirhen

Fantastic!! Boston, Washington, Miami (and maybe more) year round?!!
That would put YVR firmly in the North American market mainstream! Hope it goes!!
YYZ has Kansas City, and San Antonio, now. Imagine getting those, plus maybe Charlotte (huge banking centre), Orlando, Atlanta, Albuquerque ....

This was all my opinion, let's not go off the rails here.

Originally Posted by craneSpotter

Looks like SEA will continue with strong growth in 2017...Jan 2017 is up 6.8% over 2016. International up over 16%.

SEA is now the 9th busiest airport in the US (45.7 million). They have also started their North Satellite expansion and renovation project - with 8 new gates.

SEA will continue it's strong growth, but it is starting to get very capacity constrained and is not currently far enough along in it's expansion planning to effectively combat this.

Also, worth noting the fleet upgrades being considered.

Delta has a decent amount of new wide bodies on order, however these are to be split between their 8 overseas hubs, whereas ACs widebody expansion is concentrated in 3 with YYZ and YVR receiving the bulk of the new planes.

I still expect YVR to outpace SEAs growth in the near future.

Originally Posted by jmt18325

Considering the A321 is larger than the Max 9, maybe it won't be leaving at all.

I could see a renegotiated maximum plane alotment to Rouge and the newer 321s getting transferred there. Same with the A330s or 787-800s.

[Genauso]

I like the new paint job.

Nothing is forever, and right now it makes me feel like they are space planes from the future.


Here's a great article covering Air Canada:

Air Canada’s Plan of Attack Flies Over America A massive international expansion, attractive hubs for global jetsetters, and now brand new routes across its southern border. by Justin Bachman and Frederic Tomesco February 15, 2017, 12:00 AM PST

There's too much to summarize, but I'll tease you with

Air Canada has a “soft target” of about 50 percent connecting traffic at its hubs, up from its current 41 percent, Smith said. By comparison, Air France-KLM has about 70 percent at its Amsterdam Schiphol hub, while the Persian Gulf trio—Emirates Airline, Etihad Airways, and Qatar Airways Ltd.—all top 90 percent at their respective hubs.

Air Canada’s full-throated foray into long-haul flying has been fueled by a massive fleet renewal program, which includes 25 Boeing Co. 787s, and the migration of older Boeing 767s from its mainline fleet to its low-cost Rouge subsidiary. The carrier also has 12 additional 787s on order, 61 Boeing 737 Max planes that start to arrive later this year, and 45 Bombardier CS300s on tap for 2019 and beyond.

Without off-loading traffic to Rouge, boosting hub traffic (of which Vancouver is one) from 40 to 50% is huge. If the adjustment is only through addition, that's a 50% increase (averaged across YVR, YYZ, YUL)

The article tells the story of Air Canada's strategy in part by explaining it's past and how the new aircraft fit in, and leveraging the advantage of Canadian airports which may not get the operating subsidies American ones do, but they do have some independence.

Air Canada is taking a chance here, it is the most leveraged full-service airline. It's not easy work for a quick reward, and I commend them for trying.

on a related note, the Bombardier C Series which has had its delays, was featured in the Economist magazine. At the same time Flight Global had an article about the C Series and its potential to re-shuffle routes:

Though Air Canada has described its incoming Bombardier CS300s as replacements for Embraer 190s, a top Air Canada executive has suggested the fleet plan could evolve.

Air Canada president of passenger airlines Benjamin Smith says the new Bombardier aircraft could prove as transformative as Boeing 787s, allowing Air Canada to make broader network changes.

During an interview with FlightGlobal at Toronto Pearson International airport on 9 February, Smith makes clear that Air Canada's plan calls for the CS300 to replace the E190.

"But that's assuming our network is static," he adds.

"This airplane is so good [that] we think it's going to want to go on every route in North America," Smith says of the CS300.

"The economics – it's got CASM rates that are equivalent to much larger airplanes. So it may enable us, or give us the opportunity, to rethink our bank structures, how our network is designed," he adds.

[craneSpotter]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

SEA will continue it's strong growth, but it is starting to get very capacity constrained and is not currently far enough along in it's expansion planning to effectively combat this.

Also, worth noting the fleet upgrades being considered.

Delta has a decent amount of new wide bodies on order, however these are to be split between their 8 overseas hubs, whereas ACs widebody expansion is concentrated in 3 with YYZ and YVR receiving the bulk of the new planes.

I still expect YVR to outpace SEAs growth in the near future.

I think you are right regarding current constraints to capacity and delayed planning and expansion at SEA.

First, Delta has said it will likely not add any new international routes from SEA until the new International Arrivals Facility is compete in late 2019. Second, the north satellite expansion/renovation won't be fully open until 2021, with phase one scheduled to open mid-2019.

This delayed terminal/capacity expansion has to hamper the potential growth at SEA for the next few years. Maybe this is additional good news for YVR - considering Air Canada's plans for international route expansion by connecting more US passengers thru YVR. We should continue to see some robust transborder growth

[Cage]

Originally Posted by jmt18325

I'm just assuming, since they ordered enough Max jets to replace all of the 320/321s.

With the release of the 2016 annual report today, the 2018 fleet plan has been announced. AC will receive at least 2 max8s this year and will get another 16 max 8s in 2018. Set to leave the fleet in 2018 are 6 319s and 4 763s (mainline).

My initial expectation was that AC would retire their first 320s that are approaching 30 years old before replacing the 319.

There is also the possibility that AC has disclosedthe 2018 fleet plan to appease the stock market analysts and to not transmit the real plan to competitors.

Comparing the Q4-2016 numbers for both AC and WS, its apparent that the AC program to put widebody aircraft onto the transcon markets is hurting WS more than AC. However I also suspect the analyst community to react negatively to the additional capacity. So AC puts out a fleet plan saying the domestic 763s will leave first to appease the larger stakeholder community. Then come 2018 says AC, "we had a change of heart and the 320s will be the first to go".

Originally Posted by Canadian74

There was no leaked livery, they were fan made fantasy visions

There were some leaks coming from the HQ base at YUL and the admin offices near YTZ. The leaked images are too close too the design specs that AC would have handed out to the proponents.

Originally Posted by casper

The deliveries are spread out over many years. I would not be surprised if the last Airbus left the fleet 10 years from now.

Air Canada does have some 321 that are less than a year old.

10 years sounds about right, especially as the fleet includes references to both mainline and rouge.

The newer 321s are all at rouge. AC got some midrange 3-6 year old 321s for mainline. These 2 321s have a newer Airbus interior than all other 320 series aircraft.

Originally Posted by jmt18325

Considering the A321 is larger than the Max 9, maybe it won't be leaving at all.

The 321neo is kicking the stuffing out of the max9. Boeing has stated that they will improve the max9 over time (the have to, otherwise Airbus will walk away with all orders going to the the 321neoLR). The longer AC waits to take delivery of the max9 the better chance of getting the performance improvement packs into their max9 builds.