Canadian LRT/RT projects U/C

[lrt's friend]

And Ottawa. And Edmonton a couple decades ago

In the case of Ottawa, it is unlikely to remain this way once it reaches the suburbs. The current construction costs are unsustainable and is already delaying other important transit projects by decades. Building metros everywhere in mid sized cities is not feasible. It inevitably means that there are a relatively few winners (those living close to the metro) and mostly losers who don't even get better bus service.

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by GlassCity

I thought of you every time I rode the streetcar when I first visited Toronto in December Sure enough, didn't really get the hype. But I'm willing to acknowledge that maybe I'm just weird.

Well, I hope you got to ride a new one. They are more "subway-like" and crowding is not as much as an issue as it is with the older models. And no comparison to a bus. (Of course that is my opinion, but possibly, I'm just weird like that! )

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

I would like to hear your reasoning, and extrapolations from the numbers you allude to.

Clearly Edmonton transit ridership is lower after building their downtown tunnel first. As a result, for the money invested, they got a shorter system. Because service coverage was less extensive, ridership was lower and therefore there was also less incentive to invest more. Calgary built there system out more quickly and were rewarded with more ridership. I think ridership speaks for itself as to which system is more successful. People speak on its success by choosing to use it or not.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Well, I hope you got to ride a new one. They are more "subway-like" and crowding is not as much as an issue as it is with the older models. And no comparison to a bus. (Of course that is my opinion, but possibly, I'm just weird like that! )

I did! Rode the old one on King Street and the new one on Spadina. But I'll be honest, aside from the increased comfort of the new streetcar seating, I didn't notice too much of a difference. You still couldn't stand up without holding onto anything they way you can on the subway.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

Well, I hope you got to ride a new one. They are more "subway-like" and crowding is not as much as an issue as it is with the older models. And no comparison to a bus. (Of course that is my opinion, but possibly, I'm just weird like that! )

Didn't I just see a proposal to run the King Street streetcar in a separate lane? I think this will improve speed to a degree.

Mind you, Toronto's older streetcar routes are legacy services and tightly tied in with Toronto's character.

[casper]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Clearly Edmonton transit ridership is lower after building their downtown tunnel first. As a result, for the money invested, they got a shorter system. Because service coverage was less extensive, ridership was lower and therefore there was also less incentive to invest more. Calgary built there system out more quickly and were rewarded with more ridership. I think ridership speaks for itself as to which system is more successful. People speak on its success by choosing to use it or not.

I would have thought Calgary having a very office tower dense downtown core with limited access and limited expensive parking would have also been a factor.

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Clearly Edmonton transit ridership is lower after building their downtown tunnel first. As a result, for the money invested, they got a shorter system. Because service coverage was less extensive, ridership was lower and therefore there was also less incentive to invest more. Calgary built there system out more quickly and were rewarded with more ridership. I think ridership speaks for itself as to which system is more successful. People speak on its success by choosing to use it or not.

Just as I thought! I agree 100% with your reasoning, and this is a similar situation to the current debate of the "7-stop" Scarborough LRT compared to the "one-stop" Scarborough Subway which has been fully funded.

Pretty much no debate here, which will create the most ridership. But you know "Subways, Subways, Subways!"

[speedog]

Originally Posted by casper

I would have thought Calgary having a very office tower dense downtown core with limited access and limited expensive parking would have also been a factor.

Could be the fairly large difference in the populations of these two cities as well, Calgary just over 1.2 million and Edmonton at bit over 930,000 - 300,000 people could possibly make a difference as well.

[Coldrsx]

Edmonton will be doing a massive push for its west Valley-line extension. Stay tuned!


https://twitter.com/doniveson

[caltrane74]

Streetcar 4432 is coming down from Thunder Bay with Waterloo Region LRT Railcar #1.

https://twitter.com/chrisjamesdrew/status/831286492404277248

[p_xavier]

New REM promo video, surprised that they're using the Dubai Metro in it.

https://www.facebook.com/CDPQInfra/videos/1798142403781540/

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Clearly Edmonton transit ridership is lower after building their downtown tunnel first. As a result, for the money invested, they got a shorter system. Because service coverage was less extensive, ridership was lower and therefore there was also less incentive to invest more. Calgary built there system out more quickly and were rewarded with more ridership. I think ridership speaks for itself as to which system is more successful. People speak on its success by choosing to use it or not.

Ridership only tells part of the story. Calgary also has the highest monthly parking rates in North America. The city has restricted the number commercial parking spaces in the core unlike some American cities but, it's still a sizable number. It compares to downtown Toronto with twice the office space. The city just has a larger percentage of office workers than pretty much any other city. It's was easier to design a commuter transit system when everyone goes to the same place.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Edmonton will be doing a massive push for its west Valley-line extension. Stay tuned!

I think Edmonton might over estimate how much effort it will take to get partners to the table once you have a scoped and costed project.

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

I think Edmonton might over estimate how much effort it will take to get partners to the table once you have a scoped and costed project.

under

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Ridership only tells part of the story. Calgary also has the highest monthly parking rates in North America. The city has restricted the number commercial parking spaces in the core unlike some American cities but, it's still a sizable number. It compares to downtown Toronto with twice the office space. The city just has a larger percentage of office workers than pretty much any other city. It's was easier to design a commuter transit system when everyone goes to the same place.

Very true, but if any city want their transit investment to reap the most rewards, doing these sort of things are beneficial.

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

I think Edmonton might over estimate how much effort it will take to get partners to the table once you have a scoped and costed project.

Preliminary engineering is essentially complete for the west LRT....and they likely will continue the P3 model.

[MalcolmTucker]

Originally Posted by caltrane74

under

Unlike some places, there are big pots of unallocated transit money in Alberta at both the federal and provincial levels. This isn't like trying to add another incremental project after all the money is already committed to other projects in the same city.

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Preliminary engineering is essentially complete for the west LRT....and they likely will continue the P3 model.

Yup. Should fit nicely to start construction in 2019, a year before opening day on the Mill Woods line. Need funding finalized this cycle (Budget 2017-18) for that, which shouldn't be a problem, from the carbon tax provincially, and the fed pot.

[caltrane74]

Originally Posted by MalcolmTucker

Unlike some places, there are big pots of unallocated transit money in Alberta at both the federal and provincial levels. This isn't like trying to add another incremental project after all the money is already committed to other projects in the same city.

I see.

[WhipperSnapper]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Very true, but if any city want their transit investment to reap the most rewards, doing these sort of things are beneficial.

It's definitely efficient planning but, I wouldn't say it doesn't have its costs either. Transit oriented developments are being built along the lines however, these are still commuter focus lines that were designed to funnel people to the city core. TOD and cheaper, lower density peripheral developments has its limitations in such an arrangement.

[BretttheRiderFan]

Fun fact: the federal and provincial ministers of infrastructure are both former Edmonton bus drivers. If we're ever going to get buy-in on our approved lines, the time is now.