Baseline Rd. Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) Project | Proposed

[Mikeed]

Originally Posted by HighwayStar

I can't imagine too many would use this route to "bypass downtown"...

I moved to Ottawa in 2011 for school. A large part of both my life in Ottawa, and many of my friends, now young adults living across the city**, has been in and around Nepean and the 'baseline axis'.

And I can tell you that often taking the 118 East to Huron and transferring towards Downtown or (rarely for me) East towards Orleans. There's also a decent amount of traffic that would bring you down the 118 to South Keys ether via BRT to the Otrain.

Nepean has kind of disappear from the map, but the neighbourhoods that make it up are a significant chunk of Ottawa. And from personal observation there is a lot of traffic going East towards downtown via Baseline and the South East transitway.

---
I really believe densifying Nepean is key to the future of Ottawa's growth. It is where I think some of the greatest opportunities for density inside the greenbelt. The suburbs is where most of the growth will occur, and we need to make sure that they develop as self-contained small cities.

The area around Baseline Station and Merivale/Clyde should be better connected and conceived as West & East nodes of a larger 'city' of Nepean. Having a more circular rapid transit system between the two nodes. The diversity of zoning types and institutions between these nodes, and how it is along a main east-west axis within the greenbelt.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Mikeed

I moved to Ottawa in 2011 for school. A large part of both my life in Ottawa, and many of my friends, now young adults living across the kid, has been in and around Nepean and the 'baseline axis'.

And I can tell you that often taking the 118 East to Huron and transferring towards Downtown or (rarely for me) East towards Orleans. There's also a decent amount of traffic that would bring you down the 118 to South Keys ether via BRT to the Otrain.

Nepean has kind of disappear from the map, but the neighbourhoods that make it up are a significant chunk of Ottawa. And from personal observation there is a lot of traffic going East towards downtown via Baseline and the South East transitway.

---
I really believe densifying Nepean is key to the future of Ottawa's growth. It is where I think some of the greatest opportunities for density inside the greenbelt. The suburbs is where most of the growth will occur, and we need to make sure that they develop as self-contained small cities.

The area around Baseline Station and Merivale/Clyde should be better connected and conceived as West & East nodes of a larger 'city' of Nepean. Having a more circular rapid transit system between the two nodes. The diversity of zoning types and institutions between these nodes, and how it is along a main east-west axis within the greenbelt.

Well said!

As a heritage advocate, I am saddened that the memory of the former municipalities of Nepean and Gloucester are not being better preserved. Not from the planning perspective, but just making sure that names and key locations are being celebrated better.

The areas inside the Greenbelt should now be treated as the old urban area, and our attempts to intensify should be broader. Not just the Confederation Line corridor. We will make a better city if we improve such corridors as Baseline, Merivale, Carling, St. Laurent, Montreal Road and Bank Street South. And with this, should come transit improvements.

[1overcosc]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Well said!

As a heritage advocate, I am saddened that the memory of the former municipalities of Nepean and Gloucester are not being better preserved. Not from the planning perspective, but just making sure that names and key locations are being celebrated better.

The problem with Gloucester specifically is that its borders were very wacky. It consisted of multiple disjointed urban areas with a huge chunk of rural areas between them. You had the areas in the southeast (Blossom Park, Hawthorne, etc.) that were basically "tacked on" to southern Ottawa, the Beacon Hill/Blair area that was basically "tacked on" to eastern Ottawa, and half of Orleans. Not really the basis of a cohesive identity as a district.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by 1overcosc

The problem with Gloucester specifically is that its borders were very wacky. It consisted of multiple disjointed urban areas with a huge chunk of rural areas between them. You had the areas in the southeast (Blossom Park, Hawthorne, etc.) that were basically "tacked on" to southern Ottawa, the Beacon Hill/Blair area that was basically "tacked on" to eastern Ottawa, and half of Orleans. Not really the basis of a cohesive identity as a district.

Well, those wacky boundaries were a product of the 1950 annexation, how the Greenbelt was designed and the presence of the Mer Bleue. Before 1950, Gloucester was a continuous community.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Well, those wacky boundaries were a product of the 1950 annexation, how the Greenbelt was designed and the presence of the Mer Bleue. Before 1950, Gloucester was a continuous community.

And they ripped up the railway that connected the principle settlements of the township.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by acottawa

And they ripped up the railway that connected the principle settlements of the township.

My grandmother used to catch the train from her home near Billings Bridge to Union Station to go shopping. A different time. I have also been told that as recently as the 1950s, students used to take the train into Ottawa from Ramsayville for a field trip.

But in the old days, the rail lines used to fan out across Gloucester from a meeting point near Hurdman's Bridge. Imagine if we still had that infrastructure.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

You are assuming that nobody lives in the south end of the city, when you make that kind of statement. I don't think I should have to travel north all the way to next to the Ottawa River, before I can go west to any location. That is current situation unless Route 118 is not horribly caught up in traffic.

And yet, people in the Inner East area (New Edinburgh to Overbrook) are going to be asked to travel all the way south to the LRT line before travelling west to downtown on a train that will likely already be fully loaded before it even gets to Hurdman or St-Laurent, rather than improving local bus transit routes that connect inner neighbourhoods to one another.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

And yet, people in the Inner East area (New Edinburgh to Overbrook) are going to be asked to travel all the way south to the LRT line before travelling west to downtown on a train that will likely already be fully loaded before it even gets to Hurdman or St-Laurent, rather than improving local bus transit routes that connect inner neighbourhoods to one another.

In addition to the transfer penalty, there is also a penalty for forcing people to use an indirect routing. Which is worse is a good question.

If we want people to use transit, we should make their travel in a direct line as much as possible. After all, that is what car drivers do, unless congestions forces them to make detours.

[SF Thomas]

Originally Posted by Mikeed

I really believe densifying Nepean is key to the future of Ottawa's growth. It is where I think some of the greatest opportunities for density inside the greenbelt. The suburbs is where most of the growth will occur, and we need to make sure that they develop as self-contained small cities.

The area around Baseline Station and Merivale/Clyde should be better connected and conceived as West & East nodes of a larger 'city' of Nepean. Having a more circular rapid transit system between the two nodes. The diversity of zoning types and institutions between these nodes, and how it is along a main east-west axis within the greenbelt.

Baseline BRT really seems like the main missing rapid transit link within the Greenbelt to me (and one of the easiest to achieve).

One reason I see Baseline BRT being beneficial is that more frequent buses on Baseline would reduce wait times to connect with local north-south routes. One of the biggest detractors from using transit in this area is that bus frequencies are pretty low and it can often take 15 to 20 minutes if you have to transfer from a bus like the 176 or 86 to the 118. I would hope it might also improve the frequency of some local routes as well.

There are quite a few opportunities for residential redevlopment and densification along Baseline If they go ahead with the Baseline BRT, the Merivale Clyde triangle could be a really good opportunity for more dense residential development (although it might require rezoning). You have most major amenities, including two grocery stores near by. There also seems to be an overabundance of large commercial space in the area right now with the former future shop still being empty and the amount of time it took for Target to get redeveloped.

In addition there are a couple of fairly dense neighbourhoods either within walking distance or a really short bus ride from Baseline that aren't immediately obvious and could benefit from better transit access. Central Park, Carlington and the various townhouses and apartment buildings near Hogs Back/Debra-Dynes come to mind.

[AndyMEng]

Originally Posted by Mikeed

I moved to Ottawa in 2011 for school. A large part of both my life in Ottawa, and many of my friends, now young adults living across the city**, has been in and around Nepean and the 'baseline axis'.

And I can tell you that often taking the 118 East to Huron and transferring towards Downtown or (rarely for me) East towards Orleans. There's also a decent amount of traffic that would bring you down the 118 to South Keys ether via BRT to the Otrain.

Nepean has kind of disappear from the map, but the neighbourhoods that make it up are a significant chunk of Ottawa. And from personal observation there is a lot of traffic going East towards downtown via Baseline and the South East transitway.

---
I really believe densifying Nepean is key to the future of Ottawa's growth. It is where I think some of the greatest opportunities for density inside the greenbelt. The suburbs is where most of the growth will occur, and we need to make sure that they develop as self-contained small cities.

The area around Baseline Station and Merivale/Clyde should be better connected and conceived as West & East nodes of a larger 'city' of Nepean. Having a more circular rapid transit system between the two nodes. The diversity of zoning types and institutions between these nodes, and how it is along a main east-west axis within the greenbelt.

It always amazes me when I drive by the Baseline/Clyde/Merivale empty triangle, punctuated by grass, a Value Village, the block walls of the radio station, and a Chip Truck. What happened here? Is it contaminated or something?

While we're always talking about Lebreton/Elmvale/Lincoln Fields, I think this triangle is on par with all of those places. Imagine a fully functioning neighborhood inside this triangle, a la BIG's plan for Pittsburgh, in the empty hole where their arena used to be: http://www.archdaily.com/777408/big-west...plan-for-pittsburghs-lower-hill-district

Maybe now that the BRT is going in, we can finally rip out everything from this entire triangle and start anew with a functioning, modern village without a sea of parking lots and crappy big-box stores.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by AndyMEng

It always amazes me when I drive by the Baseline/Clyde/Merivale empty triangle, punctuated by grass, a Value Village, the block walls of the radio station, and a Chip Truck. What happened here? Is it contaminated or something?

A few years back there was some thought towards a long-term plan for "mainstreeting" Merivale - bringing buildings to the street, moving parking to the back or underground, as properties are redeveloped.

Did that go anywhere?

[AndyMEng]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

A few years back there was some thought towards a long-term plan for "mainstreeting" Merivale - bringing buildings to the street, moving parking to the back or underground, as properties are redeveloped.

Did that go anywhere?

That was just someone's musings, pretty sure. While it is a great plan, that would be a huge undertaking, and something that will happen organically, not all at once. The best we can hope for is rapid transit spur down Merivale connected to Baseline, and a reduction in the parking requirement bylaw to allow for development in the miles of parking lots that line Merivale. Failed Target parking lot, i'm looking at you!

What I'm talking about is cleaning up an unused brownfield directly on the Baseline BRT route, surrounded by high-capacity roadways. I know when the school board sold the highschool/football stadium across the street, we had a jump start in the area, but the walmart shopping centre wasn't exactly the high-density development I had in mind!

[lrt's friend]

Moving retail buildings to the sidewalk and improving transit will help, but still you end up with acres of parking and segregation from residential areas. If you have to walk hundreds of metres from even the closest residence to the street, you will still end up with most people driving there and few pedestrians. The former Laurentian High School is still quite segregated from nearby residences. It is an improvement but still does not create a walkable neighbourhood.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Moving retail buildings to the sidewalk and improving transit will help, but still you end up with acres of parking and segregation from residential areas. If you have to walk hundreds of metres from even the closest residence to the street, you will still end up with most people driving there and few pedestrians. The former Laurentian High School is still quite segregated from nearby residences. It is an improvement but still does not create a walkable neighbourhood.

Diversifying the land use, and, ideally, cutting additional intersections into overlong suburban "blocks", would also form part of any long-term mainstreeting and suburb repair.

Speaking of which: is there any "suburb repair" project on the horizon anywhere in Ottawa, or is the 1950s, 60s, 70s land-use and street layout utterly sacred, like the Brownbelt is? It is going to be hellishly expensive to maintain mid-century suburban thinking if we don't allow the suburbs to change, and soon, and quickly.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by AndyMEng

That was just someone's musings, pretty sure. While it is a great plan, that would be a huge undertaking, and something that will happen organically, not all at once.

Didn't say otherwise.

The best we can hope for is rapid transit spur down Merivale connected to Baseline, and a reduction in the parking requirement bylaw to allow for development in the miles of parking lots that line Merivale. Failed Target parking lot, i'm looking at you!

No, we can also hope for land-use policies that permit a greater variety of uses, and a city approvals process that insists on something better than land-use planning and architecture from 1973.

[Multi-modal]

Project update: Notice of Commencement and Final Report have been posted.

http://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/public-con...ce-commencement-may-18-2017#consultation

The actual plan starts on pg. 187 of the pdf (main report). Not much has changed since the last open house, but some modifications.

[lrt's friend]

Are we seriously going to get the money to build this?

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Are we seriously going to get the money to build this?

I doubt it, but I hope so. The report says that the east half should be built before 2031 (pending funding from upper tiers of government), but there is no firm date of when they might start construction.

Who knows.

[McC]

one post for two threads
http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news...r-plans-take-hits-in-ottawas-2018-budget

One of the immediate cuts to the “transportation” budget is $25 million for dedicated bus lanes along Baseline Road, a project that’s getting pushed into 2020. Some fixes to the Prince of Wales Bridge across the Ottawa River are postponed beyond the planning horizon, too.

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by McC

one post for two threads
http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news...r-plans-take-hits-in-ottawas-2018-budget

Also a victim is the Carling transit priority (complete street?) changes from Preston to Bronson.

Those include renovations to the east end of Carling Avenue