Edmonton Retail Thread

[Hallsy's Toupee]

I shop downtown first since ECC is conveniently close to home and work, and I find it's less Mad Max now. If I can't find what I need there then I'll go to Southgate first, then maybe Kingsway - and I drive to either mall because I prefer not be hauling shopping bags and parcels with me on an LRT train. Once in a while I'll go to WEM to visit specific stores. Once Simons opens in Londonderry then I'll start going there.

[s211]

Originally Posted by 240glt

Yes, filling all that space is not going to be easy. Even harder if they do demise it out into retail bays

I seem to recall seeing floor plans many years ago where the KPMG space was originally designed to be demised into small CRUs with a corridor that would have led over to the Bay via pedway.

Optimally, you need a large user to take that space, and dare I say there could be some real deja vu if the building owner can only fill it with an office user paying absolutely peanuts, like when KPMG originally came in.

[ue]

Originally Posted by BretttheRiderFan

Seven years later, what's the verdict on this?

Are more people shopping downtown because of that LRT extension, or are more people going the other direction for Southgate?

I don't really ever go downtown specifically to shop. I'll go to the malls, certain power centres (hey, IKEA!), and for more urban stuff, Whyte/Garneau and 124th St. The closest to a downtown retailer that will drive me to head out that way is MEC, but I associate it more with 124th/Westmount. If the Bay were our flagship store again, that may give some pull, but as it stands WEM/Southgate are better.

I find that if I do end up shopping downtown, it's not because I made a specific trip out to shop, it's more that I'm already downtown for some other purpose (cafes, restaurants, bars, live events, festivals, markets, exploring, galleries, etc) and need something so will take a look anyways "while I'm there". I do come specifically downtown for a plethora of reasons, but shopping isn't one of them. There's a lot of great momentum downtown, but retail is sadly one of those areas still sorely lacking beyond basic necessities. Stuff like H&M and the new Holts will go a long ways, as will (I assume) new retail in the Ice District. If we could land a Simons or Nordstrom or Saks downtown, especially before other spots (or in Simons case, perhaps a larger "flagship" store) I think that would really draw people in. Even simple things like swapping the tired City Centre Coles for a Chapters would be a huge benefit to downtown retail.

[Coldrsx]

^chapters, hit Audrey's.

[240glt]

Originally Posted by s211

I seem to recall seeing floor plans many years ago where the KPMG space was originally designed to be demised into small CRUs with a corridor that would have led over to the Bay via pedway.

Optimally, you need a large user to take that space, and dare I say there could be some real deja vu if the building owner can only fill it with an office user paying absolutely peanuts, like when KPMG originally came in.

That space does seem to become vacant at the worst possible times it seems

[240glt]

Originally Posted by ue

I don't really ever go downtown specifically to shop. I'll go to the malls, certain power centres (hey, IKEA!), and for more urban stuff, Whyte/Garneau and 124th St. The closest to a downtown retailer that will drive me to head out that way is MEC, but I associate it more with 124th/Westmount. If the Bay were our flagship store again, that may give some pull, but as it stands WEM/Southgate are better.

I find that if I do end up shopping downtown, it's not because I made a specific trip out to shop, it's more that I'm already downtown for some other purpose (cafes, restaurants, bars, live events, festivals, markets, exploring, galleries, etc) and need something so will take a look anyways "while I'm there". I do come specifically downtown for a plethora of reasons, but shopping isn't one of them. There's a lot of great momentum downtown, but retail is sadly one of those areas still sorely lacking beyond basic necessities. Stuff like H&M and the new Holts will go a long ways, as will (I assume) new retail in the Ice District. If we could land a Simons or Nordstrom or Saks downtown, especially before other spots (or in Simons case, perhaps a larger "flagship" store) I think that would really draw people in. Even simple things like swapping the tired City Centre Coles for a Chapters would be a huge benefit to downtown retail.

As I understand, WEM has a radius restriction clause with Simons, which excludes the downtown as a possible place for another outlet, Londonderry falls just outside that radius so that's why they have opened their second outlet there

[ue]

^ Ah, that would make sense. Shame, because they'd make a great destination store for downtown. Is the restriction clause permanent?

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

^chapters, hit Audrey's.

I would think, based on your post history, you'd see the value in a large, prominent national chain to spur people to the core (unless that only applies to clothing stores) vs an awesome independent, which you assume I don't know of, which is more the thing to keep people coming back after initial draw.

[BretttheRiderFan]

On a related note, I will be hitting up Audrey's right away to get the Canada Reads titles for this year.

[Hallsy's Toupee]

I have no issue with a Chapters/Indigo downtown. If it's at ECC or ICE then it's far enough from Audreys to not cannibalize them. Their Coles location in the mall is way too small and cramped.

[ue]

Originally Posted by Hallsy's Toupee

I have no issue with a Chapters/Indigo downtown. If it's at ECC or ICE then it's far enough from Audreys to not cannibalize them. Their Coles location in the mall is way too small and cramped.

Agreed. Somewhere more appropriate for a major chain to let independents like Audreys flourish.

[s4.audios]

Two level Chapter's similar to the one on Whyte would be perfect at the corner of Fox 2.

[Coldrsx]

Originally Posted by ue

I would think, based on your post history, you'd see the value in a large, prominent national chain to spur people to the core (unless that only applies to clothing stores) vs an awesome independent, which you assume I don't know of, which is more the thing to keep people coming back after initial draw.

Perhaps on the east side of the mall, but Audrey's is an institution in a fragile industry.

[noodlenoodle]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Perhaps on the east side of the mall, but Audrey's is an institution in a fragile industry.

If Audrey's cannot adapt & compete in the modern landscape it's nobody's fault but their own. Books are a fungible good, easily obtained from a variety of sellers. I buy a couple books a month & couldn't tell you the last time I've bought one from Audrey's despite it being the closest bookstore to my home.

I agree that they're an Edmonton institution, but so was Greenwoods. It's impressive that they've held on this long but the writing has long, long been on the wall for independent bookstores & I don't really think protectionism is really the way to save them. It's certainly not the position that someone who's paid to advocate for business investment in Edmonton should be putting forward.

[ue]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Perhaps on the east side of the mall, but Audrey's is an institution in a fragile industry.

Haven't you yourself advocated for an urban format Chapters/Indigo in the core before?

I agree that Audreys should stay and not be completely decimated by competition opening up right across the road, but downtown can cater to different demographics and support different niches in different parts of the core. The area around City Centre is more mainstream, chain-orientated anyways (including the west side of the mall!). Actually a Chapters in Commerce Place would work as much as a Simons/Nordstrom/Saks/Bay would.

[Landlocked]

Originally Posted by noodlenoodle

If Audrey's cannot adapt & compete in the modern landscape it's nobody's fault but their own. Books are a fungible good, easily obtained from a variety of sellers. I buy a couple books a month & couldn't tell you the last time I've bought one from Audrey's despite it being the closest bookstore to my home.

I agree that they're an Edmonton institution, but so was Greenwoods. It's impressive that they've held on this long but the writing has long, long been on the wall for independent bookstores & I don't really think protectionism is really the way to save them. It's certainly not the position that someone who's paid to advocate for business investment in Edmonton should be putting forward.

I know independent book stores are romanticized, but this is no different than the mom & pop video rental place losing out to the Blockbusters, and eventually the whole industry being forced to change or shut down. A city can't be in the protection racket, and if they were, I'd have rather seen them protect the green houses along the new northeast portion of the Henday.

[McBoo]

Love Audrey's; shop there often and never come out with just a single book.

Still, have to agree with others that it's not for the City to interfere in the retail marketplace (or pretty much any other).

So, if you like independent bookstores - shop at them!

[kcantor]

Originally Posted by Landlocked

I know independent book stores are romanticized, but this is no different than the mom & pop video rental place losing out to the Blockbusters, and eventually the whole industry being forced to change or shut down. A city can't be in the protection racket, and if they were, I'd have rather seen them protect the green houses along the new northeast portion of the Henday.

are you saying that protection racket hasn't worked our particularly well for taxicabs and liquor stores...

[McBoo]

Well, a long time coming, but in the end (Uber, TAPPcar), the racket didn't help taxi companies!

[technomad]

^^ or WEM... was disappointed to hear it's a non-compete radius keeping Simons out of downtown, they would have been a great fit IMO. Will be interesting to see how they do at Londonderry..

[Coldrsx]

Reference ID: Job No 143774258-065
Description: To change the Use from General Retail Stores on main floor and second floor to Restaurant (60% of Public Space, 108, 110, 118, 120, 220, 230, 240, 250-10111, 104 Ave), Professional, Financial and Office Support Services (102-10111, 104 Ave) and Convenience Retail Stores (112-10111, 104 Ave), to construct exterior alterations (adding mechanical louvre on east and south elevations) and adding outdoor patio spaces to 108, 110, 118 and 120, 10111- 104 Ave)
Location: 10111 - 104 AVENUE NW
Plan 8021480 Blk 1 Lot A
10104 - 103 AVENUE NW
Plan 8021480 Blk 1 Lot B
Applicant: STANTEC ARCHITECTURE LTD.
Status: In Development Review
Create Date: 1/31/2017 12:27:47 PM
Neighbourhood: DOWNTOWN