SkyCity Centre Winnipeg | 45F | 575 Ft | 175.26 M | Cancelled

[Urban recluse]

NO kidding eh?

[905er]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

NO kidding eh?

wow Fortress is REALLY shady.. I say move on Winnipeg.. thanks for the tease.

[bomberjet]

I could see them working something out. Like was mentioned, start really high and end upo with what you actually want. The $8M from the Province is another story. The way Pallisters reign has unfolded, I don't see any money being doles out.

We'll see how she goes over the next while. Even after my doom and gloom thoughts. Still hopeful it gets resolved and we actually get shovels in the ground soon.

[bmyers]

FYI, our response to the journalist.

Good Afternoon Aldin,


Regarding your article about SkyCity this afternoon I would like to point out there is a very incorrect statement that has been included and quotes made on the statement. SkyCity never has requested an upfront payment of the grant from the city. The SkyCity project currently still qualifies under the original DRDG but due to time requirements to build a tower of this scale and size, our development team has requested an extension on the four year completion date. Fortress requested a lump sum payment of the grant at the completion of the project (an option that is available under the current DRDG program) rather than the 10 year payment plan on completion that was offered by the city to all projects that had requested the extension last year.

The city confirmed that the intention at this time is to request that a further extension be granted and that the matter be laid over for to a maximum of 120 days.

[Labroco]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

So just had to think about this for a bit. SkyCity wants $6.5M from the City and $8M from the Province. Or else, basically.

So they spent $9M on the land, which is valued at something like $3M. Even less IIRC. So right there is the $6.5m required from the City.

Is there something more to this? Did they work out some kind of side deal with the property owners to back door some of that $9M back to them. They could spin it as "Fortress paid $9M for the property, so that will be recouped through all the funding streams.' Meanwhile Jawad and co pocketed millions. Why would they pay so much for the property? Is it simply they had no clue? seems they're rather smart fellows. So I would said no, they didn't blindly overpay by $6M.

I get that most large projects are provided public funds. But saying it simply wont happen if they don't get the $6M doesn't seem right to me, when they overpaid so much.

In my eyes, something is off there.

Land is worth $20,000. a car stall... I don't know how many stalls on that site but it's worth way more than 3.

[bomberjet]

There's approx. 150 stalls on those lots (yes I counted ha). $3M dollars at $20k per stall. So no, it's not worth $9M based on parking. If you want to start going into revenue over time, etc. sure you could pay $9M. If you plan on running a parking lot for next couple decades to recoup.

Also, thanks for the response Big Ben. Helps clarify some aspects.

[Urban recluse]

We are all rooting for this project.

[DowntownWpg]

Originally Posted by Urban recluse

We are all rooting for this project.

No one more so than Charles Ponzi!

[Urban recluse]

Hahaha

[Oilkountry]

So does this mean it's official? this was a tweet from jan 17th? "Shovels are going in the ground"

[roccerfeller]

I am expecting it will go through, these guys aren't incapable of doing a high rise. I saw their big tower project rising in Calgary. Pretty nice tower too. (I know Lamb are the developers but Fortress was involved in it, they show it off on their website at least)

I do believe SkyCity will be their own tallest project to date however so I'm sure theres some learning curve for them too. It is certainly ambitious (tallest building in Winnipeg) and once it, hopefully, goes up it would break a lot of "mental barriers" and perceptions about towers that tall in the city (they suddenly become realistic, possible and acceptable...maybe even expected...in the public mindshare)

[Cam]

Originally Posted by roccerfeller

I am expecting it will go through, these guys aren't incapable of doing a high rise. I saw their big tower project rising in Calgary. Pretty nice tower too. (I know Lamb are the developers but Fortress was involved in it, they show it off on their website at least)

I do believe SkyCity will be their own tallest project to date however so I'm sure theres some learning curve for them too. It is certainly ambitious (tallest building in Winnipeg) and once it, hopefully, goes up it would break a lot of "mental barriers" and perceptions about towers that tall in the city (they suddenly become realistic, possible and acceptable...maybe even expected...in the public mindshare)

And with 300 Main being a similar height and going up around the same time, I have to agree that people's mindset will change.

[Wolf13]

Originally Posted by Cam

And with 300 Main being a similar height and going up around the same time, I have to agree that people's mindset will change.

What has to change isn't the "possibility" of these projects happening in the minds of Winnipeggers... it's the cynical and useless socialist thinking that anything huge is a vanity exercise to the tune of huge profits...

Case A:

Developer: We're building a tower! Hope you like it!
Winnipegger: What about our crappy roads and our poor??????
Developer: ..... What?......
Winnipegger: It'll never happen and there are only crappy roads and poor people downtown anyway. Fuck the rich, they should help people.

Winnipeggers by and large do not understand that success begets success and the market responds positively to proper investment; this in turn improves the livelihood and opportunity of most citizens.

Instead they wonder weird things like

Case B:

"How can I prevent my neighbour from building that fence, I hate that colour"

Or Case C:

"Why havent the Richardson's/TNS/Artis/Shindico/SkyCity solved global warming yet, stored that excess heat and used it to get Winnipeg through January?"


Pardon my cynicism, but I know a couple of well-to-do people who love Winnipeg but LEFT. They complain that Winnipeg doesn't let you make money on two fronts:

1) Hard market, high costs
2) Citizen cynicism or envy towards success. People get in your way if you are doing well, feeling shortchanged. This reaches the political level, where elected officials want the favour of the masses so they pander to a backwards mindset.


These are generalizations. However, they question of "possible" arose after the above cases set the tone for nothing happening for decades.

[DowntownBooster]

Originally Posted by Wolf13

What has to change isn't the "possibility" of these projects happening in the minds of Winnipeggers... it's the cynical and useless socialist thinking that anything huge is a vanity exercise to the tune of huge profits...

Case A:

Developer: We're building a tower! Hope you like it!
Winnipegger: What about our crappy roads and our poor??????
Developer: ..... What?......
Winnipegger: It'll never happen and there are only crappy roads and poor people downtown anyway. Fuck the rich, they should help people.

Winnipeggers by and large do not understand that success begets success and the market responds positively to proper investment; this in turn improves the livelihood and opportunity of most citizens.

Instead they wonder weird things like

Case B:

"How can I prevent my neighbour from building that fence, I hate that colour"

Or Case C:

"Why havent the Richardson's/TNS/Artis/Shindico/SkyCity solved global warming yet, stored that excess heat and used it to get Winnipeg through January?"


Pardon my cynicism, but I know a couple of well-to-do people who love Winnipeg but LEFT. They complain that Winnipeg doesn't let you make money on two fronts:

1) Hard market, high costs
2) Citizen cynicism or envy towards success. People get in your way if you are doing well, feeling shortchanged. This reaches the political level, where elected officials want the favour of the masses so they pander to a backwards mindset.


These are generalizations. However, they question of "possible" arose after the above cases set the tone for nothing happening for decades.

Hopefully that mindset is beginning to change. The more these new projects go up, the more optimistic people here will become.

[Finessing]

How a real estate developer’s efforts to silence a critic failed
http://www.macleans.ca/economy/busin...critic-failed/

Investors in one Calgary condo project being developed by Fortress and self-anointed “condo king” Brad Lamb received a letter in September informing them that payments to investors were being delayed as a result of a “lack of funds closing into the project’s interest reserve.” The letter assured investors that mortgage brokers were “actively raising money for the project” from new investors to “bring the development budget up to date, and top up the [interest reserve] for current and future payments.”

Ponzi scheme.

These Fortress losers tried to sue a real estate analyst for criticizing them.

[OakbluffMB]

Heard a rumour that Fortress will be adding a new partner here. Toronto developer with large project experience.

[bomberjet]

Ooh, interesting. bahhhhhhh maybe?



I couldn't find a lamb emoji, so just threw in Groundskeeper Willie. Brad lamb was my guess. bahhh bahhh. He's building condos in Calgary, but seems like the hoity toity type and likely look down on Winnipeg.

[OakbluffMB]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

Ooh, interesting. bahhhhhhh maybe?



I couldn't find a lamb emoji, so just threw in Groundskeeper Willie. Brad lamb was my guess. bahhh bahhh. He's building condos in Calgary, but seems like the hoity toity type and likely look down on Winnipeg.

It would make sense if it was an existing partner of theirs, perhaps Lamb, Amadon or Averton, they are all currently out west.

[Finessing]

I wonder if the SkyCity sales folks are disclosing to buyers that this building is cancelled unless they get the grant?

[lilwayne]

Originally Posted by Finessing

I wonder if the SkyCity sales folks are disclosing to buyers that this building is cancelled unless they get the grant?

They got the grant just difference of how they get paid they want whole grant end of construction not pay out over 10 years or whatever it is