Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by officedweller

Last year they added one more train from Brighouse in rush hour - that's probably what you're thinking of.

What does that mean exactly? Like there are 19 trains running, 10 of them run brighouse-waterfront and 9 run YVR-waterfront?

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

What does that mean exactly? Like there are 19 trains running, 10 of them run brighouse-waterfront and 9 run YVR-waterfront?

Regardless of the number of trains in service, when a train coming from Waterfront terminus arrives at Bridgeport, it then continues on to either
a) the YVR terminus or
b) the Richmond-Brighouse terminus.

there is a 1:1 balance of trains to YVR or Brighouse

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

Regardless of the number of trains in service, when a train coming from Waterfront terminus arrives at Bridgeport, it then continues on to either
a) the YVR terminus or
b) the Richmond-Brighouse terminus.

there is a 1:1 balance of trains to YVR or Brighouse

So what did they add to alleviate the clog of people at Brighouse, the whole idea would be more trains going there.

[officedweller]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

What does that mean exactly? Like there are 19 trains running, 10 of them run brighouse-waterfront and 9 run YVR-waterfront?

See info here:

http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2014/09/one-c...hours-richmond-brighouse-station-relief/

They added on extra train to Brighouse (so the split was not even during morning rush hour).
At the time (2014) that meant that 17 of 20 trains were in use in the morning rush hour (so I guess 9 and 8)

Remember that was then, not the current new changes.

Don't know what the split is/will be with all 20 trains in use.

[tlo]

Originally Posted by Meraki

The one time I tried helping tourists with that, it said "fare cannot be upgraded."

I had to grab an STA to help them, not sure how it ended.

I ran some tests today to check that my ticket app displays the correct messages for AddFare transactions.

Exit TVM

What I found was that none of the Exit TVMs in the zone where I had purchased a One Zone ticket would allow me to upgrade the fare; they would display the "Compass Ticket is not valid for upgrade" message, which IMHO is very misleading. The first Exit TVM that would allow an upgrade was the first one I approached after entering the adjacent zone but I had no choice of which upgrade to choose, it was forced to be an AddFare for the new zone, which makes sense.

After that upgrade, none of the Exit TVMs in either zone would allow a further upgrade for the third zone, displaying the same "not valid" message. Presumably I would have had to enter the third zone before that was allowed.

Regular TVM

I found that I could tap out in the first zone and do the upgrade at a normal TVM most of the time. There was at least one TVM that did not allow it, displaying the "not valid" message; I don't know what's going on there because the same TVM would allow the upgrade the next day.


So the logic seems to be that one should be able to tap-out and upgrade one's ticket at a regular TVM before tapping back in and travelling on into the adjacent zone. If one forgets and travels into the adjacent zone then it can be done at the Exit TVM. All assuming the ticket has not expired.

[TransitJack]

Originally Posted by officedweller

See info here:

http://www.vancitybuzz.com/2014/09/one-c...hours-richmond-brighouse-station-relief/

They added on extra train to Brighouse (so the split was not even during morning rush hour).
At the time (2014) that meant that 17 of 20 trains were in use in the morning rush hour (so I guess 9 and 8)

Remember that was then, not the current new changes.

Don't know what the split is/will be with all 20 trains in use.

They added one train for one run Brighouse to Waterfront in the AM rush, around 8am. An empty train would arrive at Brighouse and go into service, then was taken out at Waterfront.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by TransitJack

They added one train for one run Brighouse to Waterfront in the AM rush, around 8am. An empty train would arrive at Brighouse and go into service, then was taken out at Waterfront.

They should really look into making a majority of Canada Line trains Richmond-Waterfront during the AM and PM rush hours. Maybe extend the 620 and other bus routes to YVR to compensate.

[ilikeredheads]

Originally Posted by cganuelas1995

They should really look into making a majority of Canada Line trains Richmond-Waterfront during the AM and PM rush hours. Maybe extend the 620 and other bus routes to YVR to compensate.

You can't because it's only single tracking between Brighouse and Lansdowne. In order to do something like 2 trains to Brighouse/1 to Yvr with the current number of trains, frequency to YVR would have to be reduced, and this is something the airport will NOT agree to.

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by ilikeredheads

You can't because it's only single tracking between Brighouse and Lansdowne. In order to do something like 2 trains to Brighouse/1 to Yvr with the current number of trains, frequency to YVR would have to be reduced, and this is something the airport will NOT agree to.

What about my bus extension idea to compensate? Maybe turning VYR station into a major transit hub/loop for TransLink, Greyhound, taxis, Uber/Lyft/whatever rideshare services exist (when or if they are allowed to operate on GRVD roads), and maybe even BCTransit buses for connections to the Fraser Valley and Whistler.

Might take some time but hopefully it will catch on.

[ilikeredheads]

compensate for what? I think you need to realize that for the majority of passengers transferring from a bus at Bridgeport, YVR is not their destination. Terminating at YVR (again, if YVR even allows it) will only make their commute longer. The trains coming from YVR are not packed, so during rush hour you'll see many of these people choosing to wait for the train coming YVR.

[jollyburger]

Was there any decision on removing more seats near the doors on other Canada Line trains after their 2-train pilot run?

[TransitJack]

They can't just shift priority to Richmond, as the agreement calls for a certain amount of service to YVR.

YVR put a lot of coin in for this line and they aren't going to relinquish frequency to the other leg's advantage.

I think when more trains eventually are added to the fleet, we will see a 2:1 shift, where YVR still maintains a minimum headway around the 6-7 min mark.

I don't think trains arriving/departing Waterfront can handle anything better than a 2 minute headway, so perhaps new trains could yield:
Richmond, 2 mins later Richmond, 2 mins later, YVR to gain a shared headway Bridgeport to Waterfront of 2 minutes, 6 minutes for YVR, and between 2-4 mins for Richmond. To avoid the single track issue at RBT, perhaps the second "richmond" train could turn back at Lansdowne while the 1st richmond train dwells at terminus. Just a thought anyways.

[nname]

Originally Posted by TransitJack

I don't think trains arriving/departing Waterfront can handle anything better than a 2 minute headway, so perhaps new trains could yield:
Richmond, 2 mins later Richmond, 2 mins later, YVR to gain a shared headway Bridgeport to Waterfront of 2 minutes, 6 minutes for YVR, and between 2-4 mins for Richmond. To avoid the single track issue at RBT, perhaps the second "richmond" train could turn back at Lansdowne while the 1st richmond train dwells at terminus. Just a thought anyways.

The first Richmond train can clear single track section quickly by leaving Brighouse immediately, then perform recovery at Landsdowne inbound, and then proceed with 4min gap after previous train.

Second train split recovery time at Landsdowne and Brighouse outbound, then wait at Brighouse and proceed with 2min gap after previous train.

Similar set up already in use for Expo train terminating at Production - the recovery is not done at Production or the turn-around switch - it is done at Lougheed during the inbound trip toward Waterfront. The train will wait at platform 1 for up to 4min for its scheduled departure time (right after the train from Lafarge leave the station).

[Express691]

Originally Posted by nname

The first Richmond train can clear single track section quickly by leaving Brighouse immediately, then perform recovery at Landsdowne inbound, and then proceed with 4min gap after previous train.

Second train split recovery time at Landsdowne and Brighouse outbound, then wait at Brighouse and proceed with 2min gap after previous train.

Similar set up already in use for Expo train terminating at Production - the recovery is not done at Production or the turn-around switch - it is done at Lougheed during the inbound trip toward Waterfront. The train will wait at platform 1 for up to 4min for its scheduled departure time (right after the train from Lafarge leave the station).

I have seen more trains wrong railing into King George inbound. More often than not, It happens even when King George outbound is empty. Moreover, I have seen trains wait just outside the switch despite KG Outbound being empty. Dont know what the deal is there.

Lets switch gears for a little bit - I think that this needs a bit of discussion.

Translink has released 3 videos regarding phase 2 of the fare review.

https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=gJmOYbM5tUs

https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=AoNUEMsJYhw

https://www.youtube.com/shared?ci=vtfrMoI_Ed0

[ilikeredheads]

Transit fare review Phase 2 survey:
http://www.translink.ca/en/Plans-and-Projects/Transit-Fare-Review.aspx

I don't think there needs to be big overhauls. They just need to change Skytrain and WCE to distance based fares. Buses should remain unchanged imo.

[GlassCity]

I just did the survey. Ideally, I would have a flat rate at all distances, times and modes in order to maximize a sense of freedom. I think the best would be if people could just get on transit and go, and not worry about how far they're going, or if they should wait 20 minutes so it's cheaper, etc. People in cars don't have these concerns, and it would be great if we could eliminate them for transit customers too.

However, I recognize that eliminating zones altogether would result in a revenue decrease, so I said that I would accept some form of distance. I don't like the pure distance idea, as it would be hard to calculate, but a more flexible zone model would be good. Perhaps if you combined their idea of more zones but then also having the first 2 be free, that could work?

I also recognize that overcrowding is an issue, so if giving people discounts to travel off-peak is that important to keep peak services available, I'm not too opposed either. Again though, I would prefer this difference to be as minimal as possible.

The one thing I cannot accept under any circumstances is different fares for different travel modes, such as between buses and SkyTrain. West Coast Express is fine, since it costs a lot more to operate and is in a way removed from the system, but the rest have to be integrated. Transit systems work with many individual parts feeding each other to get people around. They cannot be made to compete with each other, and people cannot be encouraged to pick between them. It's supposed to work cohesively. I also really have a problem with the classism that this idea hints at. Buses = poor people. Park and Ride and SkyTrain = rich people. Not okay.

[jollyburger]

I guess if they eliminated zones then monthly pass prices would increase (if you're on a one zone).

And the problem with off-peak times is that during the week you're asking people to travel after 6:30PM. If the difference is so minimal then there's probably little change on behaviour and having no mid-day (10AM-2PM?) off-peak makes it even less of a way to shape the system usage.

[GlassCity]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

I guess if they eliminated zones then monthly pass prices would increase (if you're on a one zone).

I'd be very surprised if they actually got rid of zones. I think they'll change them up somehow, but a flat fare across the city is probably a non-starter.

[Sheba]

I remember when zones were only in effect during rush hour and it was one zone between 9:30am - 3:00pm. There were a lot of people who would wait until after 9:30 to travel. When they took that away it felt like a cash grab. A time of day discount does more to affect travel patterns than charging different fares for different vehicles (WCE is premium and only travels during rush hour).

[Metro-One]

Did the survey. Distance based all the way for rail!

I don't like the variation in time, especially the hourly one. Off peak could be okay if it is only a couple fare changes a day.