The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by KnoxfordGuy

Not good. Sears will be going belly up in a few years no doubt.

This is a ridiculous narrative. Paying jobs are paying jobs. It should say something if a company like Sears has interest in creating jobs in a municipality and province as tax-heavy on businesses as SJ and NB. These could be anywhere else in Canada but they're in Saint John. I understand the downside of funding the creation of these jobs but at the end of the day the economic activity created by them should offset the upfront funding over time. Have these ventures failed in the past and not created the jobs they've promised? Sure. But i'm willing to be positive and optimistic about this rather than nay-saying for the sake of nay-saying.

I've never seen people in a province and city so desperate for jobs and economic activity be so willing to turn their noses up for whatever contrived reason they can think of when they're offered that very thing.

[michael_d40]

Originally Posted by JHikka

This is a ridiculous narrative. Paying jobs are paying jobs. It should say something if a company like Sears has interest in creating jobs in a municipality and province as tax-heavy on businesses as SJ and NB. These could be anywhere else in Canada but they're in Saint John. I understand the downside of funding the creation of these jobs but at the end of the day the economic activity created by them should offset the upfront funding over time. Have these ventures failed in the past and not created the jobs they've promised? Sure. But i'm willing to be positive and optimistic about this rather than nay-saying for the sake of nay-saying.

I've never seen people in a province and city so desperate for jobs and economic activity be so willing to turn their noses up for whatever contrived reason they can think of when they're offered that very thing.

Perhaps it's because more people than you think are not as desperate for jobs as you may think. Never forget, it's always the noisy minority that speaks the loudest. Maybe... the silent majority within Greater Saint John region are not desperate for weak paying call centre jobs and will not be part of the race to the bottom and command respectable wages and aspire for greater things in life and refuse to settle? Just a thought.

Why would any of us be happy for this Sears announcement? It's not IF Sears will fail... it's when.

The way I think of it is, say this call centre does pay a respectable wage (which I doubt) and does stay for .... 10 years (again, which I doubt) But let's say it does. Let's say there's a 45 year old that desperately needs a job and are qualified for something better than call centre work, but quickly takes a Sears call centre job since "it's better than nothing"... They stick with it, because it pays the bills and they become complacent, then the call centre closes in 10 years. This person is now 55 years old, only 10 years away from retirement and it will be near impossible for them to get into a field that would pay a respectable wage. So what do they do now? They now run to yet another call centre, this time maybe not so great. Perhaps now they are at one that strictly is outsourcing and pays even lower wages and now are in a disgusting rut they can't get out of so close to retirement.

So before casting shame on any of us who are not jumping up and down with joy over this announcement perhaps think about the grand scheme of things.

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by michael_d40

The way I think of it is, say this call centre does pay a respectable wage (which I doubt) and does stay for .... 10 years (again, which I doubt) But let's say it does. Let's say there's a 45 year old that desperately needs a job and are qualified for something better than call centre work, but quickly takes a Sears call centre job since "it's better than nothing"... They stick with it, because it pays the bills and they become complacent, then the call centre closes in 10 years. This person is now 55 years old, only 10 years away from retirement and it will be near impossible for them to get into a field that would pay a respectable wage. So what do they do now? They now run to yet another call centre, this time maybe not so great. Perhaps now they are at one that strictly is outsourcing and pays even lower wages and now are in a disgusting rut they can't get out of so close to retirement.

So what is the alternative for this person?

[thefishingnut]

Originally Posted by michael_d40

Perhaps it's because more people than you think are not as desperate for jobs as you may think. Never forget, it's always the noisy minority that speaks the loudest. Maybe... the silent majority within Greater Saint John region are not desperate for weak paying call centre jobs and will not be part of the race to the bottom and command respectable wages and aspire for greater things in life and refuse to settle? Just a thought.

Why would any of us be happy for this Sears announcement? It's not IF Sears will fail... it's when.

The way I think of it is, say this call centre does pay a respectable wage (which I doubt) and does stay for .... 10 years (again, which I doubt) But let's say it does. Let's say there's a 45 year old that desperately needs a job and are qualified for something better than call centre work, but quickly takes a Sears call centre job since "it's better than nothing"... They stick with it, because it pays the bills and they become complacent, then the call centre closes in 10 years. This person is now 55 years old, only 10 years away from retirement and it will be near impossible for them to get into a field that would pay a respectable wage. So what do they do now? They now run to yet another call centre, this time maybe not so great. Perhaps now they are at one that strictly is outsourcing and pays even lower wages and now are in a disgusting rut they can't get out of so close to retirement.

So before casting shame on any of us who are not jumping up and down with joy over this announcement perhaps think about the grand scheme of things.

You know it's actually ok to feel good about benefits to others rather than focusing purely on how it affects you.

[cdnguys]

It doesn't matter what you announce in this city, people are going to 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 about it. These jobs pay $15 to start which is better than the huge swaths of people on EI and welfare in this city. If you can afford tens of millions annually on welfare for folks that contribute minimal to the economy - you can 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 a few million on creating 350 jobs - for folks that want to work and contribute to economy.

[Scarface]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

It doesn't matter what you announce in this city, people are going to 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 about it. These jobs pay $15 to start which is better than the huge swaths of people on EI and welfare in this city. If you can afford tens of millions annually on welfare for folks that contribute minimal to the economy - you can 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 a few million on creating 350 jobs - for folks that want to work and contribute to economy.

The Majority of people who are working age, and unemployed curently are not on EI but on Social Assistance. But I do see your point on it. There is still a large percentage on EI.

In my house we both worked pretty close to minimum wage, and most people on SA, or EI would say you would never catch them working a 40 hour job at minimum wage, or Whatever. In my head there are 2 reasons why I did it 1>It was a job, and it paid the bills, and 2. We have always made ends meet, and would always prioritize needs over wants

People these days complain about pay because they don't know the differences between wants, and needs.

[ErickMontreal]

Sears leased 19,556 SQ.FT and 6,053 SQ.FT. from Crombie Reit (Loch Lomond Road). Red Cross leased 21,264 SQ.FT. and 15,650 SQ.FT. a while back which will help to fill out the space left out after the departure of Uniliver, Iron Mountain as well as Exxon Mobile.

http://www.crombiereit.ca/PDF/factsheet_49.pdf

[JHikka]

Originally Posted by michael_d40

Perhaps it's because more people than you think are not as desperate for jobs as you may think. Never forget, it's always the noisy minority that speaks the loudest. Maybe... the silent majority within Greater Saint John region are not desperate for weak paying call centre jobs and will not be part of the race to the bottom and command respectable wages and aspire for greater things in life and refuse to settle? Just a thought.

Perhaps, but there's always going to be a market for these supposed weak-paying jobs (which i've still yet to see any evidence of in this instance). If Sears thought differently do you think they'd be expanding in such a high-taxed jurisdiction like SJ? Unlikely. You'd think they would do their research and know labour and market conditions better than the so-called minority or majority voices.

This isn't a race to the bottom. Average wages have been rising in NB year-over-year for a while now and an expanding IT community is partly to thank for that.

Originally Posted by michael_d40

Why would any of us be happy for this Sears announcement? It's not IF Sears will fail... it's when.

It's an increase in the potential workforce in the city and Sears' demise is purely speculation at this stage.

Originally Posted by michael_d40

The way I think of it is, say this call centre does pay a respectable wage (which I doubt) and does stay for .... 10 years (again, which I doubt) But let's say it does. Let's say there's a 45 year old that desperately needs a job and are qualified for something better than call centre work, but quickly takes a Sears call centre job since "it's better than nothing"... They stick with it, because it pays the bills and they become complacent, then the call centre closes in 10 years. This person is now 55 years old, only 10 years away from retirement and it will be near impossible for them to get into a field that would pay a respectable wage. So what do they do now? They now run to yet another call centre, this time maybe not so great. Perhaps now they are at one that strictly is outsourcing and pays even lower wages and now are in a disgusting rut they can't get out of so close to retirement.

There's too many theoreticals in this scenario such as past working experience, past employment, and potential savings or lackthereof to warrant any sort of serious response. Not much more than a hyperbolic example.

At the end of the day a corporation is looking to expand in the local market and provide jobs for those that are willing. I really don't see the issue with this. If the company goes up then it goes up - companies and corporations do that. It's up to the individual to plan their life and their career and their savings, and it's up to government to provide the environment for employers to provide that to potential employees.

Originally Posted by Scarface

People these days complain about pay because they don't know the differences between wants, and needs.

Absolutely.

[JHikka]

Saint John to hire tax experts for property tax overhaul report.

[saintjohnirish☘]

^ Appreciate the idea, the province should reimburse us though.

Interesting read: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on...t-behind/article33708688/?click=sf_globe

[Helladog]

Proposed JDI parking structure



Video:
https://vimeo.com/200190977

[uptownres]

I live right next to the proposed parking garage. I thought it was supposed to be street-level parking? Now it's a large garage? I'm concerned about traffic flowing through the area - Carmarthen isn't a large street, and I'm thinking it'll have a tough time handling the 550 cars every morning and evening.

I also don't understand the need for more parking uptown. I feel like I see empty parking lots nearly everywhere I look.

[Helladog]

Originally Posted by uptownres

I live right next to the proposed parking garage. I thought it was supposed to be street-level parking? Now it's a large garage? I'm concerned about traffic flowing through the area - Carmarthen isn't a large street, and I'm thinking it'll have a tough time handling the 550 cars every morning and evening.

I also don't understand the need for more parking uptown. I feel like I see empty parking lots nearly everywhere I look.

I don't understand why they don't use land beside the tower on the Union Street side. I wasn't in favour of them closing up a street in the first place. Perhaps it was going to be a surface lot at first, then they changed their mind.

[Franco401]

Originally Posted by Helladog

I don't understand why they don't use land beside the tower on the Union Street side. I wasn't in favour of them closing up a street in the first place. Perhaps it was going to be a surface lot at first, then they changed their mind.

Perhaps the land next to the tower could be opened up for development. That lot will surely be unnecessary with the new garage.

[JHikka]

Really not sure how I feel about this. I don't particularly enjoy the idea of getting two new above-ground parking structures within blocks of each other in the Uptown. We should be forcing parking underground where possible (and focusing on alternative modes of transport where possible).

This would put the Uptown above-ground parking structures at....five? Peel, Brunswick,Germain, IOL, JDI? I'm absolutely in favour of removing surface parking whenever possible but it's not much of an upgrade if surface parking is replaced by a parking garage.

[saintjohnirish☘]

Seriously no shortage of parking uptown. Also too, there's the underground parkade at Prince Edward Square, needs some work but might be worth looking into

[saintjohnirish☘]

I wonder what that part of Elliot Row was zoned for/subdivided as or if there were mulitple lots for residential? Because if so, we might be missing out on potential tax revenue

[kwajo]

Originally Posted by saintjohnirish☘

I wonder what that part of Elliot Row was zoned for/subdivided as or if there were mulitple lots for residential? Because if so, we might be missing out on potential tax revenue

It's kind of a moot point since that block of the street was sold to JDI already.

As for the parking garage itself, I'm not a fan per se, but if it means that JDI will finally give up some of the adjacent land and buildings (such as those on King Street East) and allow residential or commercial developers to buy them, then I'm all for it. I've been fed up with that slash and burn style of urban property management for a long time, it needs to end.

Also, the design and concept look straight out of 1992

[CdnEh]

Originally Posted by JHikka

This is a ridiculous narrative. Paying jobs are paying jobs. It should say something if a company like Sears has interest in creating jobs in a municipality and province as tax-heavy on businesses as SJ and NB. These could be anywhere else in Canada but they're in Saint John. I understand the downside of funding the creation of these jobs but at the end of the day the economic activity created by them should offset the upfront funding over time. Have these ventures failed in the past and not created the jobs they've promised? Sure. But i'm willing to be positive and optimistic about this rather than nay-saying for the sake of nay-saying.

I've never seen people in a province and city so desperate for jobs and economic activity be so willing to turn their noses up for whatever contrived reason they can think of when they're offered that very thing.

They're only here because the government is kicking in almost $10m in taxpayer money to get them here. How many times has the taxpayer been burned by funding these call centres in the past? They contribute millions of dollars, then the call centre unexpectedly packs up and everybody loses their jobs within a few years.

Sears is on life support. Absolute bottom of the barrel in the retail market. This is an indisputable fact. This is not a stable avenue for the government to invest $10m in.

[CdnEh]

Originally Posted by kwajo

Also, the design and concept look straight out of 1992

The design is meant to match their existing building, which was built in 1977.