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Originally Posted by Sheba
Also if they have any sense (which is always debatable) they won't build the entire extension to Langley all at once - they'll build it in phases and watch the ridership numbers.
L is just the shape of the route (admittedly upside down). I'm sure they'll come up with a proper (pretentious?) name for it if they get to build it.
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They won't. They have Phase 1 as the LRT, and Phase 2 as the Langley Line.
I guess they call it the 'Surrey Mayors are being a b-" route?
On a more realistic note, probably the King George's Line, or something- the line from guildford and down to Langley being converted to Skytrain in Phase 2.
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Originally Posted by Kisai
The only saving grace with going with that technology is that it's one straight grade-separated line and uses the same automated SelTrac technology as the Skytrain. Without being able to share the rolling stock of the Skytrain, that means that the Canada Line will be more expensive to operate than the Skytrain, and will require separate orders to get more trains. Meanwhile the UBC, Evergreen, Millenium and Expo segments can all use the same rolling stock, and any extensions to PoCo and Langley can also use the same rolling stock.
The more you invest in your own technology, the less it costs the transit system in maintenance and operational costs. The automated trains allow for saving money by dialing up or down frequency. You can't do that on driver-operated trains because union contracts require shifts of specific lengths. So you end up spending money running the trains at the same frequency all day unless a driver calls in sick.
It would have been ideal to use the same technology for everything. But the nature of PPP's is that you must accept the lowest bidder even if it's the least efficient option. PPP's only take into account the capital costs, not operational costs beyond the initial 30 years. Had the Canada Line not been rushed for the Olympics, it's likely the Evergreen line would have been built first as a LRT and then the RAV line being built as a LRT, and then all of south-of-fraser transit going to hell in a handbasket with gridlock. It's the lesson nobody learns from other cities, that multiple independent lines means redundant staffing, maintenance, ticketing and security. As technology improves you can always build a new line with newer backwards-compatible tech, and then refurbish an older parallel line.
That is what I fear is going to happen with both the Canada Line + Arbutus, and the "L line" LRT in Surrey. When the Canada Line is 30 years old, it will likely be beyond it's capacity, so they will build a newer parallel Arbutus line and then shutdown the Canada Line to expand it. With the "L Line" in Surrey they will never recover it's costs in 50 years (these are always 30 year financing things,) and the business case will recommend replacing the LRT (assuming it never gets expanded) with a underground Subway so that the road space can be freed back up, and drastically reduce the maintenance and staffing costs of the LRT.
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Why not elevated Skytrain on the L-Line? If there was space for 2 extra lanes, clearly there should be space for 1 in the middle of the road. And could the Canada Line be changed to use the same stock as the rest of the system when it is eventually upgraded (and Artubus converted to LRT or BRT for overflow traffic, depending on what is built in the downtown).
[QUOTE=flipper316;7689468]
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredinno
Extending the high-capacity Expo Line into the lower capacity South of Fraser Suburbs is a bad idea for precisely that reason- It's inefficient to have Expo line cars hovering half-empty around Surrey as the trains in Metrotown are starting to resemble those in East Asia. 
Keep the two systems separate. My ideal Skytrain line would go from White Rock along King George to Surrey Central (Transfer), then out from 108 to Guildford, down 152 to Fraser, and from Fraser to Langley Memorial. Only issue is missing out on Surrey Outpatient, but it otherwise fills all the lines from Phase 1, and 2 of Translink's Plan.
It's really the best compromise.
Dude have you ever taken the 502 bus that runs from Surrey Central, via King George Station, then ultimately all down Fraser Highway to Langley. That bus is slowly making its case for one of the busiest routes/corridors in metro Vancouver. I guarantee you if a Skytrain gets built along Fraser Highway it'll be an instant success. |
It's less busy than the Expo Line. That's my point. I would expand Expo to Surrey Outpatient, and replace all two phases with a single Skytain line. You can't make them all expo anyways. And I reckon most people that would use it are going to Surrey Central, not Waterfront or Metrotown.
Also, connecting the 104 segment to Guildford would need a fairly sharp turn, while building through the Urban Forest would go through quite a bit of empty land.
Of course, "Phase 2" Fraser (and Guildford) would be the first priority.
And what about downtown? Do we build LRT in the West End Area or dedicated Lane BRT? There's been proposals for a high capacity network in that area for a while now, it's pretty dense.
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