Highways in Canada

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by Infrequent Poster

What bothers me most about the sfpr is how they built it with no way to add any extra lanes in the future. I guess thats not entirely true, with enough money anything can happen i suppose. There are a few spots though, (like where it passes under the afb) where because of the way they built it adding capacity in the future will be incredibly exspensive.

Obviously I also wish it would have opened as a proper free flowing road as well.

That is because the Lower Mainland is so against highways that to think it would be widened would be ridiculous.

[ssiguy]

It's not just the city dwellers, the province invests shockingly little in the highway system.

HWY 1 & 99 are basically as falt as a rock and heavily congested but haven't been widened since they were built in the 60s. The SFPR is just a 4 lane road riddled with traffic lights. Connectivity, speed, and even safety are irrelevant to the BC gov't. The Island Highway was suppose to be freeway but again is mostly just a 4 lane road with lights and the Coquihala Connector was suppose to be freeway from the main Coquihala by merging offand completely by-pass Merritt and the huge mountain that needs to be traversed before it but the Minister in the charge was from Merritt so the traffic has to get off at Merritt and take a regular road to make the connection going kms out of the way and adding 25 minutes of travel for cars and a whopping 40 minutes for trucks as trucks have to climb/descend the mountain which they wouldn't have to if it was built correctly the first time.

[libtard]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Yeah, the original design of the SFPR was nearly all interchanges, but then they cut the budget. Funny thing is there are hints that the first few intersections are already being considered for interchange upgrades, including Sunbury which could end up being a pretty major interchange with the Alex Fraser Bridge. Still, would have cost less in the long run to have just built them from the get go (the exact same thing happened with the 91in the 90s). The one area that does have an excuse for not being fully built is around the Pattullo Bridge. Think the province needed to wait and see what Trnaslink was going to do with the replacement.

The #1 was a great project done right and the 99 looks like it may follow that formula. If built as is shown the 99 and Steveston Interchange will by far be the most impressive in Western Canada. Currently I feel the Cape Horn may have that title, but that is up for debate

Can someone please ban this troll?? Seriously take your homer glasses off. "by far the most impressive in western Canada"? Even if the new steveston interchange does get built as shown it wouldn't be "by far the most impressive". I was born and raised in Richmond but I can admit Anothony Henday Dr. & No.2 in Edmonton is just as impressive. With a much larger foot print and better engineered/gradual flyovers/fly-unders.

[Metro-One]

Haha, calling me a troll over this? Really? I guess everyone on the skyline page is a troll as well.

You and ssiguy are still spouting off the same nonsense as if it is still 1999.

I agree that the highways in BC are not the best overall in the world, but they are far from as terrible as you guys paint them to be with you bizarre "bash anything that is BC" mentalities. Seriously, you guys are jokes.

Also I agree that we need more highways in BC, and over the last 10 years we have had some of the nation's largest highway and bridge projects upgrading our highways far above from what they were before. And now we have an entire new batch of highway projects totaling billions of dollars in investement (the projects posted are easily over 5 billion dollars together for the Vancouver region alone). Yet, none of that ever phases up guys.

It is fun to watch sometimes. Example, the #1 gateway project had the highway expanded to 8 lanes (10 for 3km) with a massive bridge, all new interchanges with large flyovers, HOV and bus only ramp systems, etc... Everything that Libtard would complain about not having, but did he say anything good? Nope. Instead he bitched about strange aspects such as his obsession with jersey barriers (and hilarious belief that only BC uses them) and that the concrete freshly poured for the bridge pillars were "stained with water" Yes, that was a real complaint he had. So who is the fucking troll with an obsessive agenda?

And yes, a multi layered interchanged stacked high with fully elevated ramps (no landfill ) over a proposed 10 lane freeway abutting against a massive 3KM long bridge with a bus transfer station built in the middle of it is more impressive than the sprawled interchanges in the prairies that you mentioned, with they limited use of actual large ramps and flyovers (instead using mostly landfill with short overpasses).

Seriously, can you and ssiguy just leave BC if you hate it so much already!

Done rant, not posting updates on here anymore if this is the only reactions and comments I get.

[Corndogger]

Originally Posted by Metro-One

Haha, calling me a troll over this? Really? I guess everyone on the skyline page is a troll as well.

You and ssiguy are still spouting off the same nonsense as if it is still 1999.

I agree that the highways in BC are not the best overall in the world, but they are far from as terrible as you guys paint them to be with you bizarre "bash anything that is BC" mentalities. Seriously, you guys are jokes.

Also I agree that we need more highways in BC, and over the last 10 years we have had some of the nation's largest highway and bridge projects upgrading our highways far above from what they were before. And now we have an entire new batch of highway projects totaling billions of dollars in investement (the projects posted are easily over 5 billion dollars together for the Vancouver region alone). Yet, none of that ever phases up guys.

It is fun to watch sometimes. Example, the #1 gateway project had the highway expanded to 8 lanes (10 for 3km) with a massive bridge, all new interchanges with large flyovers, HOV and bus only ramp systems, etc... Everything that Libtard would complain about not having, but did he say anything good? Nope. Instead he bitched about strange aspects such as his obsession with jersey barriers (and hilarious belief that only BC uses them) and that the concrete freshly poured for the bridge pillars were "stained with water" Yes, that was a real complaint he had. So who is the fucking troll with an obsessive agenda?

And yes, a multi layered interchanged stacked high with fully elevated ramps (no landfill ) over a proposed 10 lane freeway abutting against a massive 3KM long bridge with a bus transfer station built in the middle of it is more impressive than the sprawled interchanges in the prairies that you mentioned, with they limited use of actual large ramps and flyovers (instead using mostly landfill with short overpasses).

Seriously, can you and ssiguy just leave BC if you hate it so much already!

Done rant, not posting updates on here anymore if this is the only reactions and comments I get.

The projects the BC government has been and proposes to build are impressive for the most part. The interchange you're referring to in particular looks very cool but to say it's the most impressive by far is subjective. Why are sprawling interchanges not impressive? To have high speed ramps you need to have big loops. As for using landfill, why not use it when you can? It saves money and makes the ramps safer in icy weather.

Construction has started in Calgary on the next leg of the 201. It's going to have some big interchange complexes. In certain aspects more impressive than what Vancouver's getting but it's all subjective. As far as I'm concerned the key is that cities in Canada for the most part are finally getting some decent road infrastructure.

By the way, what happened to all the renderings you posted? Don't let a few posters drive you away. Calling you a troll because they think you're a homer is ridiculous. I've always enjoyed your posts in this forum because they are on topic and I like getting your take on things even if I don't always totally agree with what you say.

[urbancanadian]

As far at Metro Vancouver is concerned, I would say that there is a bit of an outdated misconception that the freeway system is bad. The freeway system is small, sure. But that's by design as the region has prioritized creating a region of shorter commutes, as well as some unique geography and the political leanings of the populace.

Essentially there are three main freeways in the region:

Highway 1: Was just rebuilt nearly from end to end. It's now a very modern roadway by any standard. The eastern-most section (east of 208th Street) is gradually being expanded and modernized towards Abbotsford. The western-most section on the north shore is probably now the biggest issue. The section north of the Ironworkers Memorial Bridge is going to be completely rebuilt starting soon. West of there could be better but it's tricky because it's built on the side of a mountain which means it's going to be enormously expensive to expand, let alone any expropriation costs.

Highway 91: This is arguably our first freeway built to modern standards. It's generally only two lanes each way but allows for more. The biggest issue is the stoplight at 72nd Avenue which has been the result of a dispute between the Province and Delta on the design of an interchange. This has now been resolved and an interchange is planned.

Highway 99: This is now by far the worst freeway in the region design-wise. It has a 50s-era design with a hodgepodge of outside bus lanes, counter-flow lanes, a scary tunnel, and other fun stuff. The section from the Oak Street Bridge to Highway 91 (south) is being completely rebuilt to very modern standards, much like was done with Highway 1. The southern section will probably be widened as phase 2, but it still functions quite well and would only need to see a couple overpasses rebuilt for the widening.

There are a couple freeway stubs (Knight Street, Highway 91a, Golden Ears Way) which are all perfectly fine. The last two are pretty much brand new.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Highway 17 (SFPR) is a rare, newly built highway which was originally supposed to be a freeway, but was downgraded to save on costs. This road is hit or miss, as most roads seem to be in their first iteration in Vancouver. Less than half the interchanges were built, but will be built as needed (some already are).

***The thing is, no government is going to risk building an expensive new 6-lane freeway through farmland in Metro Vancouver. There are too many political issues that this runs. First, spending that kind of money on road infrastructure would cause many to wonder if it's too much and not enough on transit (a BIG issue right now). Second, the public might be skeptical of an "unproven" new route, preferring money to be spent upgrading existing bottlenecks. Third, the loss of agricultural land is a very important topic to many voters. Removing too much of it at once might turn the public against the government.

All of these issues (among others) combine to create the reality that is building new roads in Metro Vancouver. It needs to be done incrementally or you might not get a chance to build another one.

[Metro-One]

Great summary! Looking forward to seeing the first official diagrams for converting the SFPR intersections to interchanges. I still have all the original interchange designs so it will be interesting to see if they expand on them at all in the end (I hope this for Sunbury).

Originally Posted by Corndogger

The projects the BC government has been and proposes to build are impressive for the most part. The interchange you're referring to in particular looks very cool but to say it's the most impressive by far is subjective. Why are sprawling interchanges not impressive? To have high speed ramps you need to have big loops. As for using landfill, why not use it when you can? It saves money and makes the ramps safer in icy weather.

Construction has started in Calgary on the next leg of the 201. It's going to have some big interchange complexes. In certain aspects more impressive than what Vancouver's getting but it's all subjective. As far as I'm concerned the key is that cities in Canada for the most part are finally getting some decent road infrastructure.

By the way, what happened to all the renderings you posted? Don't let a few posters drive you away. Calling you a troll because they think you're a homer is ridiculous. I've always enjoyed your posts in this forum because they are on topic and I like getting your take on things even if I don't always totally agree with what you say.

Thanks for that, was having not the best day at work and in return got a little thin skinned on this forum. I can handle ssiguy (because while I do feel he has a bizarre view on things, he at least talks about various topics) but libtard honestly does feel like a troll who follows me and does weird things.

For example (forget which thread it is) but months ago there was a discussion either about suburban skylines or transit based suburban nodes and I mentioned that all the growing suburban skylines in Metro-Van help create a big city vibe. Weeks went by (possibly over a month) and that small non-consequential post became buried deep in the thread. Out of nowhere Libtard found that post (did he directly search for posts by me or did he go deep through the thread page by page??) quoted it, and said "Nothing in Vancouver is big city." Completely out of context of the current conversation (or several between). That was all he said, nothing more, no other posts. I knew he did that just to annoy me, but it comes off as a disturbed person IMO. And he always makes sure to spout the same rhetoric every time I post an update on this thread, and then calls me a troll for doing so... its annoying, but in the end I feel sad for the guy.

As for your post, now there is some constructive potential for a conversation. I have seen some of the diagrams for the new interchanges in Calgary (and of course what has recently been built in Calgary and Edmonton) and while I can definitely see someone making the case for them to be the most impressive in Western Canada (along with the Cape Horn) the new Steveston interchange will have them all beat IMO. Just my preference, I have always found multi-stacked interchanges with fully elevated ramps much more impressive than those that utilize mostly at grand land fill. Hence I have always found the Turcot Interchange the most impressive looking in Canada (along with the amazing highway jumble at Pearson Airport) and not where the 401 meets the 403 or where the 401 meets the 427, etc... Yes those are big and sprawling with wide highways, but they are not impressive and visually boring in comparison IMO. Also, a stated before, the Steveston will be abutting against a large 3 km long 10 lane wide bridge and a rapid bus depot in the heart of it. For me, this adds even more engineering interest to the interchange, potentially making it the most impressive in Western Canada. Not saying that anyone who feels different is wrong But I also feel that the case I have made is not just "homerism" or "trolling" hahaha! For me it is not how much ground an interchange covers, but how complicated the engineering looks to be and how layered it is. Hence some of the most impressive interchanges in the world IMO are actually really tight, where two elevated freeways will meet each other in the middle of a city canyon (see Tokyo or Osaka, or countless cities in China).

I will re-post all the diagrams sometime tomorrow when I got a bit more extra time to assemble them all together again. I will also try and get some more info on those projects (and diagrams) when I do this time around.

[swimmer_spe]

I have lived in Nova Scotia, BC and Ontario. I have driven through all province except for NL. I have not been in the Territories.

Divided highways in Canada are a joke. Besides Ontario and Quebec, most other provinces do not have much. Even Ontario a Quebec are lacking.

Nothing in BC, or anything west of Ontario impresses me about the highways, except the Port Mann Bridge.

Vancouver, and BC on a whole is anti freeway. The upside is, it has caused them to have the longest Rapid Transit in the country - Skytrain. Currently it is larger than the TTC subway and Montreal Metro.

BC uses movable K rail for the centre median on it's freeways. Doing so in Ontario outside of being temporary is illegal.

Only one province currently has a freeway end to end of their province. That would be Highway 2 in New Brunswick. Soon Quebec will finish A 85, and then they will have a network that goes between the borders.

Ontario has the most freeways in Canada. It has the widest freeway in North America at 18 lanes wide - 401 at the Airport. It has some amazing 4 stack interchanges. Those allow you to maintain highway speed when going from one freeway to the next. And we are still building more freeways. Highway 400 is being extended north. It should be continuous to Sudbury within the next 10-20 years. Highway 417 is being extended west as well. It likely will reach Sudbury at the 400 in about 20 years. If it were built to the Manitoba border, that would mean replacing 1700km of 2 lane highway. That likely could happen in the next 50 years.

The best city to get around in by freeway is - Montreal. It has more freeways than other cities, and they go everywhere. Toronto is lacking in a few places due to the cancellation of some of it's urban freeways in the 60s and 70s.

So, people from BC, talk to me when you have a freeway over 6 lanes on one side of your freeway. Talk to me when you have a 4 stack interchange. Talk to me when you pour concrete for your barriers, instead of using temporary K rails.

Or, you could just be civil about it, and talk about new and improvements and not about how you are the best, or have the best things. Because, on this "Highways in Canada" thread, you don't.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by libtard

Can someone please ban this troll?? Seriously take your homer glasses off. "by far the most impressive in western Canada"? Even if the new steveston interchange does get built as shown it wouldn't be "by far the most impressive". I was born and raised in Richmond but I can admit Anothony Henday Dr. & No.2 in Edmonton is just as impressive. With a much larger foot print and better engineered/gradual flyovers/fly-unders.

No one is getting banned for having an opinion and expressing it rationally.

Calm down and have a constructive discussion or don't comment at all.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

I have lived in Nova Scotia, BC and Ontario. I have driven through all province except for NL. I have not been in the Territories.

I'll weigh in on this since I grew up out west, have lived outsite Canada and have spent the last 10+ years in Ontario.

BC has a long and storied history of building shitty highways, there's no way about that. With that said they seem to be learning from their mistakes and their last round of expansion has been much better. Let's take a look at their latest projects:

• Golden Ears Bridge: Great approaches, wonderful bridge. My only qualm, would have liked a completely freeflowing interchange with Hghway 1 and the SFPR.
• Highway 1: Well executed and well planned and built with future expansion in mind. Nothing but good things here.
• Pitt River Bridge: Great bridge, with an excellent interchange system on the west bank. Went from constantly on the traffic reports to never being on the traffic reports.
• SFPR: A botch job. Value engineered to the point of absurdity. This is classic old BC freeway building, under-built from day one with limited expansion capacity. Frustrating they blew this one so badly.
• Highway 99 expansion: Plans look near perfect given the corridors configuration. If they execute this according to plan it will be one of the best built stretches of freeway in Canda.

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

So, people from BC, talk to me when you have a freeway over 6 lanes on one side of your freeway. Talk to me when you have a 4 stack interchange. Talk to me when you pour concrete for your barriers, instead of using temporary K rails.

I have an issue with this. Bigger is absolutely not better. The 401 is one of the biggest dumpster fires I have ever seen, full stop. Having lived in Singapore where the island is beautifully served with a fullsome system of well planned 6-8 lane freeways that rarely ever see traffic I would much prefer to that than one 16 lane parking lot.

Given the complex geography of Vancouver, a network of 3+1HOV lane freeways makes infinitely more sense than some hulking freeways that don't really work but look 'impressive'.

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

I have an issue with this. Bigger is absolutely not better. The 401 is one of the biggest dumpster fires I have ever seen, full stop. Having lived in Singapore where the island is beautifully served with a fullsome system of well planned 6-8 lane freeways that rarely ever see traffic I would much prefer to that than one 16 lane parking lot.

The per-capita car ownership rate in Singapore is 12 cars per 100 people (or 1 car per 8.25 people)

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

I'll weigh in on this since I grew up out west, have lived outsite Canada and have spent the last 10+ years in Ontario.

BC has a long and storied history of building shitty highways, there's no way about that. With that said they seem to be learning from their mistakes and their last round of expansion has been much better. Let's take a look at their latest projects:

• Golden Ears Bridge: Great approaches, wonderful bridge. My only qualm, would have liked a completely freeflowing interchange with Hghway 1 and the SFPR.
• Highway 1: Well executed and well planned and built with future expansion in mind. Nothing but good things here.
• Pitt River Bridge: Great bridge, with an excellent interchange system on the west bank. Went from constantly on the traffic reports to never being on the traffic reports.
• SFPR: A botch job. Value engineered to the point of absurdity. This is classic old BC freeway building, under-built from day one with limited expansion capacity. Frustrating they blew this one so badly.
• Highway 99 expansion: Plans look near perfect given the corridors configuration. If they execute this according to plan it will be one of the best built stretches of freeway in Canda.

I have an issue with this. Bigger is absolutely not better. The 401 is one of the biggest dumpster fires I have ever seen, full stop. Having lived in Singapore where the island is beautifully served with a fullsome system of well planned 6-8 lane freeways that rarely ever see traffic I would much prefer to that than one 16 lane parking lot.

Given the complex geography of Vancouver, a network of 3+1HOV lane freeways makes infinitely more sense than some hulking freeways that don't really work but look 'impressive'.

If Toronto had 3 times as much RT as it has now, then Singapore would be a good comparison. The subway is about 70km in Toronto, whereas it is almost 200km in Singapore.

[sonysnob]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

Nothing in BC, or anything west of Ontario impresses me about the highways, except the Port Mann Bridge.

I agree with this sentiment completely. While I really like the Port Man project, and would be very impressed with the Highway 99 project if it goes ahead, nothing west of Ontario really impresses me either.

BC also tends to build poorly designed rural four lane roads as well. Take the recent work underway that has been underway to four lane Highway 97 through the interior. Despite the fact that the topography is fairly tame, many stretches of the highway are being build with a paved flush median. Seems like kind of a waste too me.

I'll say though, that I think Ontario has a mentality that because we have the 401 that we don't need any more roads. I think that mentality is flawed, and I don't think the only way to traverse southern Ontario quickly be road should take all travelers right through the heart of Toronto. If I were king for a day, I'd build another road somewhere further north to carry east west traffic that isn't bound for Toronto well outside the city limits.

[Innsertnamehere]

singapore places ridiculous taxes and limits on annual car sales - its not a market based level of car ownership.

[LeftCoaster]

Yes they limit the number of cars and design the city around that. It's a wonderful system that works incredibly well.

I don't know what the nit picking of Singapore's situation has to do with the fact that all I said was bigger isn't always better and that I think their solution would work well for Vancouver.

Vancouver doesn't need 16 lane wide highways and I doubt it ever will.

Originally Posted by sonysnob

If I were king for a day, I'd build another road somewhere further north to carry east west traffic that isn't bound for Toronto well outside the city limits.

So you'd build the 407?

[sonysnob]

^ I'd make the Brandford By-pass a much longer highway, and keep it out of the GTA for as much of its length as I could.

[LeftCoaster]

Originally Posted by swimmer_spe

If Toronto had 3 times as much RT as it has now, then Singapore would be a good comparison. The subway is about 70km in Toronto, whereas it is almost 200km in Singapore.

No one is comparing Toronto to Singapore?

I said Singapore's system isn't big and still works. I think that is what Vancouver should be trying to emulate, not Toronto.

[sonysnob]

Going back to BC for a second, I'm going to further explain my point of view with a screen shot from Google Street view.

https://www.google.ca/maps/@49.093773,-1...neKgl8w!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1?hl=en

To me, this is such an ugly highway. The bridge rail at the top of the overpass doesn't match the dimensions of the concrete beneath it. The central pier is way too narrow, and looks flimsy compared to the thick slab of concrete that it supports. The closed end bridge abutments make the highway seem like it's in a much more constrained environment that it needs to, and the k-rail barriers are just ugly. Pre-cast barriers don't have to be as ugly as the ones BC uses, but they are.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

So you'd build the 407?

If the 407 was not a toll highway, it would have eased congestion off the 401.

Originally Posted by LeftCoaster

No one is comparing Toronto to Singapore?

I said Singapore's system isn't big and still works. I think that is what Vancouver should be trying to emulate, not Toronto.

Singapore's system is large. They have double the population, yet triple the transit.

[Innsertnamehere]

the 407 did ease 401 congestion. There is a lot of traffic on it.

It would not have made the 401 free flow. the 401 is the busiest highway on the planet, its beyond help.