Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by SFUVancouver

...I bought a set of Michelin X-Ice xi3 and have been very happy with their performance so far on three round-trip winter Vancouver-Kelowna runs, including a storm that effectively closed the highway and I had hours of un-plowed snow to drive through.

I've been very happy with mine, too. I went out on several runs to shoot Christmas lights and a few of those trips took me up some fairly steep unplowed residential streets. The Michelins had no problems coping with the compacted snow and ice on those streets. I'm quite impressed with them. They're light years ahead of the older Goodyear F32-S snow tires on my other vehicle.

[retro_orange]

Originally Posted by logan5

Cant you put chains on buses? Cheap and quick to install i presume.

That's what I was thinking, forget all this nonsense with winter tires or a spare fleet of buses. Chains take up significantly less space to store if you only need them every 5 years.

Just a couple days ago i saw a firetruck with chains on it's tires, and they're very common on large trucks and semi's, no reason buses can't have them. Sometimes the most simple answer is the best, the chains also act to crack and break up the ice on the road surface as they spin.

[jlousa]

Chains in Vancouver are a terrible idea. We barely get any snow cover so the chains would just chew up the asphalt. Stay home for a day, two at most until the roads become passable on decent all seasons.
I used to drive around in a 400whp awd talon that only had performance summer tires and never had issue in the snow, just lots of fun.

[retro_orange]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Chains in Vancouver are a terrible idea. We barely get any snow cover so the chains would just chew up the asphalt. Stay home for a day, two at most until the roads become passable on decent all seasons.
I used to drive around in a 400whp awd talon that only had performance summer tires and never had issue in the snow, just lots of fun.

Meh. That's called "job security" for those who fix the roads.

[jsbertram]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Chains in Vancouver are a terrible idea. We barely get any snow cover so the chains would just chew up the asphalt. Stay home for a day, two at most until the roads become passable on decent all seasons.
I used to drive around in a 400whp awd talon that only had performance summer tires and never had issue in the snow, just lots of fun.

For the buses, they can be used for a week .. or two ... or three. however long the snomageddon lasts.

They could be installed only on the buses being used on routes with 'horrid hills' ie: SFU

once the weather is back to Vancouver normal (above zero), chains get put back in storage until the next blast of real canadian winter

[WBC]

Gondolas people...Gondolas...If the last 4 weeks of snow have thought us anything is that we need more gondolas...

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by jlousa

Chains in Vancouver are a terrible idea. We barely get any snow cover so the chains would just chew up the asphalt.

You don't have to leave the chains on all winter. You put them on right after a big snowstorm and you take them off again as soon as city crews have cleared the roads on each affected bus route.

It's no different in principle than putting the steel contactor shoes in the poles of the first trolleys out in the morning to cut the frost off the wires, then swapping them out for the normal carbon shoes when they reach their terminus.

[AMTDGT]

Originally Posted by jsbertram

For the buses, they can be used for a week .. or two ... or three. however long the snomageddon lasts.

They could be installed only on the buses being used on routes with 'horrid hills' ie: SFU

once the weather is back to Vancouver normal (above zero), chains get put back in storage until the next blast of real canadian winter

I can remember 40-50-almost 60 years ago chains on busses including on the dogs......I suspect the wimps today would scream loud and hard that their normally smooth bus ride on a chain equipped bus was just so rough they had back aches and neck aches and brain aches, that the overly afraid of the useless BC press translink would never put chains on busses......Maybe if that (IMO) idiot moonbeam stopped giving away salt, the roads with hills could be salted properly.....on the other hand, just maybe people should be responsible for their own actions. e.g. One of our kids lives on a Vancouver Main Street with a hill. They with their partner used to go out and help folks stuck on the hill until they realized that most of the stuck people had bald or summer tires. So they stopped helping. As they said, "why should we hurt our backs for idiots".....caveat We bailed out moon beamville for snow town at the end of the summer. Ain't nobody here having problems with the snow.
I know that is a bit unfair to a lot of you that have city centric jobs like we used to have. It is funny though, that our kids seem to bailing out of the office to work remotely out of our guest rooms, which is an unwanted draw on our wine cellar....argghhhh.....they seem to expect us to pay their plane fare as well. Apparently they are wimps and for some reason can't take the dog like we used to when we were kids......

[jollyburger]

Oregon installed 200 of their buses with those automatic chain systems though some of the reviews were mixed during a storm last year.

[Kisai]

Originally Posted by retro_orange

Meh. That's called "job security" for those who fix the roads.

In some cases I would say it's justified chewing up the roads anyway. The major roads get cleared faster, and the chains get removed faster then.

At any rate, even if the chains were reserved only for "evacuation buses" (eg rescuing those up at SFU and various other school and medical facilities) it would still be justified.

But in SFU's specific case, a Gondola makes the most critical problem moot. That is the only place in Metro Vancouver that a heavy vehicle has a high probability of an accident, and everything possible should be done to prevent accidents and marooning people at the school.

[logan5]

Chains on buses in NYC. Looks to be even less severe road conditions than in Vancouver lately. Buses can go up on a lift and have them installed in 2 minutes.
• Video Link

[CanSpice]

Originally Posted by AMTDGT

I can remember 40-50-almost 60 years ago chains on busses including on the dogs......I suspect the wimps today would scream loud and hard that their normally smooth bus ride on a chain equipped bus was just so rough they had back aches and neck aches and brain aches, that the overly afraid of the useless BC press translink would never put chains on busses......Maybe if that (IMO) idiot moonbeam stopped giving away salt, the roads with hills could be salted properly.....on the other hand, just maybe people should be responsible for their own actions. e.g. One of our kids lives on a Vancouver Main Street with a hill. They with their partner used to go out and help folks stuck on the hill until they realized that most of the stuck people had bald or summer tires. So they stopped helping. As they said, "why should we hurt our backs for idiots".....caveat We bailed out moon beamville for snow town at the end of the summer. Ain't nobody here having problems with the snow.
I know that is a bit unfair to a lot of you that have city centric jobs like we used to have. It is funny though, that our kids seem to bailing out of the office to work remotely out of our guest rooms, which is an unwanted draw on our wine cellar....argghhhh.....they seem to expect us to pay their plane fare as well. Apparently they are wimps and for some reason can't take the dog like we used to when we were kids......

...so I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time.

[SFUVancouver]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

...so I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time.

Dear Mr. President, there are too many states nowadays. Please eliminate three... I am NOT a crackpot.

[twoNeurons]

Originally Posted by CanSpice

Not quite sure what you're talking about because snow tires aren't really a thing any more. There are winter tires, all-weather tires, and all-season tires. TransLink uses all-season tires, and they don't switch because, despite what you think, they cost too much to purchase, store, and switch.

Yep, which is what I said. That buses would use winter tires, not snow tires... if they were to switch them out.

In any case, it really depends on the rubber in the tires. Winter tires are designed to be best performant in winter weather... that doesn't always mean snow, but it does mean lower temperatures (< 10ºC usually). All-seasons rated for M+S mean they're legally allowed to be used in the winter on some routes (up to Whistler, for example). Most people in Vancouver have these kinds of tires anyhow.

For the record, I don't think they should change to Winter tires for buses either ( apart from designating a few buses up hilly routes, which I think should get more winter-y tires up hills )

The point I was making is that Winter tires are better in heavy Winter rains as well. It's more to do with the temperature rating. All-seasons aren't as soft at lower temperatures, so they lose traction ( even on cold wet roads ).

There are true studded snow tires, but they're not useful around here.

From a private citizen's POV, The TRUE cost of Winter tires are buying an extra set of RIMs and storing them. They're balanced on the RIM, so don't need rebalancing when installed. Since you don't use your all-seasons when your winter tires are in use, they get more life out of them.

For buses, it's mainly about where to stockpile them, when to switch over ( based on temperature, not weather ) and the time to switch the winter RIMs over. For the most part in Vancouver, a good lower-temperature All-Season is sufficient, although they will tend not to last as long in the summer.

[dharper]

With it being only 4 months until the Provincial election, we should start to see many transportation projects started, or finished, to "scratch the voters backs".

Connector between Hwy 17 and Golden Ears Way
216th Interchange on Hwy 1
Bridge to replace George Massey Tunnel
Highway 91 Interchange at 72nd Avenue

Any others?

[GeeCee]

Originally Posted by dharper

With it being only 4 months until the Provincial election, we should start to see many transportation projects started, or finished, to "scratch the voters backs".

Connector between Hwy 17 and Golden Ears Way
216th Interchange on Hwy 1
Bridge to replace George Massey Tunnel
Highway 91 Interchange at 72nd Avenue

Any others?

None of these are transit projects.. perhaps the Road Infrastructure discussion thread? The Evergreen line is finished, that's all we're likely to get.

[dharper]

Originally Posted by dharper

With it being only 4 months until the Provincial election, we should start to see many transportation projects started, or finished, to "scratch the voters backs".

Connector between Hwy 17 and Golden Ears Way
216th Interchange on Hwy 1
Bridge to replace George Massey Tunnel
Highway 91 Interchange at 72nd Avenue

Any others?

Sorry. Wrong thread. It is moved now. Feel free to erase.

[jollyburger]

If you were ever curious how switches work on the trolley buses (from a Seattle PoV)

https://www.theurbanist.org/2014/07/02/i-dont-know-what-a-trolley-is-part-ii/

[Millennium2002]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

If you were ever curious how switches work on the trolley buses (from a Seattle PoV)

https://www.theurbanist.org/2014/07/02/i-dont-know-what-a-trolley-is-part-ii/

On the switching part, Vancouver doesn't quite work like this. IIRC we use an older switching system that trips when the bus draws more current. This used to be controlled by the acceleration pedal; nowadays, they use a "power/coast" switch beside the window to trigger it instead. You'll notice when walking around Vancouver that there are "POWER" signs with an arrow hanging beside some switches... in most cases going straight has to coast, but not always... and thus these aids let drivers know when to trigger the switch.

[Alex Mackinnon]

There is a note at the bottom that says that. There's another one that say that our New Flyers are the "gold standard" for trolley busses.