Highways in Canada

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by vid

Highway 11 in the GTA was replaced by Highway 400. But that won't work now because they extended Highway 400 up Highway 69 instead of Highway 11. They've been upgrading Highway 11 in places but the number has stayed 11 and I don't see them upgrading it any time soon since Highway 400 carries most of the traffic.

Renumbering the highways will only apply to parts already connected to a highway with that number, the route between Thunder Bay and Nipigon isn't going to become 411/417 once it's finished being twinned. And I hope in the future if they do renumber them they just give it its own name because 11/17 is hard enough to explain.

If I could renumber all the routes in Northern Ontario, I'd probably give Highway 17 the highway 1 designation, end Highway 11 at Nipigon, and renumber 11 in NWO, 61, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 69, 71, and 72 as 111, 161, 163, 164, 165, 166, 167, 169, 171 and 172. Any 500 and 600 series highways with a minimum threshold of traffic or that connects an important community would be upgraded to the 100 series. And I'm pretty sure that there are enough vacancies in the 500s at this point that all the 600s could be renumbered into that range. It's weird that we skipped the 200s and 300s entirely.

And not many people know this but Ontario has highways with numbers in the 7000s, they're mostly important links of road that the MTOs manages which are either not part of a highway, or are a highway stretch that has a specific name (like the Thunder Bay Expressway) and the designation only applies to the portion where that name applies. And again why they numbered them in the 7000s (the 700s would probably have been fine? There are only about 40 of them) is beyond me.

I like how Quebec renumbered its highways in the early 1970s. But I don't think it would be easy to do in Ontario. A grid or clustered numbering could be done here.

As for Hwy 17, more people here refer to it as Hwy 17 and not simply the Trans-Canada Highway. And of course other highways make up the Trans-Canada system so it's not that simple. It drives me crazy when my Magellan GPS refers to ANY of the highways that have the Trans-Canada designation as "TC" with no highway number.

As for the 7000 series roads, many but not all are shown when you look at the MTO's Winter road conditions. I've too always wondered how why they chose the 7000s. My guess is that they wanted it to be very different from the other series and having four digits allowed for them to have a larger inventory.

[GreaterMontréal]

Quebec has the Autoroute system (2298.5 km), but it also has a provincial highway ''Route'' system.

100's series - Primary highways

Secondary highways

200-series (South of the St.Lawrence River)
300-series (North of the St.Lawrence River)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Quebec_provincial_highways

Autoroute


Route


Bike trail (Trans-Quebec) 5000km

[Loco101]

I like how Quebec keeps and funds its highways that get replaced by a freeway unlike what Ontario did by transferring them to municipalities. It's especially great for tourism and I sometimes drive them along the St. Lawrence.

[Innsertnamehere]

^ gotta disagree. Once a highway has a freeway alternative, it no longer serves a provincial purpose and should be maintained locally.

What I don't like about Ontario was the downloading of a lot of highways to municipalities that happened 20 years ago.. a lot of those highways still serve a provincial purpose.

Ontario badly needs a "rationalization" of its provincial highway network.. not only are there a lot of municipal roads that were downloaded that badly need to be "reuploaded", but there are a lot of regional roads that serve provincial purposes that were never provincial highways that really should be uploaded and given a provincial designation.

[swimmer_spe]

Originally Posted by vid

Highway 11 in the GTA was replaced by Highway 400. But that won't work now because they extended Highway 400 up Highway 69 instead of Highway 11. They've been upgrading Highway 11 in places but the number has stayed 11 and I don't see them upgrading it any time soon since Highway 400 carries most of the traffic.

Renumbering the highways will only apply to parts already connected to a highway with that number, the route between Thunder Bay and Nipigon isn't going to become 411/417 once it's finished being twinned. And I hope in the future if they do renumber them they just give it its own name because 11/17 is hard enough to explain.

If I could renumber all the routes in Northern Ontario, I'd probably give Highway 17 the highway 1 designation, end Highway 11 at Nipigon, and renumber 11 in NWO, 61, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 69, 71, and 72 as 111, 161, 163, 164, 165, 166, 167, 169, 171 and 172. Any 500 and 600 series highways with a minimum threshold of traffic or that connects an important community would be upgraded to the 100 series. And I'm pretty sure that there are enough vacancies in the 500s at this point that all the 600s could be renumbered into that range. It's weird that we skipped the 200s and 300s entirely.

And not many people know this but Ontario has highways with numbers in the 7000s, they're mostly important links of road that the MTOs manages which are either not part of a highway, or are a highway stretch that has a specific name (like the Thunder Bay Expressway) and the designation only applies to the portion where that name applies. And again why they numbered them in the 7000s (the 700s would probably have been fine? There are only about 40 of them) is beyond me.

They haven't relabeled Highway 11 because it is not up to 400 standards. They are planning to bypass the RIRO section south of Gravenhurst in the future. When that happens it might get renumbered.

Up until 1998, Highway 11 and 400 existed south of Barrie. Remember, Yonge St is the old highway 11.

[GreaterMontréal]

gotta disagree. Once a highway has a freeway alternative

In Quebec there is no such thing as a freeway of Highway or ... we call it ''Route'' or ''Autoroute''. maintained by the MTQ.

Maintained by the MTQ

Autoroutes (the same principle of controlled access as the Interstate Highway System in the United States and the 400-series highways in neighbouring Ontario.)
Routes nationales (Linking major urban areas, but are not Autoroute)
Routes régionales (These roads connect the secondary urban agglomerations with each other and between them and the main cities.)
Routes collectrices (Routes linking rural agglomerations with each other and with urban centers nearby, or secondary links between small urban centers.)

Maintained by the municipalities
Routes locales niveau 1 (They connect rural centers with each other.)
Routes locales niveau 2 (They provide access to permanently inhabited rural properties.)
Routes locales niveau 3 (The residential streets of cities are also part of this class.)

[Acajack]

Not sure how big it was compared to what Ontario did, but Quebec did download portions of provincial highways to municipalities. In many cases, you had an autoroute and a secondary highway running more or less parallel, so they dowloaded the secondary highway to the city. And then they tacked on the secondary highway's number to the autoroute, in a "multiplex". So Route 148 in parts of Gatineau is now multiplexed with A-50, whereas before they were two entirely separate roads.

[GreaterMontréal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Not sure how big it was compared to what Ontario did, but Quebec did download portions of provincial highways to municipalities. In many cases, you had an autoroute and a secondary highway running more or less parallel, so they dowloaded the secondary highway to the city. And then they tacked on the secondary highway's number to the autoroute, in a "multiplex". So Route 148 in parts of Gatineau is now multiplexed with A-50, whereas before they were two entirely separate roads.

Si la route est provinciale à l'intérieur de la city limit et que la ville songe à installer des feux de circulation, le MTQ va devoir donner son approbation et ensuite fera les travaux.

[GreaterMontréal]

The golden hour by Michael Berry, sur Flickr

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

^ gotta disagree. Once a highway has a freeway alternative, it no longer serves a provincial purpose and should be maintained locally.

What I don't like about Ontario was the downloading of a lot of highways to municipalities that happened 20 years ago.. a lot of those highways still serve a provincial purpose.

Ontario badly needs a "rationalization" of its provincial highway network.. not only are there a lot of municipal roads that were downloaded that badly need to be "reuploaded", but there are a lot of regional roads that serve provincial purposes that were never provincial highways that really should be uploaded and given a provincial designation.

In most cases, I would agree that highways bypassed by freeways don't need to be provincial highways anymore, with a couple exceptions. It depends on how far away the old highway is from the new freeway, and the population served by the old highway. I'm thinking specifically of Highway 2 between London and Chatham, which is more direct than the 401. However in most of Ontario Highway 2 ran only 1-2 km away from the 401 and was redundant as a provincial route. One could argue that Highway 11 south of Barrie ran far enough away from Highway 400, but it's not practical as a long-distance route due to it being mostly urban once you reach Newmarket.

There are quite a few cases in Southern Ontario where there are significantly large gaps between provincial highways, despite a high road density. For example, there is no north-south provincial highway east of Highway 35/115 until Highway 62 at Belleville. There is also a lack of a north-south provincial highway between London and Kitchener.

There are also cases where roads cross through multiple jurisdictions, and the road is of little direct benefit to one or more of those jurisdictions. Ottawa Road 174/Prescott & Russell County Road 17 is one such example; much of the traffic originates in Prescott & Russell but the City of Ottawa must operate the section within their municipality. Another more rural example is the Orangeville southwest bypass, which is part of a long-distance route connecting Highway 10 to Arthur. Part of it passes through a section of Peel Region lying close to Orangeville and as such it is their responsibility, but it is of almost no benefit to Peel; it is of benefit to both Orangeville and communities to the west in Dufferin and Wellington Counties.

In Alberta, a guideline I've read is that Secondary Provincial Highways should be spaced no more than 18 miles (29 km) apart, except in lightly populated areas such as the north.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by vid

Highway 11 in the GTA was replaced by Highway 400. But that won't work now because they extended Highway 400 up Highway 69 instead of Highway 11. They've been upgrading Highway 11 in places but the number has stayed 11 and I don't see them upgrading it any time soon since Highway 400 carries most of the traffic.

Renumbering the highways will only apply to parts already connected to a highway with that number, the route between Thunder Bay and Nipigon isn't going to become 411/417 once it's finished being twinned. And I hope in the future if they do renumber them they just give it its own name because 11/17 is hard enough to explain.

If I could renumber all the routes in Northern Ontario, I'd probably give Highway 17 the highway 1 designation, end Highway 11 at Nipigon, and renumber 11 in NWO, 61, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 69, 71, and 72 as 111, 161, 163, 164, 165, 166, 167, 169, 171 and 172. Any 500 and 600 series highways with a minimum threshold of traffic or that connects an important community would be upgraded to the 100 series. And I'm pretty sure that there are enough vacancies in the 500s at this point that all the 600s could be renumbered into that range. It's weird that we skipped the 200s and 300s entirely.

And not many people know this but Ontario has highways with numbers in the 7000s, they're mostly important links of road that the MTOs manages which are either not part of a highway, or are a highway stretch that has a specific name (like the Thunder Bay Expressway) and the designation only applies to the portion where that name applies. And again why they numbered them in the 7000s (the 700s would probably have been fine? There are only about 40 of them) is beyond me.

I think 200 to 399 were probably reserved for more southern highways, but county road networks nullified that. I do like the thought of renumbering to a larger secondary system, expanding it to 500-999 (tertiary highways become secondary). Clustering probably makes most sense, with 500s in northern Ontario, 600s in central/near-northern Ontario, 700s in eastern Ontario, 800s in the Golden Horseshoe and 900s in southwestern Ontario. Also I do think northern Kings Highways should change - with the exception of 11 (south of Cochrane) and 17 (and 69 until upgraded), they should all get a 200 or 300 number, with the original numbers reassigned in the south. If 300 series are used:

6 (Manitoulin) - 368 (reflecting old 68)
11 (Cochrane to Nipigon) - 311
11 (Shabaqua to Rainy River) - 312
61 - 361
63 - 363
64 - 364
65 - 365
66 - 366
67 - 367
71 - 371
72 - 372
94 - 394
101 - 301
102 - 317
105 - 305
108 - 308
112 - 321
124 - 324
125 - 325
129 - 329
540 - 340 (where higher standard)
542 - 342 (where higher standard)
655 - 355

The 400s are well established as freeways so they shouldn't change though.

[eternallyme]

Originally Posted by manny_santos

In most cases, I would agree that highways bypassed by freeways don't need to be provincial highways anymore, with a couple exceptions. It depends on how far away the old highway is from the new freeway, and the population served by the old highway. I'm thinking specifically of Highway 2 between London and Chatham, which is more direct than the 401. However in most of Ontario Highway 2 ran only 1-2 km away from the 401 and was redundant as a provincial route. One could argue that Highway 11 south of Barrie ran far enough away from Highway 400, but it's not practical as a long-distance route due to it being mostly urban once you reach Newmarket.

There are quite a few cases in Southern Ontario where there are significantly large gaps between provincial highways, despite a high road density. For example, there is no north-south provincial highway east of Highway 35/115 until Highway 62 at Belleville. There is also a lack of a north-south provincial highway between London and Kitchener.

There are also cases where roads cross through multiple jurisdictions, and the road is of little direct benefit to one or more of those jurisdictions. Ottawa Road 174/Prescott & Russell County Road 17 is one such example; much of the traffic originates in Prescott & Russell but the City of Ottawa must operate the section within their municipality. Another more rural example is the Orangeville southwest bypass, which is part of a long-distance route connecting Highway 10 to Arthur. Part of it passes through a section of Peel Region lying close to Orangeville and as such it is their responsibility, but it is of almost no benefit to Peel; it is of benefit to both Orangeville and communities to the west in Dufferin and Wellington Counties.

In Alberta, a guideline I've read is that Secondary Provincial Highways should be spaced no more than 18 miles (29 km) apart, except in lightly populated areas such as the north.

Even if county or municipally-maintained, they should ideally be signed as provincial highways though. The current patchwork is a total mess.

[go_leafs_go02]

I don't ever see it happening, but Ontario needs to rethink the majority of its highway network and figure out the numbering system. It truly is a mess with county numbers, regional numbers, provincial numbers, etc. Basically the 400-series highways could be left alone, but everything else could be open for discussion.

It's ridiculous that somehow a provincial highway must be maintained by the province, rather than connect point a to point b. They had so many connecting links that did the job, and so many have been removed now or downloaded, creating gaps.

Highway 12 comes Durham Road 12 in the middle of nowhere. Highway 33 comes County Road 33 near Kingston, etc.

And then there are some very odd retained highways. Why was Highway 4, 73, 19, 59, and 24 all downloaded south of Highway 3, but Highway 6 keeps going to the metropolis of Port Dover.

How was Highway 41 between Highway 401 and Highway 7 downloaded, while Highway 37 was retained so close to Highway 62?

How is there such a huge no-mans' land of provincial highways in the 40 / 401 / 402 triangle? Here's a list of all former highways that used to exist in this area: 2, 4, 7, 21, 22, 76, 78, 79, 80, 81. All wiped out in the span of 8 months.

How does Highway 4 disappear through the City of London?

How was Highway 85 (used to be Highway 86) retained in Waterloo while Highway 126 was downloaded in London?

How does Highway 420 stop 1 km away from an international border crossing and become "Regional Road 420" for the last gap.

How does Highway 20 exist for less than 2 km and connect a stub of Highway 58 that doesn't connect to the other part of Highway 58, and the other end of Highway 20 turns into "Regional Road 20". How is there is no signage by the province letting vehicles know that Regional Road 20 continues just past Highway 20, in less than 2 km.

How is Highway 9 carved into two segments and connected with a Regional Road 109?

How does Highway 3 end within a few kilometers of the QEW and the Peace Bridge (Fort Erie)?

I know we live in a GPS based world, but a consistent numbering and wayfinding strategy still is very important.

It's really too bad that when the highway transfers were happening, they didn't consider changing the designation of what a "KINGS HIGHWAY" would mean, and instead, perhaps municipalities / counties to put their name above the route number in the space formerly allocated to "THE KING'S HIGHWAY". It would have retained the highway network, and still, after 20 years, downloaded highways in rural areas are called "HIGHWAY #" even if it's designated as a different number as a regional road. Talk about confusing for newcomers or tourists.

On a final note, it is the MTO's 100th anniversary / birthday. Perhaps it would be wise to contact Minister Steven Del Duca to request the cleaning-up and restoration of Ontario's Highway system as part of the anniversary. Contact information here: http://www.ontla.on.ca/web/members/members_detail.do?locale=en&ID=7205

[wave46]

The provincial downloading of the late 1990s really screwed things up.

There were some downloads that were logical (ex. Highway 11 south of the 400) that were primarily serving local traffic.

The most illogical one to me is Highway 9 - from the 400 to Orangeville it's 9, then becomes Wellington 109, then back to Ontario Highway 9 at the junction of Highway 89 and 23. Why?

There also was some illogical renumbering (Highway 68 on Manitoulin Island became part of Highway 6 somehow).

At this point, I'll settle for consistent numbering - whether it's maintained by the province or the county, I don't care.

[eternallyme]

How to redraw it would be to look at all county roads and provincial highways and renumber as follows:

2 - 399: Kings' highways
* The oldest/most important southern highways would get the lowest numbers for the most part. Generally, lower number highways would be provincial in purpose, while higher numbers (especially 100s and 200s) would be regional or local in purpose. 300s would be entirely in northern Ontario and would replace all northern primary highways except for 11, 17 and the 400-series.

400 - 499: Controlled-access highways (as they are now)

500 - 999: Secondary and tertiary highways
* These would be local in purpose for the most part. 500s and 600s could be in northern Ontario to avoid renumbering, or a NW/NE breakdown. 700s would be in eastern Ontario, 800s in the Golden Horseshoe and 900s in southwestern Ontario.

[go_leafs_go02]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

How to redraw it would be to look at all county roads and provincial highways and renumber as follows:

2 - 399: Kings' highways
* The oldest/most important southern highways would get the lowest numbers for the most part. Generally, lower number highways would be provincial in purpose, while higher numbers (especially 100s and 200s) would be regional or local in purpose. 300s would be entirely in northern Ontario and would replace all northern primary highways except for 11, 17 and the 400-series.

400 - 499: Controlled-access highways (as they are now)

500 - 999: Secondary and tertiary highways
* These would be local in purpose for the most part. 500s and 600s could be in northern Ontario to avoid renumbering, or a NW/NE breakdown. 700s would be in eastern Ontario, 800s in the Golden Horseshoe and 900s in southwestern Ontario.

Since most municipalities co-operated and designated their downloaded portion of provincial highway to be of the same number as the previous provincial highway, it actually may be easier to re-instate most of the same provincial highway numbers prior to 1997, and then require any regions, counties or municipalities that have roads with a regional number the same as a provincial highway in the same region to renumber or remove the designation.

I know Elgin County for example renumbered some of their pre-existing county roads to something different so the number could be used on the downloaded highway portion.

For example. Essex County would get Highway 2 back, Highway 18 back, and Highway 3 would be reinstated east of Leamington. The existing county roads 2, 3, and 18 would need to be renumbered or removed.

E.C. Row expressway would then be designated again as Highway 2, and resume its routing right to the Quebec border. Upon entry into Canada in Windsor, you could have Highway 2, 3, and the 401 as options into the rest of southern Ontario.

All wishful thinking, but I would like to think it would be cleaned up eventually. Would be a lot of work, including address changes.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by go_leafs_go02

All wishful thinking, but I would like to think it would be cleaned up eventually. Would be a lot of work, including address changes.

Yeah, it'll cost hundreds of millions without much real utility, especially nowadays with things like GPS/Google Maps/Waze. Also, many people don't navigate by highway numbers but by street name and landmark (eg. "Take Robertson Road, then make a left at the Honda Dealership").

One thing I would like to see more of, though, is a concerted effort to label directions to major destinations, especially within cities.

For example, if you were to arrive at a major intersection, there should be signs that point to: Downtown, Some hospital (or other major institution), the nearest other municipality, and maybe the nearest 400 series highway, preferably all on the same sign board. This is the European approach to wayfinding.

[Acajack]

In Eastern Ontario, what used to be provincial Highway 17 is now County Road 17 in Prescott-Russell, then Ottawa Road 174 (often referred to as Highway 174) in Ottawa city limits for a while. Then it disappears completely when it merges with the 417 (OK, that's somewhat intuitive) and then finally you have Highway 17 that appears when the 417 ends at Arnprior.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Yeah, it'll cost hundreds of millions without much real utility, especially nowadays with things like GPS/Google Maps/Waze. Also, many people don't navigate by highway numbers but by street name and landmark (eg. "Take Robertson Road, then make a left at the Honda Dealership").

One thing I would like to see more of, though, is a concerted effort to label directions to major destinations, especially within cities.

For example, if you were to arrive at a major intersection, there should be signs that point to: Downtown, Some hospital (or other major institution), the nearest other municipality, and maybe the nearest 400 series highway, preferably all on the same sign board. This is the European approach to wayfinding.

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

If only we could get this great sign from France:

[go_leafs_go02]

Here's a nice little nugget from the 1999 Road Map of Ontario, that shows just how much of a mess the downloading was:


http://www.ontarioroadmaps.ca/index.php/...map/74-1999-official-road-map-of-ontario

The editor of the website also states:

In 1997 and 1998 the Ontario Provincial Government transferred ownership of numerous Provincial Highways to local municipal governments in an effort to economize and create a more efficient means to maintain the roads at a local level. As a result a large scale renumbering project was undertaken and a great deal of confusion was created for the traveling public.

The other interesting thing is the 1998 Ontario road map still showed all the downloaded highways from 1997 as provincial highways. It was changed in 1999.