PITTSBURGH | Development Rundown II

[BrianTH]

Aspinwall struck me as having nicer housing stock than Sharpsburg--although that is not a scientific opinion, just an impression from having looked at listings at various points in time.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Aspinwall struck me as having nicer housing stock than Sharpsburg--although that is not a scientific opinion, just an impression from having looked at listings at various points in time.

It's true enough. Aspinwall was set up to be a middle-class streetcar suburb. The housing stock in its heyday wasn't quite as nice as say Highland Park or Friendship (there's a lot more small frame houses, especially on the older western side of the borough) but it's clearly not meant as millhunk housing. That said, the borough did go through a period of relative decline when suburban-style houses were more fashionable, and has appreciated once again as this sort of neighborhood has come back into style.

[Private D]

Originally Posted by photoLith

That's really weird, by all accounts sharpsburg should be as nice as Aspinwall.

Aspinwall has always been wealthier than Sharpsburg.

Aspinwall was planned as a residential community for the middle class of the day... whereas Sharpsburg began as an industrial town.

[BrianTH]

Just general musings, but I also think it didn't take much in those decades of suburbanization for a core-area historic neighborhood to fall into a negative cycle. The core neighborhoods that held up the best were more exceptions than the rule, and most of those exceptional neighborhoods had some sort of down period too, just not as severe.

So personally, I'm not surprised Aspinwall historically did better than Sharpsburg, any more than Bloomfield did better than Lawrenceville for a long time (which was the conventional wisdom when I arrived here in the early 1990s). But conversely, I also don't think those relative relationships are fixed in stone given the new dynamic, as Lawrenceville has shown.

[Austinlee]

47 acres of prime riverfront land to be developed should blur the line between Aspinwall and Sharspburg and increase property values, I would guess.

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/ne...jor-stretch-of-allegheny-riverfront.html


Lol @ PA hyper-fragmentation:

The property stretches from the end of the Aspinwall Riverfront Park property to James Sharp Landing in Sharpsburg, about a mile and a half. About 24 percent is in O'Hara, 16 percent in Aspinwall and the rest is in Sharpsburg.

http://triblive.com/neighborhoods/yourfo...re/7708309-74/crookston-project-property

[BrianTH]

I think that project ran into some NIMBYism--hopefully it powers through anyway.

[BrianTH]

Yet another global investor has entered the Pittsburgh market in a big way by buying Liberty Center (minus the hotel) for $98M:

http://www.post-gazette.com/business/dev...sold-to-CBRE-Global/stories/201701060105

Some nice quotes in there about where Pittsburgh stands today in the eyes of the global community. I also think they are being pretty savvy to realize that upcoming developments in the Strip are likely to make that corner of Downtown all the more valuable.

Edit: Oh, and they are reportedly going to invest in renovating the plaza. Which is good, because it is an unattractive and dead space currently.

[eschaton]

First planning commission presentation of the year. Four new items.

1. Historic nomination for Rosyln Place, a semi-famous wooden street (seriously) in Shadyside. This is the last wooden street in Pittsburgh, and (IIRC) residents have chipped in their own money over the years to maintain it. I am guessing if it gains historic designation it means that the city will be precluded from paving it, and have to pay for upkeep costs.

2. Replacing the Big Heart Pet Brands signs on the North Shore with People's Natural Gas.

3. Exterior renovations to East Liberty Presbyterian Church's entry on Whitfield Street.

4. By far the biggest project - the Housing Authority is putting in for the replacement project for East Liberty Gardens, which has been shuttered now that all residents have moved to the new buildings along Larimer Avenue. It looks to be 150 units in 13 buildings. In addition, there are planned changes to the road pattern - connecting Station Street with Broad Street once again. The new layout will be a big improvement from an urban planning perspective, basically mirroring the nearby Fairfield Apartments and Larimer Avenue projects in overall scale, with most of the complex at townhouse/garden apartment scale, but two buildings along Broad Street at higher densities with mixed-use components. The design is blah contemporary, but I wouldn't expect anything better from a mixed-income development.

One final thought is it's a shame that Enright Court can't be redeveloped along with East Liberty Gardens. Unfortunately it went condo at some point, meaning it will be in its current location essentially perpetually.

[bradjl2009]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Aspinwall as it is today isn't as it always was. It used to be more downscale (albeit never as poor as Sharpsburg), but has been gentrifying over the last 20 years.

As for Sharpsburg itself, keep in mind until relatively recently there weren't that many middle class families who thought living in a small home with a tiny yard in gritty and poor neighborhood would be appealing - and most of those people would want to stay in the city, where the action was. People who cared about schools first and foremost would just pick a real suburb, not a mill town. Plus the elementary school that Sharpsburg feeds to isn't as "good" as the others in the district (which is because Sharpsburg kids go to it of course).

Aspinwall hasn't always been what it is now, but I feel like it always still was a step above Sharpsburg to many because of its bigger homes, more of a Victorian style, and it has more of a green/leafy feel as well. I knew kids who went to the FC school district and I did bring up the Sharpsburg thing to them in the past and they claimed it was overblown but in the same breath they said the Sharpsburg kids who did complain the most were the "trashy" ones. I do know a girl from Sharpsburg who went to FC and she didn't have those issues but she also didn't act or dress like the type of kids I know they were referring to when one other mentioned "trashy".

[AFW523]

I don't have a link, but supposedly the appeal filed on the Babyland property to convert it to an Autozone got denied. Thank God. I'd rather it sit there in the ghastly shape it is in now, waiting for a worthwhile project on a high-profile corner in a burgeoning neighborhood, than be turned into a setback, parking-in-front auto parts store. I don't know LG's portfolio, but when your revenue generation idea is "auto parts store in East Liberty down the street from the other auto parts store!" I have a hard time imagining how they financed the appeal in the first place. Maybe they'll try to woo KMart next.

[BrianTH]

Lots of cool old images and articles about the wood block paving system, if you are into that sort of thing:



Big Heart Pet Brands, we barely knew thee. Peoples Center is a big improvement--it almost looks like it could be some Euro-Socialist thing:



The proposed new entrance for the church looks pretty nice. Of course I still dream of the church eventually being surrounded by a Euro-style cathedral square:



Generally speaking I like the plan for the housing project. I particularly like having the larger apartment buildings lined up along Broad Street, which should really help improve that "gateway" into Larimer and provide yet more continuity with the core of East Liberty (note I think this is already a somewhat dated rendering--see below):



The concept for the extended Station Street looks solid too (and I still hope some day there can be some sort of connection over the Busway around where Station Street will terminate at Broad):



I agree the architecture falls short of inspired, but it is actually not necessarily worse than a lot of market rate stuff these days, and they have been thoughtful about things like corners:



And green elements:



Big picture, between this and the Pennley Park South bookending it on the other side of East Liberty, this would still be a ton of positive momentum.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by AFW523

I don't have a link, but supposedly the appeal filed on the Babyland property to convert it to an Autozone got denied.

Behind a paywall, but yep:

http://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/ne...s-court-decision-for-autozone-store.html

I don't care about the tenant, but that building/lot design was terrible.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by bradjl2009

I knew kids who went to the FC school district and I did bring up the Sharpsburg thing to them in the past and they claimed it was overblown but in the same breath they said the Sharpsburg kids who did complain the most were the "trashy" ones. I do know a girl from Sharpsburg who went to FC and she didn't have those issues but she also didn't act or dress like the type of kids I know they were referring to when one other mentioned "trashy".

My guess is if higher-SES families start moving into a gentrifying Sharpsburg, this won't be a significant issue for just this reason--this sort of thing is rarely about addresses per se.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by AFW523

I don't have a link, but supposedly the appeal filed on the Babyland property to convert it to an Autozone got denied. Thank God. I'd rather it sit there in the ghastly shape it is in now, waiting for a worthwhile project on a high-profile corner in a burgeoning neighborhood, than be turned into a setback, parking-in-front auto parts store. I don't know LG's portfolio, but when your revenue generation idea is "auto parts store in East Liberty down the street from the other auto parts store!" I have a hard time imagining how they financed the appeal in the first place. Maybe they'll try to woo KMart next.

Unfortunately right across the street (on parcels they also now own) a new automotive service place is replacing where Monroe Muffler was. I really thought they had higher hopes for these parcels, considering the scale of development just across the street.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

My guess is if higher-SES families start moving into a gentrifying Sharpsburg, this won't be a significant issue for just this reason--this sort of thing is rarely about addresses per se.

Except for a few enclaves like Heinz Terrace and the 1700 block of Middle Street, Sharpsburg's housing stock is pretty junky. Almost entirely remuddled small frame houses. Certainly worse than Lawrenceville, and arguably worse even than Millvale.

I do think Sharpsburg will get higher-SES families eventually, but it's more apt to be because young single people buy there and don't move out once they have kids. Or because childless gentrifiers have already changed the business mix enough to make the walkable business district outweigh the negatives of the housing stock.

[Austinlee]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Except for a few enclaves like Heinz Terrace and the 1700 block of Middle Street, Sharpsburg's housing stock is pretty junky. Almost entirely remuddled small frame houses. Certainly worse than Lawrenceville, and arguably worse even than Millvale.

I do think Sharpsburg will get higher-SES families eventually, but it's more apt to be because young single people buy there and don't move out once they have kids. Or because childless gentrifiers have already changed the business mix enough to make the walkable business district outweigh the negatives of the housing stock.

This 3 story red brick house was one of the ones I was helping with to rent. It was pretty decent and well built, but in terrible condition after the previous tenant quite literally trashed the house completely. The house across the street struck me at the time as not bad, a fenced in, corner lot home with a two car garage. But I can see what you're saying. Looking around on streetview you see a lot of very ugly housing areas.
https://goo.gl/maps/SpmuJrUwY4v

Here's one more example of a muli-unit house that had just been fully renovated. The gold/biege 3 story house - 3 units, 2 on the 1st floor and one on the second & 3rd floor. The weird exterior shape belies how nicely it had been updated inside. I rented either 2 or all 3 (i can't quite remember) units very quickly.
https://goo.gl/maps/aizwpGTJGuj

If you look around on Penn Street there was quite a few newer constructed infill townhouses.

[BrianTH]

I agree the houses in Sharpsburg often are not much too look at, but I seem to recall in my occasional looks there that a decent number of the houses are a decent size--3-4 bedrooms, 1800+ sqft and such. So size-wise those are potential starter homes for families--and I've seen flippers do a pretty good job prettying up the typical remuddled working-class-neighborhood frame houses around here.

And then there is the possibility of infill too.

[photoLith]

Is there any news if the bike trail along the Allegheny that ends just past Millvale will be extended up to Aspinwall and hopefully further than that eventually? When I first moved to Pittsburgh there were plans to make that extension but now 4 years later still nothing.

A sidenot, I randomly came across that wooden paved street about a year ago and posted a photo of it on my photograph page and it was my most liked and shared photo up til that point, I believe it got 10k shares and about 30k likes. The street however is already a Pittsburgh Historic Landmark...

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Austinlee

This 3 story red brick house was one of the ones I was helping with to rent. It was pretty decent and well built, but in terrible condition after the previous tenant quite literally trashed the house completely.

That appears to be a really good example of what I was trying to get at with my prior post. That's a 4 bedroom, 2 bath, 1954 sqft house (per the Allegheny County website). Inherently that is a viable starter home (heck, in some cities it would be a viable long-term family home), but obviously it would need to be in good shape, and in a "desirable" neighborhood. But it appears there are plenty more like it nearby, so that area would seem to be potentially viable, if you can get there from here.

Incidentally, I just toodled around Google a bit, and found this house up the block:

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4961618,...IiCrp_Fd9hkgC7A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

Toggling back to 2007, it looked like this:

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4961726,...gleLVK68iDPvWwZA!2e0!7i3328!8i1664?hl=en

Side views:

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4961781,...0!5s20160801T000000!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4961714,...e0!5s20070901T000000!7i3328!8i1664?hl=en

I don't know if that was flippers or not, but you can see how just some basic paint, trim, window-type work can really bring back some of these houses.

Edit: This one just down the street is probably too small for a family home, but that is an extremely charming renovation:

Today:

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4961459,...0!5s20160801T000000!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

Before:

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4961465,...e0!5s20070901T000000!7i3328!8i1664?hl=en

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by photoLith

Is there any news if the bike trail along the Allegheny that ends just past Millvale will be extended up to Aspinwall and hopefully further than that eventually? When I first moved to Pittsburgh there were plans to make that extension but now 4 years later still nothing.

We were just talking about the Riverfront 47 plan, and I know they want to incorporate such a bike trail in their parcel, which would then stretch from Aspinwall into Sharpsburg. I'm not sure however if there are active plans for connecting that to the terminus of the Millvale trail.